1. #1

    2hand Frost Haste Gems

    Alright so a few weeks ago I noticed a lot of the top death knights starting to regem for haste. So I did some research and I believe a 320 haste gem is slightly better than a 160 strength gem? I'm not too sure. But anyways, I went to askmrrobot.com which I use for my gems and reforges and enchants and all that, and it recommended that I regem all my gear to haste gems rather than strength. So I did. Now 3 weeks later, I have a lot better gear and a shit ton of haste.

    Now to my question... Is there ever a point where you can have too much haste as a Death Knight? I'm at nearly 26% bonus haste now. Do I have enough haste that regemming back to strength would be more worth it?

    Here's my armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...i%C3%AE/simple
    Askmrrobot: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/u...as/kawai%C3%AE

  2. #2
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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    Haste should become better once you get to BiS gear, before that strength should be better.

    You just need to run a simulation with your character and you are done
    Death Knight -> Italiandk
    Shaman -> Cashrain
    Paladin -> Healyoutru
    Priest -> Ängel
    Monk -> Skadoosh
    Mage -> Icydeath

  3. #3
    Still would not trust the all out haste gemming. For me when I did the maths the 320 haste is about 64 points better then 160 strength. Keep in mind that's with my current gemming of strenght/strength+haste. But when you regemm for haste the stat value will modify also in the way where once you go down with the strength it's value will boost up.

    You will have a breaking point where the gemms will have equal value and under that the haste gemm will be inferior. So my guess is, if you pull good ammount of DPS as you should based on your gear just stay that way, or since you are now haste gemmed try to gem strength and compare. Then go what ever way you want. Just that a lot of people I know that went full haste like the gameplay more due to the less downtime making the rotation a bit more fluid.

    L.E.: Or a third option and the most advanced is to try to get as much to the break point as you can. Meaning gem strength in all sockets beside yellow one, there you gem haste. So you benefit from the haste gem higher value but won't gimp your strength that much. Like on tier chest and other items.
    Last edited by naturestorm; 2012-12-19 at 08:17 AM.

  4. #4
    Keep in mind that even though haste value is > Str value it doesn`t provide any source of additional AE damage. So on a st fight you are better off with haste but as soon as a second target joins in the values change dramatically. I had about the same amoint of haste (~10500) and my DPS on almost every.boss went up when gemming Str/Haste.

  5. #5
    I'm personally going for at least 50% haste, gemming if needed. I feel that if I drop below 50% the idle gaps become too large and appear too often. Strictly a playstyle choice, though.

  6. #6
    AoE will make strength come back out on top again most likely (empress, wind lord, etc) and any fight that has heavy movement with lower than 100% uptime (Elegon, heroic vizier, ambershaper) hastes value will go down considerably compared to other stats. Haste gems > str for patchwerk sure, be careful about using them in reality though.

  7. #7
    More haste also has the benefit of cutting down on dead time between ability usage, which makes the spec a heck of a lot more fun to play than sitting around waiting.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Italiandk View Post
    Haste should become better once you get to BiS gear, before that strength should be better.

    You just need to run a simulation with your character and you are done
    Funny you should say that, I simmed my character and haste was stronger per point than strength, yet when I hit 490~ ilvl it was the other way round. Bizarre.

  9. #9
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    on a completely stationary, target dummy style fight haste would likely pull ahead, but any movement/downtime devalues it somewhat (and there's a load of fights with at least a bit of running/downtime) so I stick with str gems.

    Even on a patchwerk fight the difference would still be small, just go with whatever you play better with IMO

  10. #10
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aesr View Post
    Funny you should say that, I simmed my character and haste was stronger per point than strength, yet when I hit 490~ ilvl it was the other way round. Bizarre.
    Care to link your armory? I have 487 ilvl and gemming strength is better than gemming haste. I did also simulations with various set-up (t14 normal default profile, t14h BiS default profile, etc) that showed what I said in my previous post. That was with 5.1.0_5 simcraft tho, maybe something has changed with the latest version.
    Death Knight -> Italiandk
    Shaman -> Cashrain
    Paladin -> Healyoutru
    Priest -> Ängel
    Monk -> Skadoosh
    Mage -> Icydeath

  11. #11
    Haste is never and will be never stronger per point then strength. He ment that +320 haste outweights +160 strength, meaning haste is more then half of strength. But as stated before you are way better off with strength/haste then just "pure" haste as then you can pull dps on any encounter instead of "sucking" at AoE ones and outshining on single target ones.

    In 25m you might get off with gemming haste but in 10m you will most likely fail.

  12. #12
    If you use simcraft for your simulations enable the "plots" feature for the strength, weapon damage, and secondary stats. That will give you a reasonable estimate of the point where using primarily haste gems will/will not be better than strength. This point does change with significant gear updates though, so after you acquire a new piece or two it would be to your benefit to run the simulations again. I'm at 499 ilvl and 2 haste is still SLIGHTLY better than 1 strength. Whether you want to go with haste to maximize single target damage or accept a slight drop off on single target in favor of stronger AOE/cleave damage is up to you.

  13. #13
    Strength is a better stat, though due to the whole 320 haste vs 160 strength thing gemming for haste is better when you're playing 2h frost. Haste is pretty much a raw multiplier for all your damage except for diseases. The 200 dps difference is less important than following your personal preference imo. So do you want big numbers or more numbers?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by naturestorm
    Haste is never and will be never stronger per point then strength. He ment that +320 haste outweights +160 strength, meaning haste is more then half of strength. But as stated before you are way better off with strength/haste then just "pure" haste as then you can pull dps on any encounter instead of "sucking" at AoE ones and outshining on single target ones.

    In 25m you might get off with gemming haste but in 10m you will most likely fail.
    Yeah sorry, that's what I meant. Off the top of my head I think my weights were 2.8~ for strength and 1.3~ for haste.
    That being said, I completely agree on strength being more consistent when running 10s.

    Italiandk, I can't post links yet but if you search my username on eu armory you should find me. On a side note, I haven't been able to get the same results with the latest version of simcraft, I consistently get strength > haste, whereas the previous version would give me haste > strength.

  15. #15
    Realistically speaking if you're geared enough for haste gems to be better on paper you won't want to use them in a real encounter.

    Anti magic shell can provide an absolutely massive amount of runic power in many encounters this tier, often enough for us to be gcd locked with strength gems.

  16. #16
    I have been dabbling with using STR/Haste gems vs. All Haste and so far in the real world they are very close if not even, right now I'm testing Haste again. I'm 489 I level and I think the haste is a bit ahead but not sure... still testing lol.

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