1. #1
    Field Marshal
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    Warlock BiS List

    As the topics says. Where can i find Warlock BiS List ? Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral
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    SimulationCraft

    Expand Affliction, Demo, or Destro as you wish.
    Expand the Gear section.
    Profit.

    This assumes, of course, PvE.

  3. #3
    High Overlord Medelwr's Avatar
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    You can also use Ask Mr Robot BiS list. You can configure it to show BiS normal gear
    My work | Requests: Closed

  4. #4
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwhit21 View Post
    You can also use Ask Mr Robot BiS list. You can configure it to show BiS normal gear
    Ask Mr Robot BiS was wrong as of Cataclysm DS, and probably still wrong. Personally IIRC this is the BiS list:

    509 Loshan, Terror Incarnate
    509 Tornado-Summoning Censer
    509 Xaril's Hood of Intoxicating Vapors
    510 Amulet of Seven Curses
    509 Sha-Skin Mantle
    516 Cloak of Overwhelming Corruption
    509 Sha-Skin Robes
    509 Attenuating Bracers
    509 Sha-Skin Gloves
    509 Belt of Malleable Amber
    509 Sha-Skin Leggings
    509 Sandals of the Unbidden
    516 Watersoul Signet
    509 Fragment of Fear Made Flesh
    509 Essence of Terror
    502 Light of the Cosmos


    Upgrades may or may not have changed it, but I highly doubt it seeing as stat priorities have not changed.
    Last edited by nightfalls; 2012-12-19 at 01:19 AM.

  5. #5
    Icy Veins have great lists in their class guides, not just the absolute BiS but ratings for all the gear you can get on the way. Can't say if they are accurate but I reckon they're good enough until your gear gets so good you want to start simming.

  6. #6
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    Icy Veins is sort of a 90% solution: what it offers is "good enough" but not "great." I use it for alts I don't plan on raiding with, but I wouldn't use it for a main.

    AskMrRobot is awesome... if you manually go in and adjust the stat weights and caps properly: it's default weights are highly suspect on every class I've checked. With that said, if you do manage to set up the weights properly, it's a great tool. I'll leave it as an exercise for the serious student to actually find out what those weights/caps should be...

    SimulationCraft is a very good simulation. Any simulation, of course, is only as good as the underlying model... but SimCraft has a great reputation along these lines. (I use it for my 11/16 heroic 'lock, if that helps.)

  7. #7
    Hey there, I'm from Ask Mr. Robot and want to explain how our BiS lists work. Everything we do is customized to YOUR stat weights and options, including the BiS list. If you weight Haste above Mastery, we'll pick different gear than if you weight Mastery above haste (made up priorities). We also take caps into account when looking at the BiS list - so if your gear set gets you so far above the hit cap that you can't reforge out of enough hit to drop you down to the cap, we'll choose different pieces. We also factor in the reforge, gem, and enchant options when deciding what item is best. And of course, if you select 'pre-raid' gear in the options menu, we'll pick a BiS list of items you can get without ever going into a raid. And so on, and so forth.

    As for our stat weights: we generate those using a program that interfaces with SimC. We generate real gear sets, run it through simC, get the stat weights, generate more gear sets, etc. We continue to do this until we find a stable set of weights that works across most high-end gear. However, sometimes there's a break point where you need different weights depending on... say a set bonus. In those cases we provide 2 stat weight options.

    Now, if you SIM your gear, you will get different stat weights than what we have. Which makes sense - we can't offer stat weights specific to every single character. But they should be in the ballpark and gems/reforges should not change around too much. If things change dramatically, let me know so we can revisit our defaults.


    As for SimC vs AMR: As people have said, they are different tools. SimC is an AWESOME simulator that spits out damage, stat weights, etc. We use them to generate our stat weights. Then Mr. Robot optimizes your stuff.
    Optimize your gear on AskMrRobot.com
    From Mr. Robot: Find the best gear in your bags, help & faq, and Preview our combat log tool.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoopercat View Post
    Hey there, I'm from Ask Mr. Robot and want to explain how our BiS lists work. Everything we do is customized to YOUR stat weights and options, including the BiS list.
    That's not how BiS works and something you should be more clear about. There is no such thing as individual stat weights in a BiS list. All numbers look the same for everyone. We also want to aim for the exact same items when going for BiS.

  9. #9
    Bonkura, I disagree. For example, for affliction locks, some want to be hit capped and some don't (you get more DPS if you aren't hit capped as an affliction lock, one of the few classes like that). Our site gives you a BiS list based on YOUR preferences. This also lets you get a BiS list for LFR gear only, or normal mode only, in case you aren't on a heroic raid team.

    Also, take another example: if you're not a jewelcrafter, you might end up with a different BiS set. If you're a draenai and you get 1% hit, you'll have a different BiS list as well. This list goes on.
    Last edited by Zoopercat; 2012-12-19 at 10:17 PM.
    Optimize your gear on AskMrRobot.com
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  10. #10
    Then we have different views. BiS is BiS and that's it IMO.

