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  1. #1

    How to get into a good HM guild when you don't have the best gear or experience?

    I want to get into a good HM guild because downing heroic end bosses is what appeals to me. It seems in my time playing that I've gotten with groups that progress too slow, aren't run right (people don't show up or do mediocre and yet are still kept on the team) and I don't get the level of progression down that the best guilds on my server are looking for. If you don't have the gear and experience that is almost at or at the level of the really good guilds they don't want you.

    I consider myself to be a smart informed player with a good attitude and I believe I can hang with really good players. I have a good mindset that focuses on finding out how to improve my play, stay positive and learn from mistakes. When learning a new fight I always seem to come up with ways of improving my performance and that of other group members even (though I never force my ideas and usually offer it just as something that they or we could try out). I try to learn from every pull. And I try to respect others points of view and be polite/respectful while still having fun. It seems that most high end guilds don't care as much about that as they do how much gear you have and how many HMs you've downed.

    So I'm curious to ask players who are in top guilds (like rank 2000 or better in US/EU/whatever region) how should a player who is say 483 ilvl and 6/6 MSV, 3/6 HoF, 2/4 no HMs yet (though I've watched many videos) currently go about getting into a guild that will realistically kill heroic end bosses pre nerf or close to that? Can any of you who were in a similar spot as myself relate how you overcame the barriers to getting into such guilds?

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer Rhys's Avatar
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    You are in the exact position I was in.

    I overcame it by coming to terms with the fact I'll never have what I want and settled with a 2/6 MSV normal guild I had some friends in.
    Unwilling member of the HotS alpha club.


  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhys View Post
    You are in the exact position I was in.

    I overcame it by coming to terms with the fact I'll never have what I want and settled with a 2/6 MSV normal guild I had some friends in.
    If your the type who doesn't like trying, than HM guilds aren't for you. If you really want to get to the top you need to work your way there. Find a guild slightly more progressed than yours, then gear up/gain enough experience until you can join another guild, which is slightly more progressed than your new guild. Repeat this cycle until you're as high as you want to go. The only thing holding you back is yourself if your passionate about doing it.

  4. #4
    Well being rather realistic here - chances of going from a not even normal modes clear guild to a top 50 world ranking guild in just one move are not really huge.
    Sure you might happen to have the right connection to get it done fast or may have a fitting overall background in gaming but I'd argue that most of the players don't really have that. Personally I guess I could consider myself quite lucky on this end.
    So in order to move up the ranks you will have to switch guilds. In your case that means leaving your guild and join something with let's say about 3-6 heroic kills ? It certainly helps to play a sought after class as well as it allows for bigger leaps in between guilds. Get geared - progress a bit and well as harsh as it may sound - move on from there.
    Last edited by cFortyfive; 2012-12-18 at 07:04 AM.

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer Rhys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steroidz View Post
    If your the type who doesn't like trying, than HM guilds aren't for you. If you really want to get to the top you need to work your way there. Find a guild slightly more progressed than yours, then gear up/gain enough experience until you can join another guild, which is slightly more progressed than your new guild. Repeat this cycle until you're as high as you want to go. The only thing holding you back is yourself if your passionate about doing it.
    Oh I did try, very hard, ever since late BC. But a man can only take so many declined apps, collapsed guilds and realm transfers. I've done everything short of changing my sleeping pattern to conform to US raiding times.

    So don't you question my dedication.
    Last edited by Rhys; 2012-12-18 at 07:10 AM.
    Unwilling member of the HotS alpha club.


  6. #6
    Brewmaster Zaxio's Avatar
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    Gear and current guid progres aint much matter here
    You need to prove to guild like that you are valiuble as player and show some really good history with your characters like realm first kills prenerf kills etc this helps a lot with good typed application
    Last edited by Zaxio; 2012-12-18 at 07:12 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhys View Post
    collapsed guilds and realm transfers.
    Well I know a couple specialists that had enough of these to fill a good bunch of college funds for Blizzard employees.

