where has sylvanas gone?

[Scummer]

I'm not really sure I want to know.
What can they do with her at this moment without making her worse? She's go to the point of no return with her actions against the Alliance to the point where it's practically unforgivable and irredeemable, and if they continue making her more evil or continue on the same path then she would become a villain incapable of facing justice because of how shallow the Forsaken story has become.

They're going to have to pull off a miracle for me to not dislike her.

[Bubalus]

Many characters are fake-brave... but when dealing with the might of Hellscream they are.... absent.
If Garrosh is doing such big mistakes... wheres the so called veteran Saurfang to challenge him to an old school duel? Wheres the mighty Rexxar, half orc half ogre to apply a correction to Garrosh? Sylvanas isnt a mano a mano character, she cant challenge Garrosh, for the duel would end in a matter of seconds.
.

Indeed seconds , garrosh charges , garrosh drops dead with an arrow in his head before he reaches her.
Don't underestimate the dark lady ^^

[Briga]

Where is Sylvanas? Biding her time.

The thing we have to remember about the Forsaken is that following Wrathgate they are the most mistrusted by Garrosh. Kor'Kron have been "guarding" the undercity for a while now and Sylvanas herself has also been given Orc minders to ensure she keeps on track with Garrosh's order to take Gilneas.

The questline in Cata where Garrosh meets sylvnnas and the short story show he has nothing but contempt and mistrust of the undead faction. Personally I think Sylvanas is biding her time and when she learns the other leaders want him gone she will act. I am sure it will begin with her taking back undercity from the Kor'Kron (probably a scenario) because she wouldn't be able to do anything against Garrosh while his goons control undercity then the shit will get real.

[Snowraven]

Many characters are fake-brave... but when dealing with the might of Hellscream they are.... absent.
If Garrosh is doing such big mistakes... wheres the so called veteran Saurfang to challenge him to an old school duel? Wheres the mighty Rexxar, half orc half ogre to apply a correction to Garrosh? Sylvanas isnt a mano a mano character, she cant challenge Garrosh, for the duel would end in a matter of seconds.


Truth is they are all scared for they know as father as son, Hellscream is too powerful in a 1v1 combat. As his father risen above and eclipsed all, so the son shall be the same.



The time will come when all of them will ally for they might have a chance like that.

That's easy.

Saurfang is in Northrend, still mourning his son. The only reason he wanted to make the Horde better was for his son. Now his son is dead, his wife is dead, most of his friends are dead. So, what's the use?
Rexxar is in Outland, still trying to deal with his tribe.
Plus, neither of these are idiots, even if they will act, they won't go and challenge Garrosh directly. For by now they know that Garrosh is sending assassins to those he dislikes before they challenge him.

Sylvannas is not someone to yell "I'll kill you" to someone's face. She almost managed to kill Arthas if you remember, just before he left for Northrend. if not for Kel'thuzad, we wouldn't have even fought the Lich King Arthas.

Lady windrunner was making out excuses when confronted with Garrosh face to face... so much for the arrow
As for Cairne atleast he had the guts to challenge Garrosh.. even for stupid reasons like those nightelves druids. And he didnt kick his ass, not one bit. read a little something.

Actually, Cairne did kick his ass. He injured Garrosh well, and Garrosh barely scratched him. If that scratch wasn't filled with poison, Cairne would have killed Garrosh, for Garrosh was already faltering, while Cairne was not.
Maybe you should read better before saying stuff like that.

Yeh. Sylvanas, that old rotten fanservice faction boss, would have "how many arrows you can shoot into Garrosh's back"-race with Vol'jin.

Btw, i could imagine Gallywix being one of the raid bosses, just because "Garrosh is owing me money for rebuilding Org! Must defend him!"

...lol. Imagine if Gallywix and some other goblins would turn into horde version of Defias Brotherhood, hating horde because of unpayed building costs.

lol, that would be something.

We goblins build a lot, mind you.

Those little bugger terraformed a whole zone just look at ashzara and what they built there

I can see a bunch of canyons in Azshara where before there weren't any. Is that were you built things before they blew up?

yeah could explode my ass.
You guys are thinking objective... You hate Garrosh and you basicly say everyone could beat him. Like probably you would say of his father... His father could have butchered Thrall in seconds. Why is son different from the father?


Also theres a reason blizz makes Garrosh a final boss of an expansion .... I dont think they make him because hes a 2$ sissy. Got it?
Saurfang Rexxar Jaina and all other "heroes" will never be final bosses no matter how corrupt they get. Because they arent as strong. Simple as that.

