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  1. #1

    MM now top ST DPS?

    Hey everyone, was just checking simcraft, and its displaying MM about 400 dps higher than BM. Has anyone tested this out recently, and if so, is it true?

  2. #2
    No..

    10chars

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  3. #3
    Pit Lord Bryntrollian's Avatar
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    So MM is still terrible ?
    Synek - best rogue in the world
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  4. #4
    Bloodsail Admiral Help ol Gil Out's Avatar
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    MM is still one of the worst, if not the worst, DPS spec in the game and I cry a little whenever I see level 90 MM Hunters looking for raids outside of LFR.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustweaver View Post
    MM is still one of the worst, if not the worst, DPS spec in the game and I cry a little whenever I see level 90 MM Hunters looking for raids outside of LFR.
    Basing that on what ? I haven't tested it myself but i've heard it's now very close to the other specs and have seen no proof that it isn't.

  6. #6
    http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overa...14/30/default/

    There's your basis. That's 10 man normal for the past two weeks. Heroics aren't even accurate due to less than 1% of the sample size. If it was that good, people would be using it.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...&e=1169#Krunok

    Further proof. The absolute highest dps I could find from a mm hunter on feng normal, which is about as patchwerk as it gets.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Asher13 View Post
    http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overa...14/30/default/

    There's your basis. That's 10 man normal for the past two weeks. Heroics aren't even accurate due to less than 1% of the sample size. If it was that good, people would be using it.
    I do also think that MM is not as good as BM or SV, because it can't beat BM in single/burst or SV in AoE, i.e. it has no niche where it beats out any of the two speccs.
    but you can't compare the "latest logs" when you have such an underrepresented specc as MM, because there are many effects that make it look worse than it is, for example the very best players won't be playing it, but maybe one or the other casual (unfair comparison). and as not many play MM full time, but maybe once for a change or to get logged in WoL, you don't see many really expierenced MM players that know there specc perfectly. there's just less theoretical knowledge and practice for the MM specc atm. thus it is lowest, even if 5.1 had brought it nearly up to BM level. (which I don't know, haven't testet it myself yet)

  8. #8
    The Lightbringer Joyful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asher13 View Post
    http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overa...14/30/default/

    There's your basis. That's 10 man normal for the past two weeks. Heroics aren't even accurate due to less than 1% of the sample size. If it was that good, people would be using it.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...&e=1169#Krunok

    Further proof. The absolute highest dps I could find from a mm hunter on feng normal, which is about as patchwerk as it gets.
    This actually doesn't mean anything. It only shows the "Highest dps from a hunter that decided to go MM on a fight".

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustweaver View Post
    MM is still one of the worst, if not the worst, DPS spec in the game and I cry a little whenever I see level 90 MM Hunters looking for raids outside of LFR.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...%A9kaie/simple

    Feed me your TEARS!

    EDIT: I know raidfinder isn't a place to compare dps, but i had 114k dps on Amber shaper in there, with a better geared BM hunter at 89k, and a bit worse geared survival hunter at 60-something k dps.
    Last edited by Garkanh; 2012-12-18 at 07:36 PM.

  10. #10
    The Patient Tuzantar's Avatar
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    Yeah... No. MM is complete garbage.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Joyful View Post
    This actually doesn't mean anything. It only shows the "Highest dps from a hunter that decided to go MM on a fight".
    Yeah exactly. Went to the guy's armory and his gear is atrocious, not a very good sample. Don't think MM is any good still, but its definitely not as bad as people are saying.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H3-N9zoI5c Amazing video of 60+ devilsaurs raiding Undercity!


    My God, what a horrible creation. People seeing what they want? Thank God they tried to shy away from that. I know it pisses me off when I'm in an heroic raid, yet in the back of my head all I can think is 'some casual player is playing a heroic dungeon and not wiping.' -Vodkarn

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Garkanh View Post
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...%A9kaie/simple

    Feed me your TEARS!

