World First Elite Protectors!

[Jeremypwnz]

While world first is world first, the thing I have a problem with is a serious nerf to a fight before a reset. They only killed the fight cause of the nerf while US/EU had already cleared the places.

Blizzard should have waited till after the reset today to make the nerf live.

Their best attempt pre-nerf was 6%, they would have gotten the kill eventually.

[Deleted]

they also had 5 mages... and if thats a damage meter on the right side of the screen, then yes 5 of those priests were shadow.[COLOR="red"]

This takes class stacking to a new level. Blizz really dropped the ball on class balance this time.
Just goes to show how overpowered Fire Mages still are, and Shadow priests too. Both of those specs need a serious nerf.
Yes, Fire mages need another nerf, it's ridiculous that they scale way better than any other class. Reduce Critical Mass crit bonus down to 1.1 already, that's more than enough.
What are the others? Feral Druids, Survival Hunters and Affli Warlocks most likely, as they're known to be too high as well.

[Janir]

This takes class stacking to a new level. Blizz really dropped the ball on class balance this time.
Just goes to show how overpowered Fire Mages still are, and Shadow priests too. Both of those specs need a serious nerf.
Yes, Fire mages need another nerf, it's ridiculous that they scale way better than any other class. Reduce Critical Mass crit bonus down to 1.1 already, that's more than enough.
What are the others? Feral Druids, Survival Hunters and Affli Warlocks most likely, as they're known to be too high as well.

I bet they all were arcane mages since it's nonsense to cleave in that boss yea it looks pretty on dmg meter but truth is that it wont help a shit in that fight. And mages are bound to be high on dmg since they got no raid cooldowns or anything significant buffs that wouldn't be able to get from other classes. Nobody would take mages into a raid if they were botton on dps meters cause it just wouldn't make any sense. And I don't get how shadow priests would be op at the moment...?

Gz to china

[Fleuria]

Fight is not hard at all in its current form, people say its a nerf but in reality it was actually a fix to bring it in line with what dungeon journal actually says, 50k then stacks up to 150k instead of a stable 150k from the first boss to last which made healing terribly hard.

Melee are a tad useless if you want them to get stacks, also the movement required to get them for melee would just kill their general dps so all ranged is very optimal unless its changed quickly and spriest divine star healing last phase is broken lol

anyway more to the point here is a video from scrubbusters if you want to watch the fight took us around 5/6 attempts - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=dBJp3gcmNk4

[Dracodraco]

Out of pure interest, why'd you opt to not use the cleansing waters buff in P1/2 to ease the healing? It's not like your healers had tons of mana starting P3 (hamer was on what, 30-35%?). First guess would be water bolts being hard to interrupt with that many ranged, but on the other hand, you're all stacked up at ranged anyway, so the bolts would still hit half the raid :s.

[Fleuria]

We started with 6 healers and healing was never extremely intense so we just dropped one, also never really used the buff for ranged only ever melee and in last phase when we killed asani last guess we could use it but it isn't game breaking atleast for us to kill the boss.

[Dracodraco]

We started with 6 healers and healing was never extremely intense so we just dropped one, also never really used the buff for ranged only ever melee and in last phase when we killed asani last guess we could use it but it isn't game breaking atleast for us to kill the boss.

Fair enough I guess. Im aware it's not "needed" to kill the boss, but having 50% more healing done for almost the entire fight (before elite) really trivialises healing requirements =P.

[Jainzar]

did it yesterday in 25m hc elite mode, pretty easy tbh. actually easier than "normal mode" heroic if you have enough gear

[Ryme]

did it yesterday in 25m hc elite mode, pretty easy tbh. actually easier than "normal mode" heroic if you have enough gear

Who got the loot?

As to the idea that you can't legitimately compare Asian WF to US/EU WF - it's completely legitimate, in exactly the same way that you can't compare 10 to 25 man, it's just not the same. Like it or not, there are now three totally valid, totally challenging "world first races" in the game now.

[Nakkí]

Regardless of how or where, they did it first. There is no discussion about this.

Actually, there's plenty of discussion about it. Too bad all of it is pointless!

[Dastuross]

I wonder if there will ever be a time when people stop whining about 10vs25 ?

OT: Grats to Wings of Aurora! im not going to comment on asia vs rest of world, given it has already been discussed and i have no thoughts on it that havent already been said

[Deleted]

This is incorrect. They got it, and they themselves admitted it, because they get 2 lockouts and better loot than us (Yes, they do. They actually get better things than anyone else in the world via more lockouts / their 25mans have better item-level loot we dont even have access to).

Paragon has said 10man doesnt count. They said it themselves. Get over that.

Paragon are the ultimate and final authority on whose accomplishments should be recognised? Haha! I believe if anyone needs to "get over" this world first thing, it's yourself. I'm truly sorry to shit up this thread with posts about this nonsense, but some of the things people come out with are just... adorable.

[lockedout]

Paragon are the ultimate and final authority on whose accomplishments should be recognised? Haha! I believe if anyone needs to "get over" this world first thing, it's yourself. I'm truly sorry to shit up this thread with posts about this nonsense, but some of the things people come out with are just... adorable.

I think what he meant is paragon said 10 mans didnt matter when they were a 25 man guild.
Now they are a 10 man guild and by default 10 mans matter to them.

[Radalek]

I think what he meant is paragon said 10 mans didnt matter when they were a 25 man guild.
Now they are a 10 man guild and by default 10 mans matter to them.

