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  1. #661
    Quote Originally Posted by slozon View Post
    You throw that out the window when you allow customization.
    No you don't, the race is already in game, the bulk of what was already a very minor job to begin with is already done, so at best they are charging people real money for minor changes like scars. There's no denying that.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-20 at 12:46 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    The only reason why it seems "easy" is because we have the character model already in the game. If you know anything beyond that, please share your knowledge but just because I think something to be easy doesn't mean that it actually is, especially if I have no idea about the technical part but I'm sure Kitty knows exactly how much manhour they would have to lift to introduce another species as he is so far above anyone else, he just has to know. Maybe it just takes that long because they need to modify all cutscenes in which you potentially should see a Cathar standing next to you?.... Who knows but I definately agree that the introduction of this species is in no way compensating for the time it takes them, wheter it takes so much time or not.
    By that logic they'd have to modify cutscenes based on every possible combination of gear. It's a model, and a camera, the model is easily replacable, the body structures are the same, animations are the same.

  2. #662
    Quote Originally Posted by Zokonorb View Post
    By that logic they'd have to modify cutscenes based on every possible combination of gear. It's a model, and a camera, the model is easily replacable, the body structures are the same, animations are the same.
    They still would have to replace the model for... how many cutscenes? As said above, I don't understand why it takes them so long as I don't know their "thinking" process behind. Maybe they are just deluding themselves how "awesome" we all think Cathar are going to be like that moron who said the life day speeder is "amazing". I don't know but coming up with the conclusion that they are generally stupid and have no idea what they are doing doesn't leave any space for a discussion.

  3. #663
    You had best pay up for cathar or the wookie gets it!

    But seriously. Many of the character models we currently have do not have helms that fit themselves to their heads.
    For example, my zabrack has horns! When I put a close fitting helm on, they disappear.

    Bioware could easily apply this to most of the other races. Helms don't clip would show on the character. Helms that show a lot of the head but clip would not show. Helms that cover the whole head would just "fix" the head to fit.

    If you spent the money on a race that can't wear a regular helm, you are probably going to choose to hide helm so you can see your characters race / show it off.

    How many npcs have we seen that are wearing helms that can't POSSIBLY fit on their heads? A lot. In fact many of the alien species. Their horns just magically disappear when they put on a baseball cap.

    Another solution? A "Cultural Armor Dealer". When you buy a race that can't wear helms, you get access to a moddable armor dealer (like the security key vendor). The vendor would have a bunch of cheap moddable armor that works with your unlocked races so you can get a helm that works for w/e. They would only have to make like 5 helms per race to calm people down.

    Ugh.

    Or they could threaten their customers.
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  4. #664
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    Another solution? A "Cultural Armor Dealer". When you buy a race that can't wear helms, you get access to a moddable armor dealer (like the security key vendor). The vendor would have a bunch of cheap moddable armor that works with your unlocked races so you can get a helm that works for w/e. They would only have to make like 5 helms per race to calm people down.
    I like that idea. However I'm almost sure that if they would setup a poll regarding helmets/ cloaks, more people wouldn't care for the correct helmet display respecting whatever the species may have on their heads but rather to have more different races. I still don't believe that we'll see wookiees etc. but there are so many "humanoid" species in Star Wars which would keep player happy and offer more diversity that it's not understandable to not have a single new race since the beginning of the game.

  5. #665
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    I like that idea. However I'm almost sure that if they would setup a poll regarding helmets/ cloaks, more people wouldn't care for the correct helmet display respecting whatever the species may have on their heads but rather to have more different races. I still don't believe that we'll see wookiees etc. but there are so many "humanoid" species in Star Wars which would keep player happy and offer more diversity that it's not understandable to not have a single new race since the beginning of the game.
    Why are they mutually exclusive?

    In fact, I was implying that such a vendor would facilitate "different" races. Biowares "reason" for not doing races is because its too "hard", in part because of armors not fitting "different" races well. That would be fixed by having a moddable armor vendor who sells armor that fits.
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  6. #666
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    Why are they mutually exclusive?
    They are not. They could be the same but this means that they would need to "work" even more to include a new race. I think people would be partially satisfied in having a different head (with no helmet) to signalise that they are playing a different race.