  8. #8
    Brewmaster ridish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steroidz View Post
    If your the type who doesn't like trying, than HM guilds aren't for you. If you really want to get to the top you need to work your way there. Find a guild slightly more progressed than yours, then gear up/gain enough experience until you can join another guild, which is slightly more progressed than your new guild. Repeat this cycle until you're as high as you want to go. The only thing holding you back is yourself if your passionate about doing it.
    Thats a move done by a true idiot. Sorry but it's true, a guild who invites you to raid with them expects you to stay even after you got some gear. They don't want you to grab all their loot and then move on to a better guild. If you join a guild and grab pieces of loot from them you stay until they are done with progression or until they don't want you there anymore. Obviously you can leave the guild if you find problems with the other raiders or the leadership of the guild but you DO NOT join a guild to let them boost you into a decent gear set and progression just so that you can leave the minute you find something better.

    Not that server rep matters anymore but when you did that back in the days it butchered your server rep and no guild wanted to have you.

    OT: If you want to join a good HC guild you simply apply on their forum or w/e they use. If it's a good guild they will be able to look past your progression and gear (assuming you know what the hell you are doing). Ask them if you could join them in some test runs and show them that you know what you are doing. Thats how i got one of the best members into my guild. He was playing pvp only before joining us and had neither gear or progression.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaxio View Post
    Gear and current guid progres aint much matter here
    You need to prove to guild like that you are valiuble as player and show some really good history with your characters like realm first kills prenerf kills etc this helps a lot with good typed application
    Yes if someone has these italicized credentials then great but most including myself do not.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ridish View Post
    Ask them if you could join them in some test runs and show them that you know what you are doing.
    Although I personally appreciate the attitude it doesn't really change that this is the safest way to rise through the ranks. Also the changing guilds faster than underwear or whatever mentality has grown pretty normal nowadays.
    And out of pure curiosity ...I suppose the person in question was at least somewhat known on your server ? I have a hard time imagining a to a certain extent progress pushing guild wasting time on every random application.
    Last edited by cFortyfive; 2012-12-18 at 07:25 AM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by steroidz View Post
    If your the type who doesn't like trying, than HM guilds aren't for you. If you really want to get to the top you need to work your way there. Find a guild slightly more progressed than yours, then gear up/gain enough experience until you can join another guild, which is slightly more progressed than your new guild. Repeat this cycle until you're as high as you want to go. The only thing holding you back is yourself if your passionate about doing it.
    You serios?? If u leave let's say 3 guilds just to get gear and work yourself for the top guild, you will have a bad reputation until u reach there and no1 will invite

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by steroidz View Post
    If your the type who doesn't like trying, than HM guilds aren't for you. If you really want to get to the top you need to work your way there. Find a guild slightly more progressed than yours, then gear up/gain enough experience until you can join another guild, which is slightly more progressed than your new guild. Repeat this cycle until you're as high as you want to go. The only thing holding you back is yourself if your passionate about doing it.
    If you do this and not staying on the same server, tell the current guild you want to do 10/25man (whichever is opposite of what they are) or you have a buddy you want to raid with. Make sure you change your name and don't keep them on RID/Battletag.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-17 at 11:31 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by pufyanny View Post
    You serios?? If u leave let's say 3 guilds just to get gear and work yourself for the top guild, you will have a bad reputation until u reach there and no1 will invite
    It was pretty standard in TBC before Blizzard boosted people to current content. Many guilds got stuck in progression hell where they could never get out of the tier they were in.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  13. #13
    One thing I look for in applications is how they actually play their character. I look at logs very thoroughly when replying to applications for the guild I'm a part of (us top 25) as the logs are a direct picture of how they play their character. I look to see whether they are executing their rotation properly, using their cooldowns properly, and whether they execute mechanics properly. If someone can do that then I'm generally on board with giving someone a chance.