No, they actually said that now, during MoP. After their Will hc kill they said that they wish they were able to stay 25 man and that Method deserved their #1 spot. Feel free to check their interview on Manaflask.

[Daewyn]

No, they actually said that now, during MoP. After their Will hc kill they said that they wish they were able to stay 25 man and that Method deserved their #1 spot. Feel free to check their interview on Manaflask.

Would you like to give me the exact quote from that interview after Will hc was killed where Sejta or anyone else from Paragon states that 10 man doesn't matter (I didn't even find any statements about Method deserving their number 1 spot in that interview but no reason to argue about that as no one probably thinks otherwise)? Wishing to be able to raid 25's is not the same as invalidating 10 man progress. There have been a few (semi?)-official statements during Cataclysm about 10 vs 25 man raiding but firstly some of them were very encounter specific (I don't think anyone disagrees that Alakir was actually easier on 10 man, there was a reason people were left out from the platform during first phase) and if not, they included very in-depth explanation about different difficulties (the one about Firelands) and even there no one actually stated that 10 man doesn't matter, just that some encounters (the ones that happened to be the hardest) happened to be fundamentally easier in 10 man. Statements from previous tiers should not be compared to current tier in any way because things have actually changed (just like things changed after ICC and allowed 10 mans to get same i-lvl loot, or like things changed to allow 10 mans to get all the necessary buffs with reasonable raid comp).

One fact remains though: 10 man and 25 man encounters are very different, both have their own difficulties and both raid sizes offer different strenghts. In my opinion you shouldn't even compare them for that reason but everyone of course makes their own decision about that.

And just so I wouldn't go completely off topic, congratulations for the world first, quite sad that they had to see a nerf on the boss because it is actually quite easy now and I am sure they would have been able to change their 6% wipe to a kill in near future.

(I also like to use "( )"-marks a lot, I clearly need to get my head fixed)

[Deleted]

World first is world first. Seriously, enough with this stupid crap. They got world first, deal with it.

And Paragon got world first as well, despite you very likely being one of the people saying it doesn't count because it was in 10 man.

World /FIRST/. Meaning the first people in the world to do it. Regardless of how or where, they did it first. There is no discussion about this.

No it isn't. China is not in for the "World First". They are in the league by themself there hence the different lockout, item level...

[Christan]

World first = world first. 10, 25, 250,000,000, doesn't mean shit. World first IS world first.

two resets and 25m having higher ilvl gear than for the rest of the world kind of does exclude it.
and if i remember right the fight is easier on 25 than 10, unlike some fights.

while technically world first, both of those things combined mean they are weeks and weeks ahead of everyone else.

when everyone else can get each heroic piece +2 upgraded, then we can talk(because we have lower ilvl drops)

because of the whole eu vs us and us getting +1 day thing,
i will say if no one beats it within a month, then they win.

[scvd]

World first is world first!

No.

[Krunkus]

I love this. This fighting over 10/25.

- Sure, 25 man raids are more epic. To myself anyway.
- Sure, 25 man raids are harder to put together, harder to coordinate and harder to keep the whole group from making a mistake.
and
- Sure, back in WotLK (especially seen in ICC) 25 man raids were tuned higher and given better gear, therefore 10 man raids were a LOT easier due to tuning and out-gearing.

But we're in Mists of Pandaria, where Blizzard tune 10 and 25 man raids to be the same. I raid on 2 characters, one is in a 10 man raid group and one is in a 25 man raid group.
If one person screws up in a 10 man encounter, your battle-res is gone. Anything after that and you're down to 9 man. 10 man raiding also requires at least MOST people to play at the same level as other. 25 man raids can carry a variety of player's skill levels.

Now this is the big thing. This will blow most of your minds. They are relatively BOTH THE SAME in difficulty. Yeah sure some fights are easier in 10 man, but some are easier in 25 man too. I feel more epic in a 25 man raid. I feel more important in a 10 man raid. DPS wise, I feel more pressure competing in a 25 man groups. Mechanics wise / mistake wise, I feel more pressure in a 10 man raiding scene.

Can we all please get over it. I wouldn't mind seeing wow progress with 3 categories.

World First -
World First 25 man -
World First 10 man -

But a world first is a world first, regardless of raid size.

P.S. 17 out of the top 20 guilds are 25 man - looking at that with no prior knowledge would tell me that 25 man raids are EASIER!!! What do you think about that haters?

[NightZero88]

No it isn't. China is not in for the "World First". They are in the league by themself there hence the different lockout, item level...

two resets and 25m having higher ilvl gear than for the rest of the world kind of does exclude it.
and if i remember right the fight is easier on 25 than 10, unlike some fights.

while technically world first, both of those things combined mean they are weeks and weeks ahead of everyone else.

when everyone else can get each heroic piece +2 upgraded, then we can talk(because we have lower ilvl drops)

because of the whole eu vs us and us getting +1 day thing,
i will say if no one beats it within a month, then they win.

Dictionary.com definition for first: 1. being before all others with respect to time, order, rank, importance, etc., used as the ordinal number of one: the first edition; the first vice president.

Dictionary.com definition for world: 1.the earth or globe, considered as a planet.

If we combine these two we get: Being before all others in the earth. World first = The first in the world to beat something. Nowhere does it specify only in these situations or when it's this many people or that many people. World first is world first. Can we please drop it now? You guys can complain all you want about what SHOULD be but world first is world first.