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  1. #681
    Warchief Razael's Avatar
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    I personally wanted Nautolans and was very disapointed they weren't in the game to begin with. Togrutas too to a certain extent.
    With their recent claims that its hard, and that Cathar need to sell well for them to bother to make them, i don't think we will see them at all.

  2. #682
    Blhahahha @ the first two whiners in this thread.

    95% of all expansions cost money in addition to your subscription...

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-21 at 11:03 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Argroth View Post
    So since there is no more unique class stories (lazy) does that mean everyone will be getting the same companions from now on?

    Judging on how useful HK-51 is they may make newer companions more uniquely helpful which means we are probably gonna see even MORE clone companions running around....

    awful awful decision not to continue class stories.

    P.S. It is very lazy/stupid that they have somehow not managed to include the cathar race yet.
    This guy. You have zero idea how much goes into creating a new companion, race, etc. You have zero evidence to support how lazy it may or may not be. You sir, are what I feel is wrong with video games. Who are you to minimize their work as lazy? I'm lucky that I get to live in Austin, and have met quite a few developers from SWTOR and even more fortunate to be in the industry as a whole. What they do, and what most designers cannot be considered lazy. In fact, please understand they only have so many hours in a day to do something, and time=money. Everything they do has a time cost attached to it, much like Car Mechanics. When you are in the land of Time=Money, you have to look at what you can sink the least time into, to provide the most impact.

    If you sink a ton of time into 1 thing, you better hope it pays off. Right now, as a company, they are better off playing time costs close to the chest, and really waiting to see how things pan out before they go on crusades.

  3. #683
    They are not "brazenly demanding" that the Cathar sell well before they add other races - they're stating the reality. Everything has to pay for itself from now on. The quoted dev post tries to explain a little why playable races are a ton more work than NPC races. You can see it yourself if you dump asset files and look at the dictionaries. All those animations, textures and sounds have to be developed (to AAA fit and finish) and tested exhaustively. It's a lot of work that has to be paid for, and they can't afford to throw money at anything that isn't going to make money.

    I would not expect the real "exotics" like Sullustan and Wookiee to make it as playables in this title.

    Still experimenting...

  4. #684
    Quote Originally Posted by Clattuc View Post
    they can't afford to throw money at anything that isn't going to make money.
    Clearly, they can.
    Why do I say this? Because the race they are choosing to invest in is cathar. Pretty much every poll puts cathar low on the totem poll of possible races.
    I could see them intentionally sabotaging new races by choosing an unpopular race, intentionally, and then when it doesn't sell well, turning to the player base and saying, "Sorry! Cathar didn't sell well so no new races."
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  5. #685
    Pandaren Monk WarpedAcorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    Clearly, they can.
    Why do I say this? Because the race they are choosing to invest in is cathar. Pretty much every poll puts cathar low on the totem poll of possible races.
    I could see them intentionally sabotaging new races by choosing an unpopular race, intentionally, and then when it doesn't sell well, turning to the player base and saying, "Sorry! Cathar didn't sell well so no new races."
    *picks up tin-foil hat* I think you dropped this. ~_^

    Seriously though, I think this is just another example of how retarded the people making the decisions are. I have a feeling that whomever is making the decisions there is not listening to the development staff.

  6. #686
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    Clearly, they can.
    Why do I say this? Because the race they are choosing to invest in is cathar. Pretty much every poll puts cathar low on the totem poll of possible races.
    I could see them intentionally sabotaging new races by choosing an unpopular race, intentionally, and then when it doesn't sell well, turning to the player base and saying, "Sorry! Cathar didn't sell well so no new races."
    Except, BioWare wants to make tons of money. Adding new races does exactly that. Why, you ask?

    1. People want to be other races, and will pay for them.
    2. It adds another level of replayability to their content. When you get new races, you have to start from level 1.

    In JUST legacy exp boosts alone, that's tons of credits or Cartel Coins, not to mention gear from packs to make your new guy look sweet. It goes on and on. Races are going to be something they'll want to do, if they like that money rolling in.

