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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Mûe View Post
    There is no issue! People like to raid 25man? Fine. People like to raid 10man? Fine. Does there need to be a difference in gear? No. Will dedicated 10man raider feel forced to raid 25man again? Yes.

    Why can't people just get this?!

    If you are willing to put up with the RL and ingame crap of 25+ other people than FINE! Do it for god sake... Noone has a problem with that. If you are occupied more than enough with the RL and ingame crap of 10+ other people than FINE! DO this...

    Conclusion: Everybody is happy!!

    Reality: 25man "elititst" Guilds blaming 10man to be easier, take away the epicness of a raid, etc.

    I honestly wish they would take aways one or the other raiding type and end this freakin discussion. I wouldn't even care which one they take away....
    TO SEE if it will fix the 25 man issue, whether you believe in it or not. I hope you get an infraction for trying to turn this into a 10v25 flame thread.

  2. #22
    The issue is that 25 man guilds are struggling to exist.

    Also this will never make it to EU servers, so nobody cares.

  3. #23
    The Patient Mûe's Avatar
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    TO SEE if it will fix the 25 man issue, whether you believe in it or not. I hope you get an infraction for trying to turn this into a 10v25 flame thread.
    I hope you learn to read and manage to see that I dint flame anyone or anybody. You can clearly see that I am happy with both raiding solutions

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Mûe View Post
    I hope you learn to read and manage to see that I dint flame anyone or anybody. You can clearly see that I am happy with both raiding solutions
    Then fix the quote of me which you know will be taken out of context by people who don't read every post in the thread.


    All I want to say on the 25 issue is that with the ilevel increase my guild and nearly every other one has had an abundance of recruits applying, which has solved recruitment issues. Bosses feel a BIT harder, but not much. It feels good.
    Last edited by iggie; 2012-12-19 at 01:13 PM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by traen View Post
    Well, Blizzard said "We know that asian players prefer more hardcore raiding so we gave them bosses with increased difficulty and better loot".
    You are european/american? Well, it means that you do not prefer hardcore raiding and don't want better loot. Blizzard knows better than you what you want and what you don't want. Shut up and go clear your 10mans.
    I know you're being sarcastic, but... Yeah. Yeah they actually do know what 'you' want better than you do.

    Or rather, they know what the playerbase in general wants better than you do. On an individual basis, yeah, sure, there'll be a few westerners who'd love the changes to the Asian version of WoW. But overall, taking into account the entire community? No thanks. Not at all. Remember the ridiculous backlash against T9 and feeling forced to clear it 4 times a week? Or hell, in ICC and Ulduar, needing to clear those twice a week was bad enough. A lot of people really didn't like that over in the west.

    That's what Blizzard knows about. They've heard the feedback from a far more significant portion of the community than you ever will, so actually do know better what the community wants; or perhaps what is best for the community?

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Mûe View Post
    There is no issue! People like to raid 25man? Fine. People like to raid 10man? Fine. Does there need to be a difference in gear? No. Will dedicated 10man raider feel forced to raid 25man again? Yes.

    Why can't people just get this?!

    If you are willing to put up with the RL and ingame crap of 25+ other people than FINE! Do it for god sake... Noone has a problem with that. If you are occupied more than enough with the RL and ingame crap of 10+ other people than FINE! DO this...

    Conclusion: Everybody is happy!!

    Reality: 25man "elititst" Guilds blaming 10man to be easier, take away the epicness of a raid, etc.

    I honestly wish they would take aways one or the other raiding type and end this freakin discussion. I wouldn't even care which one they take away....
    If you want progression on 10 than you won't feel forced as going for 25 gear is just to overgear everything. Stop making assumptions for the rest of the community.

  7. #27
    Immortal Ryme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by traen View Post
    You are european/american? Well, it means that you do not prefer hardcore raiding and don't want better loot. Blizzard knows better than you what you want and what you don't want. Shut up and go clear your 10mans.
    As evidenced by the last expansion's hemorrhaging subscription numbers, right?
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarac View Post
    If you want progression on 10 than you won't feel forced as going for 25 gear is just to overgear everything. Stop making assumptions for the rest of the community.
    You, and the other people stating this is testing for 25man balance in EU/US are the reason this thread will turn into a 10vs25 flamewar, not the people who take your bait.

    Blizzard stated that they aren't bringing this across - the sole reason this makes is the fact that asians playing more = asians paying more on their sub model. Nothing to do with your precious 10vs25 balance.

    The reason 25man is buffed overthere is because they want you to feel forced to run it, so you do more hours per week. It's not to balance it out.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    As evidenced by the last expansion's hemorrhaging subscription numbers, right?
    Same thing everything expansion. They lose more subs in US ane EU and then make up for it in China etc. Why you think were in Pandaland/asia this expac?
    http://i5.minus.com/iT9gBOC94PbmU.jpg
    NON SINE DIIS ANIMOSUS INFANS
    Quote Originally Posted by PRE 9-11 View Post
    Accessibility, ownership, availability; these are all essentially the same thing.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    Same thing everything expansion. They lose more subs in US ane EU and then make up for it in China etc. Why you think were in Pandaland/asia this expac?
    ej, bro. we are still waiting for that screenshot from your WF protectors hc elite kill.

  11. #31
    Since players seem to have short memories I will remind them how we got to this point.

    1. Players could raid TOC 10, 25, 10 heroic, and 25 heroic in a single week, unless my memory fails me.
    2. Players complained that they were "forced" to run the raids as much as possible and were getting burned out.
    3. Blizzard put normal and heroics of the same size on the same lockout.
    4. Players then started complaining that they were burning out from running 10 and 25 man in the same week and demanded Blizzard do something.
    5. Blizzard realized that the problem was in a place they could not access, somewhere between the back of the chair and the front of the keyboard.
    6. Blizzard put everything on one lockout and prepared for the wave of whining that was to come.

    We have one lockout because we as players refused to take responsibility for our own raiding choices. As so we come to this discussion, sort of like a snake eating its own tail.

  12. #32
    Immortal Ryme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    Same thing everything expansion. They lose more subs in US ane EU and then make up for it in China etc. Why you think were in Pandaland/asia this expac?
    Evidence for this? I see only the counter.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  13. #33
    China was bleeding subs bad before MOP and yes we are on a per minuet payment system, so more raids/things to farm is beneficial for their Chinese affiliate. A typical 2.5 day time card (60 hours of playtime) is 22~ yuan, roughly $3.5. I have guildies who buy one a month or less.

    THIS IS A TEST. They don't want to risk the NA/EU player base on drastic changes until they see the results.

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