Rise of The Hutt Cartel: First Digital Expansion

[Kelimbror]

Oh yes, the ever so small and ever dwindling but highly vocal zealots are valiantly defending the practices on the forums

Not to be overly dramatic or insult the people that post here that actually have well reasoned minds and good intentions, but some of the people like you mention do sound like they are in a cult and have been brainwashed to repeat the same things over and over while throwing their money into a garbage bin.

I'm sure there's a psychological explanation for the behavior, we like to cry 'addiction' but I think it's more complex than that. It would definitely be an interesting thing to study, but it's not like it would be a revelation. People have been behaving the same way about *insert activity here* forever.

[Armourboy]

Oh yes, the ever so small and ever dwindling but highly vocal zealots are valiantly defending the practices on the forums with things like "it's just 10 dollars, mommy won't pay for you huh?" "circumstances change welcome to the real world, please grow up" "they never ever said makeb would be free".

The last is of course an outright lie in every sense of the word, the first is not only an insult but also a complete failure to realize peoples frustration about being lied to and charged for things they were led to believe they had in fact already paid for with their subscriptions. The second one is of course placing the financial burden of a company failure on its paying players. They will no doubt however soon notice that changing circumstances swing both ways and players will note that the circumstances that at least attempted to validate the existence of a subscription fee just aren't there anymore and act accordingly, upon which the zealots will accuse the dissatisfied players of "entitlement" and "impatience" along with the regular host of made up excuses in order to place blame anywhere but where it rightly belongs.

People not being fine with being charged for the pleasure of being deceived and lied to just doesn't seem sensible to some people.

Its going to end up like SWG, its head down the same path already. In the weeks following the NGE the player base split into two groups, those that were willing to accept anything, and those that were finally fed up and tired of being told to have patience while they fixed it. By the time it was said and done that was the same line we got too " just leave then " and then they all cried fowl when they discovered that they were the minority and 80% of the players did quit.

There will always be a group that will side with BioWare and stick with the game. BioWare/EA could raise the price to 30 bucks a month, charge them 60 bucks for one planet, and only turn servers on once a week and these people will still back them. It sounds crazy, it sounds like I'm exaggerating, the scary part is I'm not, I've seen it before.

[AlisonPrime]

I quit Swtor in early June. I had just finished getting a full set of Campaign gear and I had maxed out my sabers with Augmented slots and taking out all my mods, had a Stockpile of nearly 1 billion credits, and all my companions were in Full Rakata sets as we were farming those places as well on the hardest difficulty.

When Swtor went free to play I was like hmmm, I never did finish my Juggernaut's storyline, Why not, I will finish my 4 imperial characters.

I log on and first thing I notice is 9 out of my 10 characters were flagged for Name changes, No matter, I decided on a name for my Sith Juggernaut and low and behold "You have reached your character limit" ha....premade character inelegible for name change unless I sub...?

Oh well, I'll log on my Jedi Sentinel and have some fun....wait...why am I naked...why do I only have 250k in my bank....why are all my companions naked...was I hacked? Nope, I look all over on the forums Until I saw the FTP restrictions and I realized I lost 999,750,000 Credits, and All my gear was in my bags with the ineligibility to equip it, as well as all my companions gears, all my item slots were taken up by their gear. I then look at the cartel market, see how much it would cost to unlock this stuff. Not too expensive...Then I notice....I only have 100 cartel coins.

This was the final straw that drove me to uninstall. I own the Physical Collector's edition, I bought the most expensive version of the game and they promised me 1000 cartel coins for free + 100 coins for each month I subbed before. I put in a ticket with them and got a copy paste remark basically saying "sorry ma'am but fuck you, have a nice day"

Now I see they're charging us 10 - 20 dollars for a content expansion....yeah EA deserves its title of Worst Company Ever as voted by the internet in 2010.

[Boramir]

I'm curious about what happens to the subs cost for this xpac/patch after 1/7/13 when the pre-order deadline is over? Will subs have to pay $20 for it then and will it go up for f2p's also?

While the lure of getting an expac for only $10 is appealing (and I will probably get the xpac/patch at some point), I don't feel very confident agreeing to pay for something before I'm 100% sure I know what I'm getting. With all the xpacs I've purchased for wow over the last 5+ years, I've always known before I fully purchased it what was included in it (I usually pre-order those as well, but I can always get the $5 or $10 I put down on it back if I choose not to buy it; for the physical copy that is).