    (Spoiler Alert: They do.)
    Formerly known here as Nakaya_Kilrogg.
    I don't play Nak anymore, I'm not on Kilrogg, and
    I haven't played WoW seriously since the end of LK.

  7. #687
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdef View Post
    This guy. You have zero idea how much goes into creating a new companion, race, etc. You have zero evidence to support how lazy it may or may not be.
    I know considerably less goes into creating their new races compared to other MMO's. And comparing their races to other games which also ask me to fork out subscription fees, there's no way it can't come of as lazy. Especially when they now ask subscribers to pay for a patch that has been re branded as an "expansion", and the race in question what also advertised as a part of that, but now it suddenly isn't and they want everyone, including the people who subscribe to fork out cash for it on the side.

    So much for zero evidence I guess.

    That's not even touching the fact they've said if people don't buy this re-skinned model that was already in game there'll be no new races.

  8. #688
    Quote Originally Posted by Nakaya_Kilrogg View Post
    1. People want to be other races, and will pay for them.
    Imagine you start an ice-cream shop in your town.
    You are trying to pick your first 3 flavors to start out with.
    You make a poll to see what flavors the people in your town like.
    The poll results break down into: Vanilla, chocolate, rocky road, ect.
    The 55th flavor on the poll is macadamia nut and banana swirl with 5 votes compared to vanillas 6000.

    Bioware has essentially chosen to make macadamia nut and banana swirl instead of vanilla.
    Last edited by Bardarian; 2013-01-21 at 07:22 PM.
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  9. #689
    Bloodsail Admiral Jamos77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zokonorb View Post
    I know considerably less goes into creating their new races compared to other MMO's. And comparing their races to other games which also ask me to fork out subscription fees, there's no way it can't come of as lazy. Especially when they now ask subscribers to pay for a patch that has been re branded as an "expansion", and the race in question what also advertised as a part of that, but now it suddenly isn't and they want everyone, including the people who subscribe to fork out cash for it on the side.

    So much for zero evidence I guess.

    That's not even touching the fact they've said if people don't buy this re-skinned model that was already in game there'll be no new races.
    That is still zero evidence. Evidence isn't your opinion btw.

    GREED is what you are mistaking for lazyness. It nearly always comes back to greed (the desire to maximise ones income/profit). If they have 2 options (to do something or to not do something) they will often/always pick the option that benefits them more economically. It's not about lazyness.
    Last edited by Jamos77; 2013-01-21 at 07:44 PM.
    SWG - Jamus Divinus - Bria 2005-2011

    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    There is plenty to criticize with the game and BioWares handling of it without resorting to exaggeration, so let's not do it : /

  10. #690
    Okay, this whole "making new races" thing.
    If it is humanoid enough to use the same body model, all they do is apply a different mesh. The face is part of the skeleton, the body model, so they don't have to redo all the cut scenes or w/e. There is pretty much nothing that goes into it beyond fixing the character creation UI.

    Its, essentially, the same thing as swapping ink colors in MS paint.



    This is your character without the mesh regardless of race. (obv the swtor models are more detailed)
    Last edited by Bardarian; 2013-01-21 at 07:40 PM.
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  11. #691
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamos77 View Post
    That is still zero evidence. Evidence isn't your opinion btw.
    You got to be fucking kidding me, comparative analyzes is an "opinion" now?

    Other MMO's have races with different models, postures and animations. SWTOR have races which are re-skins, not different models, different skins on the same model, some being no more than blatant re-colours from pink to grey/blue etc. and placing that next to races with some actual differences between one another you're saying there's no evidence of lazyness?

    You clearly don't adhere to the same reality the rest of this planet if you don't consider that evidence of less effort being put into the races, it really is that simple, no if, but or "just your opinion".

  12. #692
    Bloodsail Admiral Jamos77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zokonorb View Post
    You got to be fucking kidding me, comparative analyzes is an "opinion" now?