    Case in point, I had to give a recommendation on 2 different Hunter's. One had no heroic raiding experience and one had half decent experience. The normal mode raider played near absoluely perfect, to the point where I was confident that they could step in and execute effectively.

    We passed on that raider for the person with the experience, and that raider we passed on ended up getting into a US top 5 guild last time I checked.

    Moral of the story is that just because someone doesn't have experience doesn't mean they aren't good enough, and almost any serious guild will see a potential gem in the rough when given the opportunity to look for it They may not get recruited, but proper logs go a long way towards showing your potential in a heroic raid setting when you have very little experience or gear. You can rest assured that serious guilds won't look at your DPS and laugh because it's so low. They will look to your logs to see how you arrived at that DPS and maybe give you a shot in an interview if they like what they see.

  14. #14
    You won't, that's the answer you will get from every "good" heroic raiding guild - you simply don't have the experience or the gear. You need to apply to a guild who hasn't really done much in this content and is still progressing and willing to try you out. If you finally managed to get into a decent guild you start to kill some bosses on heroic, gear up and maybe you can raid in a better guild with the next content. People tend to take a break or quit the game after the progress is over and maybe you are lucky enough to get a spot in a better ranked guild. Wordoflogs is also a really good way to show a guild that you are a good and valuable player if you are performing good DPS-wise.

    Go to worldoflogs, start parsing on your own and apply to a guild with these logs. If you are really interested in performing better then you need to start looking into player specific logs, compare your logs with logs from other player who are doing more damage and learn from it. If you are absolutely convinced that you are doing everything right then you won't be able to do much without more gear and you can explain it by simply telling the truth in yoru application - you are a dedicated player with little to no experience and you want a chance to prove yourself.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by nijuu View Post
    You won't, that's the answer you will get from every "good" heroic raiding guild - you simply don't have the experience or the gear. You need to apply to a guild who hasn't really done much in this content and is still progressing and willing to try you out. If you finally managed to get into a decent guild you start to kill some bosses on heroic, gear up and maybe you can raid in a better guild with the next content. People tend to take a break or quit the game after the progress is over and maybe you are lucky enough to get a spot in a better ranked guild. Wordoflogs is also a really good way to show a guild that you are a good and valuable player if you are performing good DPS-wise.

    Go to worldoflogs, start parsing on your own and apply to a guild with these logs. If you are really interested in performing better then you need to start looking into player specific logs, compare your logs with logs from other player who are doing more damage and learn from it. If you are absolutely convinced that you are doing everything right then you won't be able to do much without more gear and you can explain it by simply telling the truth in yoru application - you are a dedicated player with little to no experience and you want a chance to prove yourself.

    This is not true. While past raiding experience is great, it isn't necessary as most top guilds are willing to take on new, potentially exceptional recruits during their farm period. If someone presents logs that show they can execute their class with extreme skill, I don't care if they are 16/16 HC or 16/16 Normal, I'll at least advocate for them to get an interview.

    Heck, it's how I got my start in high end raiding. I provided exceptional logs and managed to get into one of the top 25 man guilds in North America (not my current guild) back in WoTLK. All it takes is player skill, and it's one of those things that if you have it, you will eventually get a shot.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhys View Post
    Oh I did try, very hard, ever since late BC. But a man can only take so many declined apps, collapsed guilds and realm transfers. I've done everything short of changing my sleeping pattern to conform to US raiding times.

    So don't you question my dedication.
    You tried very hard and settled with a guild that can only kill 2 bosses in a tier that has been out since October? You essentially told him to give up, which is why I rightly questioned your dedication.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-18 at 03:00 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ridish View Post
    Thats a move done by a true idiot. Sorry but it's true, a guild who invites you to raid with them expects you to stay even after you got some gear. They don't want you to grab all their loot and then move on to a better guild. If you join a guild and grab pieces of loot from them you stay until they are done with progression or until they don't want you there anymore. Obviously you can leave the guild if you find problems with the other raiders or the leadership of the guild but you DO NOT join a guild to let them boost you into a decent gear set and progression just so that you can leave the minute you find something better.