    EDIT: I know raidfinder isn't a place to compare dps, but i had 114k dps on Amber shaper in there, with a better geared BM hunter at 89k, and a bit worse geared survival hunter at 60-something k dps.
    Log please, so we can confirm is wasnt amber strike spam that gave you the dps.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Drayarr View Post
    Log please, so we can confirm is wasnt amber strike spam that gave you the dps.
    i don't use logs, simply because i don't know how to.

    but i didn't got turned in to a mutated construct at any time during that fight.

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Joyful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garkanh View Post
    EDIT: I know raidfinder isn't a place to compare dps, but i had 114k dps on Amber shaper in there, with a better geared BM hunter at 89k, and a bit worse geared survival hunter at 60-something k dps.
    All that tells us is they were worse player than you.

    Oh and also:
    Amber Strike
    Melee Range
    Instant 6 sec cooldown
    Deals 332500 to 367500 Nature damage to the current hostile target, and interrupts normal spellcasting, as well as a target's attempts to trigger an Amber Explosion. Amber Strike also destabilizes the target, increasing damage taken by 10% for 15 sec.

  15. #15
    Read above post ^^ didn't got turned in to a minion, so couldn't use amber strike.

    anyhow, according to world of logs, MM is still far behind, even at the fight where i outperformed a similar geared BM hunter. maybe he just wasn't werry skilled.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Asher13 View Post
    If it was that good, people would be using it.
    That's a really bad argument. 99% of players don't use what's good, they use what other people tell them is good.

    That said, I suspect MM is still a solid 5k behind on most fights.

  17. #17
    The Lightbringer Joyful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garkanh View Post
    Read above post ^^ didn't got turned in to a minion, so couldn't use amber strike.
    I will re-link the important post

    "increasing damage taken by 10% for 15 sec."

    Meaning the target that OTHERS attack will take more damage.

  18. #18
    First: Lolsimcraft. Seriously, it took them 8 months to realize Serpent Sting was screwed up even though World of Logs reported data that wasn't even a close approximation to what simcraft was reporting?

    Simcraft can be a useful tool, but it's not produced by Blizzard and doesn't always have correct and up-to-date mechanics. What I stated above is a perfect example of this. Simcraft should never be the basis of a "theory". You shouldn't be linking simcraft results to say something contradictory to the norm then telling others it's their responsibility to disprove your findings with data. If you think the norm is wrong, it's your job to disprove it, not others to maintain it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garkanh View Post
    Read above post ^^ didn't got turned in to a minion, so couldn't use amber strike.
    There are certain fights in the game where poor overall raid DPS makes people who have a clue look amazing. DW was one so are Elegon and Amber Shaper. Poor overall raid DPS leads to competent DPSers having high uptime during extended vulnerability phases, inflating their numbers.

    Take into account the following:

    You could have lined up rapid fire/stampede perfectly with high stacks of the debuff late in the fight and they didn't.

    They could have been turned and failed at understanding how the mechanics work.

    They could have died.

    They could just suck at playing a hunter.

    Considering this was in LFR. I'd expect the worst case of a combination.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Joyful View Post
    I will re-link the important post

    "increasing damage taken by 10% for 15 sec."

    Meaning the target that OTHERS attack will take more damage.
    well, i doubt i was the only one in the raid the get use of that, but well, won't try and argue it...

    and again, yes, MM is behind, but its not TERRIBLE, if played right it do pretty decent damage.

    would like to know how to make logs from a raid to post though.

  20. #20
    The Lightbringer Joyful's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garkanh View Post
    well, i doubt i was the only one in the raid the get use of that, but well, won't try and argue it...

    and again, yes, MM is behind, but its not TERRIBLE, if played right it do pretty decent damage.

    would like to know how to make logs from a raid to post though.
    No but one part of your posts tells you did x dps, I told you why. The other part, why you did more dps than the other hunters I also explained, you are a better player than they are.

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