    Other MMO's have races with different models, postures and animations. SWTOR have races which are re-skins, not different models, different skins on the same model, some being no more than blatant re-colours from pink to grey/blue etc. and placing that next to races with some actual differences between one another you're saying there's no evidence of lazyness?

    You clearly don't adhere to the same reality the rest of this planet if you don't consider that evidence of less effort being put into the races, it really is that simple, no if, but or "just your opinion".
    Maybe i'm misunderstanding the definition of lazyness.

    You don't think they made those choices to save money? My beef is with the term lazy. I've been asking for more species and better customization since June 2011. I just can't imagine the word 'Lazy' being used correctly in this case. Please correct me though as I love to learn.
    SWG - Jamus Divinus - Bria 2005-2011

    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    There is plenty to criticize with the game and BioWares handling of it without resorting to exaggeration, so let's not do it : /

  13. #693
    Just a friendly neighborhood reminder to please refrain from calling people names, it's not at all conducive to discussion.

  14. #694
    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    Clearly, they can.
    Why do I say this? Because the race they are choosing to invest in is cathar. Pretty much every poll puts cathar low on the totem poll of possible races.
    I could see them intentionally sabotaging new races by choosing an unpopular race, intentionally, and then when it doesn't sell well, turning to the player base and saying, "Sorry! Cathar didn't sell well so no new races."
    I strongly suspect that playable Cathar were partly to mostly completed in the pre-collapse months when staff was at full strength, and that's the only reason we're getting them with this first expansion. Hutt Cartel will have to be a pretty big hit, and lots of Cathars rolled, before they try again with Ubese or whatever.

    Still experimenting...

  15. #695
    Elemental Lord Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamos77 View Post
    I understand what you're saying but surely the Cathar customization options won't be too different to the human shapped form? Afaik Cathar have the same shape, size and posture as the humans. Also no facial appendages (Lekku, tentacles, giant BF trunks etc). We'll see when the Cathar are released but imo once we spend 1 minute playing around with the customization options we'll all ask ourselves why the process took so long and was so 'expensive'.

    It'll be hard to justify what BW said once the Cathar are released and we can all see the results. I very much doubt they'll answer those specific questions though post Cath-Launch. Now had they been working on Wookiees....(elongated forheads, no boots, no gloves) then I could have understood the whole 'more time and more money to make' argument. As it is I just don't see it.
    You could very well be right. I'm not really looking forward to Cathar myself.

  16. #696
    I would never have guessed Cathar in a million years. I could already imagine all the incoming cat jokes referring to a woman's anatomy, and naming in the general channel.

    2 money makers with 1 stone: New Class, AND an unlock to increase the ignore list!

  17. #697
    Quote Originally Posted by ariakul View Post
    unlock to increase the ignore list!
    If they charged for that, they'd probably get a lot more angry notes/forum posts than purchases.

  18. #698
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    If they charged for that, they'd probably get a lot more angry notes/forum posts than purchases.
    Shhh don't give them any ideas, never know where Bioware employees are, looking for more ways to make the game annoying (instead of doing actual work). I'm sure the only reason why F2Pers actually have the ability to ignore is because Bioware/EA simply forgot about it.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-22 at 04:33 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zokonorb View Post

    That's not even touching the fact they've said if people don't buy this re-skinned model that was already in game there'll be no new races.
    I'm not denying they said that. It would be their prerogative to say such stupid and scare tactic things instead of actually encouraging people by doing a good job on something....

    Anyways if they haven't covered up their stupid ways can I get a link/source on that? It's always good to have some more ammo against people who are too blind to see how bad a company is.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-22 at 04:44 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by tehdef View Post
    Blhahahha @ the first two whiners in this thread.

    95% of all expansions cost money in addition to your subscription...

