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  1. #41
    I saw this thread today and I decided that I'd see what type of legitimate damage holy could put out. I actually succeeded too!

    I have a holy profile that does 105593 DPS (which is only 3k behind Arms!)

    Couple of observations that I found while playing around with the profile:

    Halo is the only talent to use in single-target rotation, unless you're moving in which case the other two are okay.
    Glyphed SWD is a good choice for heavy movement.
    Chastise should only be used while moving
    ToF is about 3k ahead of PI
    This setup is extremely gear dependent. It's really easy to lose important stats if you don't have the right kind of gear.
    Trinket from Sha and from Elegon are best. (Didn't try out the new shieldwall one however)
    I actually had the most int/haste/crit using shadow 4pc which is great because having to refresh SWP less often is awesome.

    I haven't messed around with AoE or anything like that, though I plan to tomorrow.

    Chardev Profile: http://chardev.org/profile/16108-Holy-DPS.html

    Simcraft profile/APL:
    Code:
    #!./simc 
    
    priest="Holy DPS"
    origin="http://chardev.org/profile/16108-Holy DPS.html"
    level=90
    race=pandaren
    spec=holy
    role=spell
    position=back
    professions=blacksmithing=600/engineering=600
    talents=http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#XZ!001102
    glyphs=smite/holy_fire/shadow_word:_death
    
    actions.precombat=flask,type=warm_sun
    actions.precombat+=/food,type=mogu_fish_stew
    actions.precombat+=/power_word_fortitude,if=!aura.stamina.up
    actions.precombat+=/inner_fire
    actions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats
    actions.precombat+=/chakra_chastise
    actions.precombat+=/jade_serpent_potion
    
    actions=use_item,name=guardian_serpent_gloves
    actions+=/jade_serpent_potion,if=buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<=40
    actions+=/power_infusion,if=talent.power_infusion.enabled
    actions+=/shadow_word_pain,if=miss_react&(!ticking|remains<tick_time)
    actions+=/halo,if=talent.halo.enabled
    actions+=/shadow_word_death,if=active_enemies<=5&target.health.pct<20
    actions+=/mindbender,if=talent.mindbender.enabled
    actions+=/shadowfiend,if=!talent.mindbender.enabled
    actions+=/holy_fire
    actions+=/smite,if=dot.holy_fire.remains<cast_time
    actions+=/shadow_word_death,moving=1
    actions+=/holy_word,moving=1
    actions+=/divine_star,moving=1,if=talent.divine_star.enabled
    actions+=/cascade_damage,moving=1,if=talent.cascade.enabled
    actions+=/smite
    
    head=guardian_serpent_hood,id=87120,gems=burning_primal_80int_160spi_180int,reforge=mastery_haste
    neck=worldwaker_cachabon,id=87076
    shoulders=shadowsummoner_spaulders,id=87038,gems=160int_60int,enchant=200int_100crit
    back=cloak_of_overwhelming_corruption,id=90512,enchant=180int,reforge=mastery_crit
    chest=guardian_serpent_raiment,id=87122,gems=80int_160haste_80int_160haste_180haste,enchant=80all
    wrists=gleaming_moth_cuffs,id=86994,gems=160int,enchant=180int
    hands=guardian_serpent_gloves,id=87119,gems=160int,enchant=170haste,addon=synapse_springs_mark_ii,reforge=spi_crit
    waist=sorcerers_belt_of_final_winter,id=87179,gems=160int_160int
    legs=guardian_serpent_leggings,id=87121,gems=160int_60int,enchant=285int_165crit,reforge=mastery_crit
    feet=sandals_of_the_blackest_night,id=87162,gems=160int,enchant=175haste,reforge=mastery_crit
    finger1=watersoul_signet,id=90511,reforge=spi_crit
    finger2=fragment_of_fear_made_flesh,id=86949,reforge=hit_haste
    trinket1=essence_of_terror,id=87175
    trinket2=light_of_the_cosmos,id=87065
    main_hand=jinya_orb_of_the_waterspeaker,id=87170,enchant=jade_spirit
    
    # Gear Summary
    # gear_strength=80
    # gear_agility=80
    # gear_stamina=20270
    # gear_intellect=16840
    # gear_spirit=888
    # gear_spell_power=7907
    # gear_hit_rating=270
    # gear_crit_rating=6753
    # gear_haste_rating=9896
    # gear_mastery_rating=1701
    # gear_armor=14843
    # meta_gem=burning_primal
    # tier14_2pc_caster=1
    # tier14_4pc_caster=1
    # hands=guardian_serpent_gloves,heroic=1,addon=synapse_springs_mark_ii
    # main_hand=jinya_orb_of_the_waterspeaker,heroic=1,weapon=staff_3.30speed_6657min_9986max,enchant=jade_spirit

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Danner View Post
    Thanks Noradin, that is a very good omission that I did not take into account in my model!
    And one that IMO is important enough to warrant inclusion.

    Basically: the glyph allows you to have a HF cycle every 10 sec, but unglyphed only every 12 sec. Give or take with haste.