[RoninaThorstone]

I quit Swtor in early June. I had just finished getting a full set of Campaign gear and I had maxed out my sabers with Augmented slots and taking out all my mods, had a Stockpile of nearly 1 billion credits, and all my companions were in Full Rakata sets as we were farming those places as well on the hardest difficulty.

When Swtor went free to play I was like hmmm, I never did finish my Juggernaut's storyline, Why not, I will finish my 4 imperial characters.

I log on and first thing I notice is 9 out of my 10 characters were flagged for Name changes, No matter, I decided on a name for my Sith Juggernaut and low and behold "You have reached your character limit" ha....premade character inelegible for name change unless I sub...?

Oh well, I'll log on my Jedi Sentinel and have some fun....wait...why am I naked...why do I only have 250k in my bank....why are all my companions naked...was I hacked? Nope, I look all over on the forums Until I saw the FTP restrictions and I realized I lost 999,750,000 Credits, and All my gear was in my bags with the ineligibility to equip it, as well as all my companions gears, all my item slots were taken up by their gear. I then look at the cartel market, see how much it would cost to unlock this stuff. Not too expensive...Then I notice....I only have 100 cartel coins.

This was the final straw that drove me to uninstall. I own the Physical Collector's edition, I bought the most expensive version of the game and they promised me 1000 cartel coins for free + 100 coins for each month I subbed before. I put in a ticket with them and got a copy paste remark basically saying "sorry ma'am but fuck you, have a nice day"

Now I see they're charging us 10 - 20 dollars for a content expansion....yeah EA deserves its title of Worst Company Ever as voted by the internet in 2010.

You were so convincing up to this part.
All gear earned while subscribed is equip-able and has the tag "unlocked while previously subscribed"

[Kelimbror]

You were so convincing up to this part.
All gear earned while subscribed is equip-able and has the tag "unlocked while previously subscribed"

Thought that was highly odd myself. Maybe they had really bad luck and got fubarred. It wouldn't surprise me.

[RoninaThorstone]

Thought that was highly odd myself. Maybe they had really bad luck and got fubarred. It wouldn't surprise me.

Nah. I just looked at the post again.
"250k" credits? Not if he was a previous subscriber. He would have 350k.

This is just a guy who played a little, enough to know what rakata gear is, and created a story based off what he read about the f2p restrictions.

[AlisonPrime]

You were so convincing up to this part.
All gear earned while subscribed is equip-able and has the tag "unlocked while previously subscribed"

Wasn't when I first logged in, was that patched in?

[Kelimbror]

Nah. I just looked at the post again.
"250k" credits? Not if he was a previous subscriber. He would have 350k.

Math with 1,000,000,000 can be complicated. *shrug*

Wasn't when I first logged in, was that patched in?

No, it was not. It was like that from day 1, hour 1, minute 1, second 1.

So if you legitimately have this issue, you would need to contact support via email. I think that is the only option available to preferred players. It definitely should not be the case.

[RoninaThorstone]

Wasn't when I first logged in, was that patched in?

Nope. Launched like that.

Also, if you were logged in and tried to access your coins you would have been prompted with a message explaining that you have to resub for one month BEFORE DEC 20th to receive your collectors edition + months since august coins, something like "resubscribe now to receive your cartel coins!"

Not to mention the fact you don't even need them. If you had logged on and checked the GTN you would have seen a tab for "cartel items" and "unlocks" and "authorizations". While its sometimes difficult to get a good deal, you can acquire most the unlocks for cheap. It depends on your server of course.
I have about 70 dollars worth of unlocks that I didn't pay for. Kittyvicious's server is filled with people who don't understand the 350k cap so he had difficulty getting his. (I did not).

Its not a perfect system and I won't be supporting this game once mekab comes out. But you can critique the game within the confines of reality.
Trust me... There's a lot that is ACTUALLY wrong with this game.

[AlisonPrime]

Nah. I just looked at the post again.
"250k" credits? Not if he was a previous subscriber. He would have 350k.

This is just a guy who played a little, enough to know what rakata gear is, and created a story based off what he read about the f2p restrictions.

I had 250k Credits when I logged in, I didn't get the Cartel coins I was supposed to be Credited, I have no gear equipped. I took down Soa back when his platforms would always bug. I killed the pylon boss on Hard Mode when they would lock up all the time unless you timed your moves perfectly. Karaga's palace was a breeze, then EC on hard mode as well. I earned all the gear I gotten. Don't you tell me I never ever raided in Swtor previously.