Why is Garrosh different from Grom? Because Grom fought in 3 wars against humans, orcs, night elves, demons. Because Grom fought against draenei and stood with a little force fighting humans being hunted like deer. And in that meantime, when Grom got experience, Garrosh stood in Outland crying of how useless he is, doing nothing, getting no experience, no fighting or leadership experience. He can't even compare to his father.

Yes, they made him the final boss because... he's the leader of a powerful faction trying to use a lot of weird tactics and artifacts to win by any means. He's the final boss because he's evil and his subjects are strong. he alone however... is not. Maybe if he drinks demon blood or infests himself with Sha, sure, then he will be one of the strongest, but until then no.

Let's See here:
Intelligence-Regardless of morality, he is a fantastic tactician (Just look at Theramore now!)
Magic-Okay, you got me here
Friends-Malkorok, Gallywix at the moment too!
Respect-Look at the younger Orcs

As for Jaina, not if this happened b4 the Avatar nerf
(In all seriousness Gameplay=/=Lore, Frost Mages would have taken over the world by now)

In Short: Before people started whining about Garrosh because "Muh Warcraft III" and Blizzard slated him to be killed off by having him go 180 (Atleast the other changes made sense if you can connect the dots at all)

(P.S. the "Coming Together" Story is old by now, as for "the Horde isn't evil!", look at WCII, The Horde under Doomhammer, he wasn't going to let his people starve because of some misplaced sense of pacifism, he was also rather honorable, a Good middle ground between Blackhand and Thrall [Diplomacy when it helps {See: The Kingdom of Alterac, and the Amani Tribe} and Violence when it's needed {Purging of the Shadow Council, and the Second War}])

Actually he's not such a good tactician, he's a ruthless dictator. A good tactician doesn't turn the other races allied to him against him. The trolls preety much are leading a resistance war now, the blood elves almost left the Horde, if not for Jaina now they'd be here.
And in tems of respect, yes, he has the respect of many orcs... and that's about it. He lost the respect of trolls, tauren and blood elves. Forsaken never had respect for anyone, so they don't count.

[Scummer]

Where is Sylvanas? Biding her time.

The thing we have to remember about the Forsaken is that following Wrathgate they are the most mistrusted by Garrosh. Kor'Kron have been "guarding" the undercity for a while now and Sylvanas herself has also been given Orc minders to ensure she keeps on track with Garrosh's order to take Gilneas.

The questline in Cata where Garrosh meets sylvnnas and the short story show he has nothing but contempt and mistrust of the undead faction. Personally I think Sylvanas is biding her time and when she learns the other leaders want him gone she will act. I am sure it will begin with her taking back undercity from the Kor'Kron (probably a scenario) because she wouldn't be able to do anything against Garrosh while his goons control undercity then the shit will get real.

Do remember that it wasn't Garrosh who put them there, it was Thrall so killing them would easily be seen by some as usurping Thralls orders even if Garrosh has distorted them of which we have no evidence for in UC.
Such action would only put Sylvanas deeper into the evil hole she's in if her actions were not provoked by Garrosh doing something.

[keksplace]

Actually, Cairne did kick his ass. He injured Garrosh well, and Garrosh barely scratched him. If that scratch wasn't filled with poison, Cairne would have killed Garrosh, for Garrosh was already faltering, while Cairne was not.
Maybe you should read better before saying stuff like that.

Yeah thats why Groehowl broke that stick, right, cos he was geting his ass kicked.
Get your facts straight.
Maybe he would have started fist pumping an enraged orc with an axe after that and i dont know.

[Briga]

Do remember that it wasn't Garrosh who put them there, it was Thrall so killing them would easily be seen by some as usurping Thralls orders even if Garrosh has distorted them of which we have no evidence for in UC.
Such action would only put Sylvanas deeper into the evil hole she's in if her actions were not provoked by Garrosh doing something.

Thrall may well have put them in there and Sylvannas accepted that decision following wrathgate but the Kor'kron are certainly not the same under Garrosh and you can see that in the Echo isles, they are brutal, determined, and using what looks like fel/shadow magic now. The thing is though with the Kor'jron having such a stranglehold on Undercity already how can Sylvanas move against Garrosh when her city is under his control?

[Shadow-cleave]

Yeah thats why Groehowl broke that stick, right, cos he was geting his ass kicked.
Get your facts straight.
Maybe he would have started fist pumping an enraged orc with an axe after that and i dont know.