    This point should if anything however count towards making the glyph even better. By fitting in more HF cycles per minute, your DPS should go up!

    So if I say that the glyph is giving a very minor DPS gain without considering your point, and you rightfully call me out on saying that I forgot something that would make it even better... but conclude that the glyph is then worse... then my ghostbuster sense starts tingling

    I think you simply mixed up the cases.
    Ah yes, I had a feeling I had made a mistake in the calculation somewhere (as from my intuition I would have exspected the glyph to improve dps), but I did post it anyway since I had no more time to search for that error thinking someone else would find it anyway and faster than me to boot. I simply forgot one unbuffed smite in the calculation with the glyph (I used the extended circle without the glyph and left the non-extended one with 1s gap with the glyph). It just shows that the glyph is not strong enough to make up for wasting 1/10 of all the time you have to dps.

  3. #43
    I've pulled over 80k in LFR quite easily. The gear I was using was full spirit and mastery, stats that do nothing for Holy DPS. I think in shadow gear 100k+ is achievable, but it can't come close to a real DPS. The novelty wears off really fast though...spamming smite with the odd holy fire and SW:P gets old really fast. I don't think it can compete with a real DPS spec at all, but being able to drop a lightwell and pop a Hymn is nice.

    I've heard it's quite good for AoE though...even better than shadow.

  4. #44
    i don't see why people are saying holy dps will get nerfed....
    if you want to go holy dps then you have to gear for it to be effective... meaning LOW SPIRIT LOW MASTERY.
    we all know that holy priests that heal have huge mana problems when they don't have enough spirit.
    we don't heal as we're dpsing, thats disc.
    instead of shadows raid heal cd VE... holy has Divine hymn.
    shadow can switch back to dps mode any time.
    chakra has 30 seconds cd.

    holy heals and holy dps, they both have drawbacks, and different gear.
    i'd like one good reason why this should be nerfed?

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    Going to feel SO bad for this person when it gets nerfed, and yes, it WILL be nerfed. I don't think they want Holy to be a good DPS and allow great healing.
    yup soon as shadow complains a holy priest beat them on dps, they will nerf it, they wont allow people to competitively dps without needing any hit thats just unfair on dps classes, free 5100 stats if u dps as a healer as well as imba off heals.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    yup soon as shadow complains a holy priest beat them on dps, they will nerf it, they wont allow people to competitively dps without needing any hit thats just unfair on dps classes, free 5100 stats if u dps as a healer as well as imba off heals.
    technically you dont need any hit at all.. you'll just miss 15% of the time..... and holy does need hit, if they expect to hit every time with Pain, death, chastise, fear..... does mind sear miss if you have a friendly targeted?

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Alenoria View Post
    does mind sear miss if you have a friendly targeted?
    The channel always successfully casts, but individual ticks will miss. It's better than targeting an enemy where the channel itself can miss.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Alenoria View Post
    tand holy does need hit, if they expect to hit every time with Pain, death, chastise, fear.....
    This is completely untrue.

    Contrary to what the tooltip says, the effects of Divine Fury increase the Hit % for your character on all offensive spells by 15%.

  9. #49
    The Patient Aica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alenoria View Post
    technically you dont need any hit at all.. you'll just miss 15% of the time..... and holy does need hit, if they expect to hit every time with Pain, death, chastise, fear..... does mind sear miss if you have a friendly targeted?
    Check out your hit % when you're holy. Divine Fury now just gives 15% hit flat.
    {[( )]}

  10. #50
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    For 5.2 it looks as if they're planning on changing the Holy Fire Glyph to remove the instant cast and extending the range by 10 yards. That also applies to Smite and Power Word: Solace.
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    It's a magical world, Hobbes, ol' buddy...let's go exploring!

  11. #51
    97k on empress LFR, and 110k on protectors LFR. Since my guild quit raiding I didn't get to test it in our farm runs, hopefully my new one will let me, if I ever get one.
    (496 ilvl)
    Druid // Muffinfetus - Priest // Agascha - Shaman // Healwithit - Warlock // Intimate - Rogue // Schylla

  12. #52
    Scarab Lord ringpriest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oplawlz View Post
    That's . . . actually pretty cool. If bliz doesn't immediately nerf it for being unintentionally fun I might lvl my priest and give it a whirl.
    Expect an incoming nerf asap. Modern Blizz hates it when players come up with something fun and effective that the devs didn't intentionally design into the game.

  13. #53
    Regarding nerfs to the smitespec:

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    @TwintopTahoe All the people comparing Holy to Shadow seem to be ignoring the fact that Holy is also beating a lot of non-priest DPS specs.
    Source: https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...76626684391424

    Yeah, I think we can safely say this will come. The question is of course how.
    Knowing blizzard, they will probably add a six second cooldown on smite or something :P
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  14. #54
    Or they'll remove Evangelism for Holy and make sure that Divine Fury doesn't actually work with Shadow spells, just like the tooltip says.

  15. #55
    Removing Evangelism is absolutely the most obvious fix. Guess we'll find out over christmas!
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  16. #56
    Or they could just nerf the chakra. 50% was obviously excessive. Btw what was the reason for the buff from 15% to 50% anyway?