I was around for the Rakghoul outbreak and farmed my ass off so I could get a Black Bladed Green saber crystal to go along with my Black Bladed Blue saber so I could continue my favorite look of one green and one blue. I farmed my daily quests to get my trinkets so I could disasemble them to get a chance at better trinket patterns.

I own the Physical collector's edition, I have that gigantic square box with the slip off cover, I have Darth Malgus sitting next to Count Douku and Darth Vader and Emperor Palpitine, I have my Authenticator still on a chain next to my desk with my WoW authenticator. I have my Jedi Log, I have my drawings of instilations like the Jedi Temple and such, I have my soundtrack which I removed and put into the blank holder in the Metal Collector's edition case.

Ever stop to think that "hmmm....maybe this is one of those cases where EA screwed someone and isn't fixing it...." Cause im sure those cases are REALLY rare right?

Edit: Also on my Juggernaut, I had full Legacy Gear and I had Armoring 22 and some 23 stored in the bank and I was worried i couldn't access that...wait how did I get 23 armorings If I never killed Soa or Karaga on the hardest difficulty....

[RoninaThorstone]

Don't you tell me I never ever raided in Swtor previously.

Ever stop to think that "hmmm....maybe this is one of those cases where EA screwed someone and isn't fixing it...." Cause im sure those cases are REALLY rare right?

First off, I didn't say you never raided. Even implied that you had.

Second, sure. Anything is possible.
However, I find it difficult to believe that in the past month you didn't get it fixed.

[Bizzaro Stormy]

I'm sure there's a psychological explanation for the behavior, we like to cry 'addiction' but I think it's more complex than that. It would definitely be an interesting thing to study, but it's not like it would be a revelation. People have been behaving the same way about *insert activity here* forever.

It was discussed earlier in the thread, but what it boils down to is a sort of bunker mentality. Defend something long enough, in a group of enough like-minded individuals, and suddenly you psychologically lose the ability to be rational about whatever it is you're defending. The official forums have become a bit of an echo chamber, as more and more people less emotionally involved have left the game, and what's left can't even post a topic that is slightly negative towards SWTOR without prefacing it with "how much I love this game" and ending it with "remember, I do really love this game."

And (again) this is a population that is primed and ready to pay relatively large sums of money in support of their new beliefs. And (again) that seems to be the point a lot of people are missing - EA will take any extra subscriptions it can get, but that's not what's motivating them at this point. EA is trying to find the upper limit for how much revenue they can capture from a dedicated subscriber base that has been drastically pared down to a small, bunker-mentality core. Can they, through various means, get these people to pay at least $30/mo? $60/mo? More? How much can they realistically expect before losing members from even this dedicated base? Because if they can consistently pull, on average, $60/mo from what's left of SWTOR, you can basically quadruple their current subscriber base whenever a numbers discussion comes up.

Long story short (too late) EA now has access to a group of players who, instead of just being interested in playing a video game, have made themselves actively interested in how much money they can pay EA. It's probably a product of the Star Wars IP as much as "bunker mentality" but the fact remains, there are a couple hundred thousand individuals who will use the flimsiest of reasons to pay EA more money, in addition to an industry-standard $15/mo subscription. All EA has to do is find the upper limit, and charge a little below that, and find a way to do so with minimal effort.

Granted, SWTOR cost a lot of money to make, and objectively failed to deliver when it lost a large majority of its player base, but what's left can still become a lucrative gold mine for the foreseeable future.

[Hyve]

$10 isnt a bad cost hell $20 STILL beats WoW Xpacs cost...

Not that I want to start a Game vs Game debate here, but you get a lot more in a World of Warcraft Expansion, then what is listed here. This list, as incomplete as it may be, just screams DLC / Paid Patch.

[Deleted]

but some of the people like you mention do sound like they are in a cult

You think? Case in point.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=575225

Author asks if people have bought the expansions, those that answer yes, did it as soon as it became available etc. are greeted by "it's the right thing to do" "just what I did" "great attitude" etc.

Those who provide answers that are found wanting (meaning no) are ridiculed, called poor, explanations are demanded and then in turn also ridiculed, called trolls because if they have unsubbed and are posting in the forum they are obviously on some anti-swtor agenda and are deliberately creating a "disturbance" (anything that isn't unicorns and flowers) on the forum. Message? Dissent is not allowed.

Quite frankly I have never ever seen anything remotely close to the magnitude of the SWTOR fanboys.