    However though they could start with such a vendor for Twi'lek and Mirakula as they are somewhat limited regarding helmets.

  7. #667
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    They could be the same but this means that they would need to "work" even more to include a new race.
    Yes, god forbid we expect a company to work for our money.

    edit: I mean, having helm options WITH new races would probably improve their popularity and thus sales. I can imagine people say "Ugh. Don't bother buying X race. You can't wear ANY helms. So lazy"
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  8. #668
    0r to go a super easy route they could use the code that blocks all helms from showing on qyzen. I have changed that toons helm MANY a times and he still does not show having 1, or they can go the route for khem where you see NO armor at all on him no matter how many times you change it out.

    I dont doubt that there are issues involved with making many of the other races but in the end for me its all about laziness. just for those 2 companions alone they have code built in to hide armor to not make them look silly. besides who it their crazy mind would want to see a wookie in full battle armor that goes a great deal way from their lore, at least as far as i have seen i NEVER seen a wookie in armor so make it where it wont show.

  9. #669
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    Helms that show a lot of the head but clip would not show.
    You guys keep saying "OR just not show them" like I didn't write that already.
    It was the same solution they had for miralukas for a long time.
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  10. #670
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    They still would have to replace the model for... how many cutscenes?
    It's the same goddamn model!

    They don't make a bajillion premade cut scenes based on various combinations of body types and facial features, unless they're quite literally dumber than a sack of doorknobs. Basically the model which the player has chosen performs a bunch of per-determined animations with the camera having certain per-determined positions while a per-determined sound record plays.

    There's nothing hard about implementing cathar, at worst it requires them to create facial details.

  11. #671
    Quote Originally Posted by Zokonorb View Post
    at worst it requires them to create facial details.
    They don't have to do that.
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  12. #672
    So since there is no more unique class stories (lazy) does that mean everyone will be getting the same companions from now on?

    Judging on how useful HK-51 is they may make newer companions more uniquely helpful which means we are probably gonna see even MORE clone companions running around....

    awful awful decision not to continue class stories.

    P.S. It is very lazy/stupid that they have somehow not managed to include the cathar race yet.
    Last edited by Argroth; 2013-01-20 at 08:14 PM.

  13. #673
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    They still would have to replace the model for... how many cutscenes?
    It's slotting a different model file into to the cutscene. They don't create individual cutscenes for each race, gender, body type, face type, hair type, armor ect. They create the cutscene and replace with whatever the player characteristics/gear is. So unless they have some ungodly complicated system, it wouldn't be a massive time investment to make sure that the new race worked with the existing ones. They've already done it by allowing the empire/republic races work cross-faction with legacy, so it's not as if it's something unheard of or a technical challenge.

    If it is a technical challenge, by all means they should tell us. That would make us much more understanding of the delay with getting this simple mesh swapped model in. Why is it such a challenge? People are more understanding if they get some information instead of silence.

  14. #674
    Bloodsail Admiral Jamos77's Avatar
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    Have BW specifically said that the Cathar were a challenge/expensive? Or did they generalize with 'creating new species is expensive/hard work'?

    Could it be that the Cathar was a 5 minute job and they think that the 'next' species (Itho, Togruta, Mon Cal etc) will be difficult/expensive. It wouldn't be the first time they mislead everyone (if I'm correct) but it just came to me so forgive me if they have indeed specified that the Cathar addition was arduous/costly.
    Last edited by Jamos77; 2013-01-20 at 10:42 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    There is plenty to criticize with the game and BioWares handling of it without resorting to exaggeration, so let's not do it : /

  15. #675
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamos77 View Post
    Have BW specifically said that the Cathar were a challenge/expensive? Or did they generalize with 'creating new species is expensive/hard work'?