The spear broke because Garrosh gave that swing everything he had. Cairne was kicking Garrosh's ass, so much so that if it wasn't for Magetha we'd have Cairne as a Warchief and Garrosh dead. Garrosh fought dirty, got a little scratch in, wherein the poison took effect and Cairne started to fall. Garrosh, ever the opportunist, used all his strength to strike at him, which is why the spear broke when Cairne tried to parry the blow, ending in Cairne's death.

Get yours straight. THere is no way Garrosh could have won the duel without Magetha's interference.

[Scummer]

Thrall may well have put them in there and Sylvannas accepted that decision following wrathgate but the Kor'kron are certainly not the same under Garrosh and you can see that in the Echo isles, they are brutal, determined, and using what looks like fel/shadow magic now. The thing is though with the Kor'jron having such a stranglehold on Undercity already how can Sylvanas move against Garrosh when her city is under his control?

So far they've remained the same in UC as they have under Thrall. Until that changes there's no reason for Sylvanas to kill them, not to mention how if she does she immediately becomes a target like the Trolls have and as we're aware Sylvanas is aware of how weak the Forsaken are otherwise she wouldn't be concerned every time the idea of an Alliance counter attack is mentioned.

Currently you're basing your opinion on a hunch that so far hasn't been reflected in game. Until they are directly provoked by those Kor'kron in some manner like the Trolls they seem set to stay.

[keksplace]

The spear broke because Garrosh gave that swing everything he had. Cairne was kicking Garrosh's ass, so much so that if it wasn't for Magetha we'd have Cairne as a Warchief and Garrosh dead. Garrosh fought dirty, got a little scratch in, wherein the poison took effect and Cairne started to fall. Garrosh, ever the opportunist, used all his strength to strike at him, which is why the spear broke when Cairne tried to parry the blow, ending in Cairne's death.

Get yours straight. THere is no way Garrosh could have won the duel without Magetha's interference.

"Used all his strength".... You guys are so funny when you hate someone... =D His arm felt down due to the amount of strength he used, his arm just riped off in the swing.
I say he even had a kamikaze suit which got detonated so that he was sure to kill Cairne. And he used all his strength and stamina to push the detonator.

[Shadow-cleave]

"Used all his strength".... You guys are so funny when you hate someone... =D His arm felt down due to the amount of strength he used
I say he even had a kamikaze suit which got detonated so that he was sure to kill Cairne. And he used all his strength and stamina to push the detonator.

Upon receiving word from the owl Hamuul Runetotem sent, that the new Warchief sanctioned the killing of innocent druids (actually carried out by orcs loyal to Twilight's Hammer), Cairne issues a Mak'gora, challenging Garrosh for leadership of the Horde. Garrosh accepts, but adds the caveat that the combat would not be the non-lethal combat sanctioned by Thrall, but by the old laws - to the death. Cairne agrees, and the combatants meet in the arena in Orgrimmar

Each combatant is allowed one weapon and no armor. Cairne takes up his Bloodhoof Runespear, a sacred weapon of the Bloodhoof chieftains, while Garrosh carries [Gorehowl], the axe that belonged to his father, Grom Hellscream. The weapons are blessed by shaman; Gorehowl is blessed by Magatha Grimtotem, who seems approving of the new Warchief. At first gaining the upper hand, the Runespear is shattered by Gorehowl and Cairne takes a glancing slash in the chest. Cairne suddenly becomes faint and unable to raise what remained of his Runespear to defend himself, and he realizes that Magatha has poisoned Garrosh's weapon. Cairne's last thought is a lament - that he, who had lived with honor, would die betrayed, just as the howling axe of Hellscream slices into his neck. The tauren leader dies before he even hits the ground.

As well, I give you:

Notice how Garrosh is covered in cuts and the like, while Cairne has the one small scratch. Seems like Garrosh totally dominated that fight.

Also notice Magetha being smug in the background. Without her, the duel would have been completely opposite outcome. Furthermore, Garrosh only made the duel to the death in an attempt to get Cairne to call it quits, and when he accepted, Garrosh was like, "Oh shi-!"

EDIT: Do note that those are parts from the actual book.

