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  1. #21
    The Lightbringer Simulacrum's Avatar
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    Seems like a pretty inconsequential nerf for the majority of raid encounters, but it sure sucks balls for soloing, heroics, and challenge modes... all the things that I spec prot for.

  2. #22
    Pandaren Monk vep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nonslid View Post
    Soon no reasons to play palas, why do they enjoy nerfing us so much?
    I love it how people always whine about changes.
    Seriously, today you have all the tools you "need". You also get to do decent damage. It's not like "go holy or go home" anymore, like it used to be. Same thing with mages, they are in a good spot for 6 years in a row but when they get a nerf each and every single one of them cries on the forums.

    Guess now you will have to rely on your skill, instead of facerolling challenge modes, right?

  3. #23
    When did this go live? I honestly didn't even notice anything until I saw this thread. I'm looking at my Heroic Wind Lord Mel'jarak logs from last week and this week and I'm seeing a lower number of heals per minute from SoI, but not an insanely lower amount. I'm more surprised that they decided to nerf Seal of Insight rather than Battle Healer.

    You guys are making it sound like the sky is falling. To me this seems very minor.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by vep View Post
    I love it how people always whine about changes.
    Seriously, today you have all the tools you "need". You also get to do decent damage. It's not like "go holy or go home" anymore, like it used to be. Same thing with mages, they are in a good spot for 6 years in a row but when they get a nerf each and every single one of them cries on the forums.

    Guess now you will have to rely on your skill, instead of facerolling challenge modes, right?
    Ya, clearly protection paladins were the strongest tanks for challange modes.

  5. #25
    Pandaren Monk vep's Avatar
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    I dare say there's more to the game than just being the best at challenge modes. Just because you're not the optimal tank for them, doesn't mean it's impossible. So instead of AoEing the instance, like a DK does, work out something else.
    But that's too hard, isn't it? :/

    Oh and also: did you expect to see yourself at the top of that list? (For me it says page unavailable)

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by vep View Post
    I dare say there's more to the game than just being the best at challenge modes. Just because you're not the optimal tank for them, doesn't mean it's impossible. So instead of AoEing the instance, like a DK does, work out something else.
    But that's too hard, isn't it? :/

    Oh and also: did you expect to see yourself at the top of that list? (For me it says page unavailable)
    The thing is, we weren't the best for challange modes and with this nerf we are even further. Don't come here saying "Guess now you will have to rely on your skill, instead of facerolling challenge modes, right?" if you don't want to talk about challange mode.

    And ya, have you ever watched a challange mode video? If you don't AoE (like when you pull the whole trash 'til the first boss in Temple of the Jade Serpent to the boss) you get no gold.

    And no, I just wanted something balanced and a chance of getting that awesome gear.

    We already had crap damage, crap utility and now we have crap self heals. Just because you don't care about challange modes don't come here saying those things.

  7. #27
    Pandaren Monk vep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thyranne View Post
    The thing is, we weren't the best for challange modes and with this nerf we are even further. Don't come here saying "Guess now you will have to rely on your skill, instead of facerolling challenge modes, right?" if you don't want to talk about challange mode.

    And ya, have you ever watched a challange mode video? If you don't AoE (like when you pull the whole trash 'til the first boss in Temple of the Jade Serpent to the boss) you get no gold.

    And no, I just wanted something balanced and a chance of getting that awesome gear.

    We already had crap damage, crap utility and now we have crap self heals. Just because you don't care about challange modes don't come here saying those things.

    Well the solution is simple, then... Delete your paladin and re roll a DK or something.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by vep View Post
    Well the solution is simple, then... Delete your paladin and re roll a DK or something.
    Or, they can balance things.

  9. #29
    Pandaren Monk Spacebubble's Avatar
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    fuck me, just as it was time to go for wind lord heroic. oh well at least it's supposed to be so easy it shouldn't really matter.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Spacebot View Post
    fuck me, just as it was time to go for wind lord heroic. oh well at least it's supposed to be so easy it shouldn't really matter.
    Whats your ilvl and can you tell me how hard/easy was the boss after a few attempts please?

  11. #31
    Pandaren Monk GenaiTN's Avatar
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    I am seriously pissed off with this. They've made us into a duller version of a Death Knight now, except with no Scent of Blood to increase our healing...

    Seal of Truth? Pointless.
    Seal of Righteousness? Pointless.
    Seal of Insight? Pointless.

  12. #32
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helai View Post
    Seal of Insight? Pointless.
    Fights in which the nerf matters:

    Wind Lord Mel'jarak
    Grand Empress Shek'zeer
    Protectors of the Endless

    In only one of these fights it matters drastically, which is Grand Empress. I don't see how Seal of Insight is suddenly shit because it got nerfed big time in 3 encounters and a tiny bit on some others (Stone Guards, Spirit Kings, Amber-Shaper). It was seriously off anyway. I agree the nerf was maybe too big, but it's not the end of the world.

  13. #33
    Pandaren Monk Spacebubble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thyranne View Post
    Whats your ilvl and can you tell me how hard/easy was the boss after a few attempts please?
    Probably wont know till 2-3 weeks from now, wont be getting more than 1 max 2 raids going during holiday period.

  14. #34
    Pandaren Monk GenaiTN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turvakapsu View Post
    Fights in which the nerf matters:

    Wind Lord Mel'jarak
    Grand Empress Shek'zeer
    Protectors of the Endless

    In only one of these fights it matters drastically, which is Grand Empress. I don't see how Seal of Insight is suddenly shit because it got nerfed big time in 3 encounters and a tiny bit on some others (Stone Guards, Spirit Kings, Amber-Shaper). It was seriously off anyway. I agree the nerf was maybe too big, but it's not the end of the world.
    It just makes me angry, I loved pulling everything and never dying.