    Not that I care for BiS because I've rarely had it myself, even if content has been cleared early. But I don't go make my own BiS list because it would be wrong.

  11. #11
    I don't go for BiS lists, I go for "gear what I'd like to have", for example, I like staves more than MH+OH. I know, MH+OH might be better statwise, but I just like having one item on those slots
    Also, requires 1500 less VP to upgrade
    Jokkepappa of Depraved
    EU - Twilight's Hammer
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  12. #12
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Blah blah, the thing with AMR is this:

    In theory, their optimizer would be great if their algorithms worked. But they don't.

    In Cataclysm late DS, I went into AMR and put in some stat weights. It gave me an (incorrect) "best in slot" list. I then manually rearranged the items and gems to get a higher stat score (based on my custom weights) than what AMR's "optimizer" algorithms gave me.
    Last edited by nightfalls; 2012-12-20 at 12:26 AM.

  13. #13
    voidspark, a lot has changed since Cataclysm What is your character realm and name, I will take a look and see how the optimizations are on your character. What stat weights are you using these days, I'll enter those as well.
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  14. #14
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zoopercat View Post
    voidspark, a lot has changed since Cataclysm What is your character realm and name, I will take a look and see how the optimizations are on your character. What stat weights are you using these days, I'll enter those as well.
    My name and armory are on my signature. Stat weights used are Hit 5100 (hard capped), Haste 4717 (soft cap), then Mastery, then additional Haste, then Crit. I believe I used 200 for Hit, 160 for Haste (before 4717), 150 for Mastery, 140 for Haste (after 4717), then 120 for Crit. For gemming I valued Mastery, Hit both over 0.5 Intellect.

    After using the new interface (gave it another shot), my main complaint is that I greatly prefer using ratings to percentage points (ratings are exact, percentage points are not). I can't find an option to use ratings.

    Explanation: Raid buffed haste is significantly more difficult to set than rating haste (the rating's calculated knowing raid buffed haste, then to reforge I go backwards). Even if I had issues with the optimizer algorithm, it's difficult for me to test any improvements because I can't use ratings as soft/hard caps.

    Review: Honestly, with as much criticism as I gave the site in the past, I can see it becoming a new profiler tool at minimum, if it were more user-friendly with stat ratings over results (I don't even know if the hard cap for reforging is "raid buffed" or unbuffed, but the ratings wouldn't change. Also one has to take into account whether my 10m raid group gives 5% spell haste or not). So far, Chardev, Wowhead, and other profilers are badly broken, so AMR has potential to take over.
    Last edited by nightfalls; 2012-12-20 at 12:44 AM.

  15. #15
    voidspark, thanks for taking a look at it again. We have seen the request to use ratings instead of percentages, so you're not alone. Right now, we use percentages because Haste breakpoints are determined by the final percentage of Haste you're trying to reach. The theorycrafters back this out into the haste RATING needed on your gear, which causes some confusion. But let's say you don't have the 5% raid buff - you'll need even more haste rating on your gear - but you still are trying to reach the same percentage.

    Here's a blog post we made about Haste. For your numbers, assuming you have the 5% raid buff, you'd want 16.654% Haste. Here's how to get that:

    --425 haste RATING = 1% Haste. So 4717 / 425 = 11.099%
    --Buffs are multiplicative, so you multiply the 5% Haste buff like this: 1.11099 * 1.05 = 1.16654. Which is 16.654%

    We don't put a cap on the number of decimal places you can go, so put in a whole bunch of them.

    Anyway, that all being said, we do want to address 2 issues: 1) Making haste rating / percentage conversions available and 2) letting people select/deselect the haste raid buff. So keep an eye out for future updates that make that part easier
    Optimize your gear on AskMrRobot.com
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  16. #16
    The Patient Reolac's Avatar
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    Last I checked the following gear set simmed the highest:

    Sha-Skin Hood
    Worldwaker Cachabon
    Sha-Skin Mantle
    Robes of the Unknown Fear
    Belt of Malleable Amber
    Sha-Skin Leggings
    Sandals of the Blackest Night
    Attenuating Bracers
    Sha-Skin Gloves
    Watersoul Signet
    Fragment of Fear Made Flesh
    Essence of Terror
    Light of the Cosmos
    Cloak of Overwhelming Corruption
    Regail's Crackling Dagger
    Tornado-Summoning Censer

  17. #17
    Does that list include the 5.1 version of the legendary? I think the 550int gem + the prismatic socket make the sword better than heroic elite dagger.

  18. #18
    The Patient Reolac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harsesis View Post
    Does that list include the 5.1 version of the legendary? I think the 550int gem + the prismatic socket make the sword better than heroic elite dagger.
    My list does not; the weapon was discussed on Method boards a week or so ago. (http://www.methodwow.com/board/showt...ll=1#post97178)

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