  17. #57
    This is new and fun, but all the talk about it *needing* nerfed seems silly. It's sub-par DPS compared to shadow, and if you gem and reforge to use it in raids, you're going to be very sub-par with healing. It's just a fun thing to try out once or twice.. not something I'd ever gimp my raid on progression content by using.

    It's nice for priests that don't have a shadow OS while doing dailies, though.

  18. #58
    If it's even slightly close to real dps specs, while offering a decent healing when needed, it will get nerfed. Chastice Chakra makes Smite/Holy Fire almost free, so you can basically spend entire mana on healing, switch to red, keep shooting - keep repeating as needed. Or do it in some other way, doesn't really matter. Sure it doesn't provide Atonement healing like Disc - but it offers significantly better numbers. Also, Lightspring doesn't cost you anything and Divine Hymn is only few seconds - especially with haste stacking.

    What was that few posts ago? Almost same dps as arms? Sure it's one of lower specs, but come on, that's just wrong.

    No one really complained about it, since Holy is completely outclassed by Disc, but if the healing part gets fixed, the dps will become a problem.

  19. #59
    I think there is some design issue around chakra:chastise.

    Rule #1: No healing spec is allowed to do even remotely good DPS
    That's just "how it is". Healers aren't allowed to play on remotely equal terms with DPSers. Tanks are (if taking damage), but not healers. This is more a tradition thing than anything else. Healers are support. In a game where support is no longer really appreciated.

    Rule #2: Chakra:Chastise allows you to trade away healing and do decent DPS
    IMO Chakra Chastise is the only chakra stance that actually works. It allows me to do dailies as my healing spec. It was only a matter of time before someone opened pandora's box and tried the same setup for raiding.

    These two design principles go against eachother. Which design should we go towards here? Only Blizzard knows the answer, but given GC's twitter I would say #1 weighs the heaviest. We will see what happens. But it's quite a tricky problem this!

    --

    The combination of the awesome burst healing capabilities of the holypriest (Cascade/Halo, CoH, FDCL, Lightspring, Divine Hymn), coupled with good damage (Chakra:Chastise, Inner Fire, Smite Glyph, Evangelism, gearing for no mastery/spirit) makes Holy pretty decent at both options at the same time, while raiding. The healing cooldowns really help out when the boss lays a smackdown and allows the priest to heal at roughly half the HPS of other healers. And the DPS is far better than a half/half hybrid healer/dps spec. Effectively the hpriest offers more than 1 raider's output right now.

    How can you change that? If you need to change it, that is (which I assume you do, since rule #1 is so important).

    Sure, you can remove Evangelism for holy. I think this will happen. It should reduce Holy's DPS by 20% or so; so instead of seeing ~100k DPS logs, we will be seeing ~80k DPS logs. That's.... not going to change much. I claim that pandora's box has been opened, and people will keep on trying to make a viable smite spec. And they will still succeed; very few players out there have a perfect gear setup for holy DPS right now. That will happen eventually, and the loss of evangelism can be countered by simply picking up better gear.

    They can also remove the smite glyph. That's another 10% DPS or so, taking us down to ~70k (roughly!). Still not going to change much. Holy will still offer more than 0.5 healers + 0.5 dpsers worth off value. Though we are getting there I guess. But as a consequence you also nerfed atonement for disc.

    They can revert the Chakra:Chastise buff back to 15%. But then we are back to the reason they had to buff it in the first place. Those 70k is now way down to 50k, which is acceptable. But... that 50k DPS is in perfect gear and given all raidbuffs. Most people won't have that. As a result, most people's smites will hit for ~17k and the quest bosses still sport some 1.7 million HP. Frankly, that is going to take too long to be remotely fun. As a healer you will run OOM outhealing the questboss' damage before you chip the boss down, even if your smites are almost free. So this solved the raid problem, but removed a whole spec from most of the game as a side effect. I don't think that is considered a success.

    They can take chakra back halfway I guess. There should exist a point where questing is only painful (but not unbearable) and raid DPS is only semi-viable (but not really powerful). I would have to question whether a design principle based on the game being painful to play is a good one though! Then again, if Hpriests are supposed to be martyrs whose main forte is to be good at dying, why not make our life more miserable? I jest.

    They can do something silly like lowering the effect of Chakra:Chastise in PVE raids or groups. If they can lower healing in PVP, they can lower damage in PVE. Very inelegant, but possible. Bye bye smitespec, and you get to keep your smite DPS (or parts of it) for quests. Gotta say I hate it for its inelegance though.

    You can always look at it from the other angle. The DPS isn't really a problem by itself. The problem is that hpriests can heal pretty well while doing that DPS. Change all that burst to not be available in chakra:chastise, and then look at the problem differently. In chakra:chastise you're not a healer. You're a DPSer.

    Or you know... kill chakra and solve all the problems in the world in one swoop.
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  20. #60
    :OOO i have 489 ilvl pure shadow gear with full haste and nice crit..i am going to test holy dps right now that would be so much fun XD

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