[Kelimbror]

Quite frankly I have never ever seen anything remotely close to the magnitude or the SWTOR fanboys.

Me either, but reading through some threads like that made me realize something. If I wasn't completely opposed to paying anything for this DLC, it's good advice to preorder as a subscriber and then cancel if you want to go F2P, but still play the new stuff. It will be just as restricted as now, but you do get to level and quest for a little bit.

That *might* be worth $10 to some people, though they should be giving it for free.

[Bizzaro Stormy]

You think? Case in point.

Author asks if people have bought the expansions, those that answer yes, did it as soon as it became available etc. are greeted by "it's the right thing to do" "just what I did" "great attitude" etc.

Those who provide answers that are found wanting (meaning no) are ridiculed, called poor, explanations are demanded and then in turn also ridiculed, called trolls because if they have unsubbed and are posting in the forum they are obviously on some anti-swtor agenda and are deliberately creating a "disturbance" (anything that isn't unicorns and flowers) on the forum. Message? Dissent is not allowed.

Quite frankly I have never ever seen anything remotely close to the magnitude or the SWTOR fanboys.

I doubt this is the case, but I really hope that some of those posters are actual EA employees who are attempting to foster an "us-versus-them" mentality. 10 years from now we could be treated to some sort of case study documenting how profitable a small-but-firmly-entrenched playerbase can be for a MMO, and what steps a company can take to generate such a playerbase.

Of course, I'd rather have companies make games that are fun to play, that the designers enjoy making, and where the bottom line isn't the paramount concern. Where content is more than gambling packs, where community interaction is a regular occurrence, where a company gets rewarded for hard work instead of for being manipulative. That being said, it's still interesting to watch EA milk what's left of SWTOR, and to see how far it can go.

The next step will be using the Cartel Market as an alternative to actual gaming as a method of gearing up. And people will complain like hell about it. But, people will also defend it, and rip on the complainers. In the end, I suspect SWTOR will lose a few more subscribers, but will offset those losses from the remaining subscribers who give themselves whiplash getting out their credit cards to buy top-tier gear.

I just hope EA doesn't move too far, too fast, and truly find a way to alienate the remaining dedicated playerbase. This is kind of a once-in-a-generation opportunity to experiment in this type of sandbox, and I'd hate to see it end earlier than it has to.

[Deleted]

You think? Case in point.
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=575225

Author asks if people have bought the expansions, those that answer yes, did it as soon as it became available etc. are greeted by "it's the right thing to do" "just what I did" "great attitude" etc.

Those who provide answers that are found wanting (meaning no) are ridiculed, called poor, explanations are demanded and then in turn also ridiculed, called trolls because if they have unsubbed and are posting in the forum they are obviously on some anti-swtor agenda and are deliberately creating a "disturbance" (anything that isn't unicorns and flowers) on the forum. Message? Dissent is not allowed.

Quite frankly I have never ever seen anything remotely close to the magnitude of the SWTOR fanboys.

To be fair it's often the same forum handles on both sides. If you follow the forums long enough you learn the names of those who will always defend the game and those who have always been critical. It's sad to see either extreme imo. It's not actually that high a number imo...it just seems so after a quick glance. Like many instances in life, the majority are moderates and then you have a minority of extremists on both sides of the spectrum. I believe that it has absolutely nothing to do with the product encouraging them. I'd bet moreorless the same 'spread' can be found in all other forums.

[AlisonPrime]

First off, I didn't say you never raided. Even implied that you had.

Second, sure. Anything is possible.
However, I find it difficult to believe that in the past month you didn't get it fixed.

I did put in a ticket, and I got some copy paste remark. At the time I was having fun with WoW and finally got exalted with every faction so I decided hey why not give all the free time I was gonna throw towards Pet Battles and such into Swtor and finish my Imperial Story lines. I couldn't so I just didn't really care enough if I was gonna get crappy customer Service.

Also you said, an I quote "This is just a guy who played a little, enough to know what rakata gear is, and created a story based off what he read about the f2p restrictions. "

it implies you think I was a casual player who just knew what Rakata gear was by looking at vendors. No I wasn't sir

[Kelimbror]

Like I said, if it bothers you enough just try to contact them via email. If they don't resolve your issue, report them to the BBB for fraud. There have been plenty of stories of people spending money or buying items and having nothing work properly. Yours is a very extreme case, but one that should definitely be rectified if they are a law abiding business.