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-21 at 11:03 AM ----------



    This guy. You have zero idea how much goes into creating a new companion, race, etc. You have zero evidence to support how lazy it may or may not be. You sir, are what I feel is wrong with video games. Who are you to minimize their work as lazy? I'm lucky that I get to live in Austin, and have met quite a few developers from SWTOR and even more fortunate to be in the industry as a whole. What they do, and what most designers cannot be considered lazy. In fact, please understand they only have so many hours in a day to do something, and time=money. Everything they do has a time cost attached to it, much like Car Mechanics. When you are in the land of Time=Money, you have to look at what you can sink the least time into, to provide the most impact.

    If you sink a ton of time into 1 thing, you better hope it pays off. Right now, as a company, they are better off playing time costs close to the chest, and really waiting to see how things pan out before they go on crusades.
    Avoiding the fact this has to be some sort of big joke (as if a reskin race that is already mostly in the game is hard...)
    Where is your evidence that is is so unbelievably hard that a multi million dollar company couldn't create a reskin model that is already in the game?

    Sorry I actually expect a company to work hard on a product instead of shoveling out the bare minimum. They did well over 10x the work making the game now all of a sudden on the expansion they wheeled it back to basically nothing. An update that was supposed to be free is all of a sudden an expansion.

    No matter what you say, I was asking a question. You didn''t answer it, you instead had to run to your lovers side and white knight for them (poorly) for no reason.

    I'll seek quality while you kiss up getting offended by people who want more then the bare minimum or at least the standard they got before....

  19. #699
    Quote Originally Posted by Argroth View Post

    as if a reskin race that is already mostly in the game is hard
    Just in case you aren't a designer who actually would know what he's talking about, this is just your opinion.... not a fact.

    Example.... each companion has X amount of animations for the class it is playing. A full fledge playable race needs to have all animations for all classes. That's just one thing I could think off why it's not just a "pressing the button and voila... a new race is born".

    Quote Originally Posted by Argroth View Post
    Where is your evidence that is is so unbelievably hard that a multi million dollar company couldn't create a reskin model that is already in the game?
    You have 0 evidence yourself. You and a lot of other people including myself have 0 idea what is their content plan. Why shouldn't they stretch this race if they can put more manhours into the "expansion"? MMO's are not like cars, where you could judge according to the speed/ design that the people behind are doing a good/ bad job (apart from the guys making decisions). How do you know that it's so easy with Hero engine to implement something like this? How do you know that it's not totally much easier with another game engine?

    Quote Originally Posted by Argroth View Post
    Sorry I actually expect a company to work hard on a product instead of shoveling out the bare minimum. They did well over 10x the work making the game now all of a sudden on the expansion they wheeled it back to basically nothing. An update that was supposed to be free is all of a sudden an expansion.
    I hate to bring it up but they never said explicit that this "expansion" will be totally free. (They did the usual... "biggest content patch in MMO history"... "never said it would be for free"..... Bioware thingy). They also made the statement (which you are refering to) before they implemented F2P.

    Quote Originally Posted by Argroth View Post
    I'll seek quality ....
    Which you seemingly can't find in SWTOR (as you stated over and over and over again)... you clearly are looking in the wrong place. Now as usually you may understand this as stfu but really... if someone tells you again and again and again that he doesn't like carrots, the smell of carrots, the look of carrots and the taste of carrots... what else than "well leave carrots alone then" could you advice that person?

  20. #700
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    Just in case you aren't a designer who actually would know what he's talking about, this is just your opinion.... not a fact.

    Example.... each companion has X amount of animations for the class it is playing. A full fledge playable race needs to have all animations for all classes. That's just one thing I could think off why it's not just a "pressing the button and voila... a new race is born".
    It's using the same skeletons, so all the animations are already in the game. I don't claim to know how it works for them, but my scant knowledge of development and what goes into changing mesh files/reskinning a character doesn't indicate that this is a process that would take professionals months of time to do.

    Again, I'm no expert, so if there are those with more expertise in the matter I'm happy to hear more informed opinions.

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