  15. #35
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    It was a bug. Seals are to proc off of melee hits, and the HotR nova certainly isn't a melee hit. They didn't fix it until now because it wasn't exactly something that stands out, nor would it be a "game breaking" bug, but fix it they did. We all get to move on and fondly remember the times when we did silly stuff because of game issues (see the SoTruth issue some months ago, and the Reckoning bomb of the BC days).

    Quote Originally Posted by Thyranne View Post
    We already had crap damage, crap utility and now we have crap self heals.
    Tank damage is relative to Vengeance. Want more damage? Pull more stuff.

    Crap utility? I'd say the Hand spells are pretty damned good utility, plus all of the free healing we throw all over the place (see Glyph of the Battle Healer).

    Crap self-healing? We have baseline self-healing from Seal of Insight (that also scales up with Vengeance), a fully stacked WoG can hit like a truck, and Sacred Shield is amazing damage mitigation (that also scales with Vengeance).

    I haven't had the chance to run challenge modes, but I honestly think you're being a bit hyperbolic about this whole situation.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    Tank damage is relative to Vengeance. Want more damage? Pull more stuff.
    Ya, that explains why the monk tank in my group always out dps me by a lot even tho I'm far more geared than him. The only fight I out dps him is the Stone Guards (and Wind Lord but I won't count it cuz I'm always solo tanking).

    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    Crap utility? I'd say the Hand spells are pretty damned good utility, plus all of the free healing we throw all over the place (see Glyph of the Battle Healer).
    I was talking about Challange Modes. What utility do we have for challange mode? Which boss/trash slow us that make HoF useful? If I hold the aggro I don't have to use HoP. Only Hand of Purity is good (and not that good). I'd rather have an AoE stun.


    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    Crap self-healing? We have baseline self-healing from Seal of Insight (that also scales up with Vengeance), a fully stacked WoG can hit like a truck, and Sacred Shield is amazing damage mitigation (that also scales with Vengeance).
    Ya, that 8K healing is really strong. I agree that Sacred Shield is awesome but it's on GCD and takes 6 secs for it to start working.
    Last edited by Thyranne; 2012-12-19 at 02:45 PM.

  17. #37
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thyranne View Post
    I agree that Sacred Shield is awesome but it's on GCD and takes 6 secs for it to start working.
    I didn't know Death Strike wasn't on the GCD. Or druid rage generators etc. etc. Also, what's the problem with it taking 6 seconds to start working? As you said you care about Challenge modes and as far as I'm aware there's a countdown for the Challenge mode before it begins.

    Also, if you care about Challenge modes so much why not just roll a DK or something? It's not like there's a gear requirement since it's capped at 463. If you want the gear for your paladin in specific and only would do it because of that, learn to play better I guess.

  18. #38

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Turvakapsu View Post
    I didn't know Death Strike wasn't on the GCD. Or druid rage generators etc. etc. Also, what's the problem with it taking 6 seconds to start working? As you said you care about Challenge modes and as far as I'm aware there's a countdown for the Challenge mode before it begins.
    Paladins generators are hammer of the righteous/crusader strike, not Sacred Shield.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turvakapsu View Post
    Also, if you care about Challenge modes so much why not just roll a DK or something? It's not like there's a gear requirement since it's capped at 463. If you want the gear for your paladin in specific and only would do it because of that, learn to play better I guess.
    Then why don't everyone roll mage or w/e is the strongest class in PvP to get gladiator?

    The thing is that it was this bug that made is viable in Challange Mode when we had to do big pulls. Now there is no way in hell we can do it.
    Last edited by Thyranne; 2012-12-19 at 03:12 PM.

  20. #40
    Moderator Malthanis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thyranne View Post
    Ya, that explains why the monk tank in my group always out dps me by a lot even tho I'm far more geared than him. The only fight I out dps him is the Stone Guards (and Wind Lord but I won't count it cuz I'm always solo tanking).
    By how much, though? Without numbers, "he does more DPS than me" doesn't mean much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thyranne View Post
    I was talking about Challange Modes. What utility do we have for challange mode? Which boss/trash slow us that make HoF useful? If I hold the aggro I don't have to use HoP. Only Hand of Purity is good (and not that good). I'd rather have an AoE stun.
    You have an AoE stun (with a glyph, anyways). If you don't want to use the Blinding Light glyph, then have your group focus-fire a specific target so the rest of the group suffers through the full disorient. You also have the option to talent a really good stun on a 30s CD.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thyranne View Post
    Ya, that 8K healing is really strong. I agree that Sacred Shield is awesome but it's on GCD and takes 6 secs for it to start working.
    That's healing your healers don't have to do, ever. There's nowhere to go but up for Prot Paladin healing in a fight. DK healing, for example, is at the whims of the damage they take.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thyranne View Post
    Paladins generators are hammer of the righteous/crusader strike, not Sacred Shield.
    We're comparing the mitigation here. So, when calling out Death Strike, we're talking about the Blood Shield portion of it. Once you get SS up and rolling, you shouldn't let it fall off. So you will be guaranteed an absorb shield every 6 seconds (or more frequently, if you like haste).

    Quote Originally Posted by Thyranne View Post
    Then why don't everyone roll mage or w/e is the strongest class in PvP to get gladiator?
    Because it's more fun to deal with the weaknesses and strengths of a class that you like. You either overcome your problems, or give up.

    Which will you do?

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