    Could it be that the Cathar was a 5 minute job and they think that the 'next' species (Itho, Togruta, Mon Cal etc) will be difficult/expensive. It wouldn't be the first time they mislead everyone (if I'm correct) but it just came to me so forgive me if they have indeed specified that the Cathar addition was arduous/costly.
    Even so. As Alree points out, there are many other humanoid races that should be 5 minutes of work like the Voss.
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  16. #676
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    Even so. As Alree points out, there are many other humanoid races that should be 5 minutes of work like the Voss.
    I wouldn't say 5 minutes, but replacing the mesh files for existing body types shouldn't be extremely challenging. They don't have any additional doodlies to worry about (no tentacles ect.) that might clip with armor models. So I'm actually extremely curious as to what technical challenges they're facing that are causing the holdup, or what business reason there is for delaying it for so long.

  17. #677
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    I wouldn't say 5 minutes, but replacing the mesh files for existing body types shouldn't be extremely challenging. They don't have any additional doodlies to worry about (no tentacles ect.) that might clip with armor models. So I'm actually extremely curious as to what technical challenges they're facing that are causing the holdup, or what business reason there is for delaying it for so long.
    You never let me have ANY HYPERBOLE :P
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  18. #678
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    You never let me have ANY HYPERBOLE :P
    Well, you can either have hyperbole or zingers, and you seem to have chosen zingers. YOU CAN'T HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO, then you'd get the diabetes and that would be bad : (

  19. #679
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    Yes, god forbid we expect a company to work for our money.
    I don't expect anything from them anymore so yes... I consider them to "work" could be an argument to not do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    You guys keep saying "OR just not show them" like I didn't write that already.
    It was the same solution they had for miralukas for a long time.
    I was asking a while back if people generally would be ok with having "limited" customization for the ability of playing a "real" alien race. It somehow got derailed but I think to remember that people had no problem with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    If it is a technical challenge, by all means they should tell us. That would make us much more understanding of the delay with getting this simple mesh swapped model in. Why is it such a challenge? People are more understanding if they get some information instead of silence.
    Pretty please Bioware....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamos77 View Post
    Have BW specifically said that the Cathar were a challenge/expensive? Or did they generalize with 'creating new species is expensive/hard work'?

    Could it be that the Cathar was a 5 minute job and they think that the 'next' species (Itho, Togruta, Mon Cal etc) will be difficult/expensive. It wouldn't be the first time they mislead everyone (if I'm correct) but it just came to me so forgive me if they have indeed specified that the Cathar addition was arduous/costly.
    No matter what they said...

    - Cathar is not one of the races prefered by players
    - they take a non-prefered race as sample for future implementations of races
    - it takes them ages to implement it

    What I'd actually prefer is that Bioware gives out a list + a poll with all races they may be inclined to bring into the game and the one chosen by the community will be the one. Really don't see what's so difficult about it as Bioware can give the borders and still implement the community as the most important part, the one who makes decision which one to chose.

    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    I wouldn't say 5 minutes, but replacing the mesh files for existing body types shouldn't be extremely challenging. They don't have any additional doodlies to worry about (no tentacles ect.) that might clip with armor models. So I'm actually extremely curious as to what technical challenges they're facing that are causing the holdup, or what business reason there is for delaying it for so long.
    At this point, I don't really believe anymore that we'll see that much transparency.

  20. #680
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    No matter what they said...

    - Cathar is not one of the races prefered by players
    - they take a non-prefered race as sample for future implementations of races
    - it takes them ages to implement it

    What I'd actually prefer is that Bioware gives out a list + a poll with all races they may be inclined to bring into the game and the one chosen by the community will be the one. Really don't see what's so difficult about it as Bioware can give the borders and still implement the community as the most important part, the one who makes decision which one to chose.
    That sounds good in theory, it won't allow BW to sell you one race in the hopes to get more developed though. I thought it was fairly obvious at this point that they will milk it for what they can get away with, a product of not fixing the actual issues that made people leave in the first place and implementing a horrible free to play model, hence the need to push players to the store to get payed.
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