[Mails-Prowers]

Keksplace you really need to remove those fangirl glasses and face the truth. Either you like it or not there are various Heroes and Leaders in Azeroth who could beat Garrosh without even breaking a sweat. I can give you 1000 reasons how they could. Take it from experience, powers, skills they can beat the crap out of him. A lof of those characters have beaten him in combat (with Varian having lost count) in books and in game. Search the Internet and you will find proof.

However as you seem to disagree with a passion please enlighten us of how Garrosh could beat any of Jaina, Varian, Sylvannas, Voljin, Thrall but provide us proof and stop spouting nonsense and delusions all the time.

[OscaR]

People are saying that many are able to beat Garrosh 1 on 1 but all I've seen is him winning and scaring the shit out of everyone.
Like boxing, you can have an upper hand all fight long but all it takes is 1 shot to knock you out. So you know, the last one standing is what matters.

[McNeil]

Undead really have no reason to be in Pandaria. She's likely still focused on capturing the whole of Lordaeron.

There are some forsaken in Pandaria, especially during the Alliance quests in Jade Forest where they are helping the orcs to dominate some area's.

[Zuben]

With the fall of Theramore and fighting in Dalaran I think there's a decent chance we get to see some Arathi Highlands action.

[Kralljin]

Indeed seconds , garrosh charges , garrosh drops dead with an arrow in his head before he reaches her.
Don't underestimate the dark lady ^^

Many people are underestemating Garrosh, mostly because they don't like him.

Garrosh got even stronger with time, during Wolfheart the newly Wolf God empowered Varian could beat up Garrosh.

After Theramore they had Clash again and Garrosh could keep up with him.

You can hate Garrosh, but keeping up with the Wolf scion Varian is something not everyone could do.

[keksplace]

Keksplace you really need to remove those fangirl glasses and face the truth. Either you like it or not there are various Heroes and Leaders in Azeroth who could beat Garrosh without even breaking a sweat. I can give you 1000 reasons how they could. Take it from experience, powers, skills they can beat the crap out of him. A lof of those characters have beaten him in combat (with Varian having lost count) in books and in game. Search the Internet and you will find proof.

However as you seem to disagree with a passion please enlighten us of how Garrosh could beat any of Jaina, Varian, Sylvannas, Voljin, Thrall but provide us proof and stop spouting nonsense and delusions all the time.

Theres no point in arguing with the likes of you but ima do it anyway.
The reason why he beats all of those mentioned by you is the reaon why he is warchief. If he was a pansy ass guy that none likes he wouldnt be warchief a long time ago as he rules with brutal strength and fear.

Physically hes a lot stronger than anyone mentioned there. And its in his guts that he is brutal and strong (hellscream). As for Jaina... please.

Now you please give me one fight in game when Garrosh lost to Varian.
As for the books in Ashenvale Garrosh was outnumbered when he faced Varian (and varian even used that wolf shit of his).

Give me 1 reason why those mentioned up there would beat Garrosh. And dont tell me Jaina cos shes a frost mage (that is simply retarded). Frost mage is just another class like warrior is just another class in this fantasy game. If you are a mage you arent automatically superior.... didnt Arthas as DK broke that stupid city full of most "powerful ass" mages? And dk is a melee class.

[Huntardicus]

It isn't really her time in the spot light.

I think everyone will get the spot light at least once during mop - Lor'themar making a major appearance is enough to think so.

[Shaoshi]

wow, so much Garrosh fanboys.
admitted, garrosh is a formidable opponent, and he's strong.
however, if not for luck and interference, garrosh would long be dead, Cairne almost slew him, but died because of the poison. (cairne was faster btw)
varian almost slew him, if not for a magnataur suddenly getting inbetween, as for Varian, he's not "empowered" by Lo'gosh he's merely championed by him, which gives him spirit.

as mentioned countless times before, Garrosh's rule is by fear and manipulation, very similar to the Mogu in fact. thats why he seems to love the bastards in 5.2

if even the old bull Cairne was faster than Garrosh, Imagine Sylvanas, fast as hell dancing around Garrosh. garrosh would not even get a single hit in before falling over due to the numerous arrows sticking in him if he'd really fight sylvanas 1v1. but he won't fight 1v1 anymore because he realised he can't hold his own against most of the war hardened "veterans" out there. this is why he rules with fear.
keksplace, please get your facts straight, you're embarrasing yourself.

[Scummer]

With the fall of Theramore and fighting in Dalaran I think there's a decent chance we get to see some Arathi Highlands action.

I think the reference to Danath may hopefully come to light .
The events in Dalaran seem to have shown that not everything needs to happen on Pandaria.