    Not that server rep matters anymore but when you did that back in the days it butchered your server rep and no guild wanted to have you.

    OT: If you want to join a good HC guild you simply apply on their forum or w/e they use. If it's a good guild they will be able to look past your progression and gear (assuming you know what the hell you are doing). Ask them if you could join them in some test runs and show them that you know what you are doing. Thats how i got one of the best members into my guild. He was playing pvp only before joining us and had neither gear or progression.
    No kidding they want you to stay, but your own interests come before those of anyone else if you want to win. With his experience he most likely can't get accepted to a guild that is greater than world 500. In order to be in a position where he will stand a chance to be accepted he must bolster his resume, due to the nature of the game, guild hopping is the only way if he wants to do it before this tier is no longer current.

    Does it suck for the guilds who will erroneously invest in him? Of course it does, but they aren't paying his subscription, nor is he obligated to make his playing experience less enjoyable for the sake of another player(s).

  17. #17
    The way I did it (which might not be the easiest solution, but it still possible nevertheless), is by finding a new "motivated" guild master (it could be you), that aimed at a reasonably high level (clean hm before end of patch), and was determined to it, on a pretty high pop server. It then takes lots of recruitment effort (you'll have to accept doubtful applications from "bad" player for a time, and keep refusing them or kicking them every so often, in order to keep the good player you might find), and it get really hard after a few months when you'll most probably have to kick some player that where here from the start because they're not good enough. In our case we had to "kick" the gm at some point (we had to create a new guild...), and I became gm for a few months, before managing to give it to another player (I'm still in the roster, and still raid leader, but not guild master anymore).

    Basically, in this case you should be really "open" on the recruitment for some time, and really try to keep the good player you have by showing them how motivated you are that the guild progress as fast as possible, keep the recruitment for all class that you feel are doing sub-par open as long as you don't find a player you feel is good enough, and be extremely clear with apply that they are going to stay in the guild only as long as they are "good enough", so that they'll know what to expect if you have to kick them.

    Especially when you're guild master, it takes lots of time, and it's really stressing to keep accepting new players to kick potentially old friends. Also be aware that you'll have to keep playing at a good level in raid constantly, because once you set the "progression" into motion, you won't be able to stop it when it'll be your turn to be "the weakest link", and I know that despite all the bonds I have in my guild and all the work I do as raid leader, there are other people in the guild ready to take my place if it ever become clear that they'll do it better than me and I'm playing sub-par for too long (remember we had to kick our original gm, and it forced us to change the guild tag and start back to a level 1 guild)

    edit : for "time frame" : we created the guild in 4.1 (February 2011), could not clean 4.1 before 4.2 but managed to kill Ragnaros HM the very last day of 4.2 (just before the p4 nerf), finished 4.3 with the 10% nerf (spine@5%) and are currently 9/16hm, on one of the most populated French realm (EU-Ysondre), so it's not an instantaneous transition, but it's still "okay" enough in my opinion.
    Last edited by Bethan; 2012-12-18 at 08:06 AM.

  18. #18
    Warchief MickM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steroidz View Post
    If your the type who doesn't like trying, than HM guilds aren't for you. If you really want to get to the top you need to work your way there. Find a guild slightly more progressed than yours, then gear up/gain enough experience until you can join another guild, which is slightly more progressed than your new guild. Repeat this cycle until you're as high as you want to go. The only thing holding you back is yourself if your passionate about doing it.
    Woow wow wow, ease off buddy! Just because a server doesn't have the same offering of HM guilds, doesn't mean Rhys is not trying...

  19. #19
    The Patient
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    So don't you question my dedication.
    dedication to what? Pixels? No, Serous. WoW just a game. I used to think being up top in a good guild was all great. I ended up getting into group 2 of the best raiding guild on my server. Great for me right? Came at a price. People would send me tells saying i was a dick and no lifer. Most people wouldnt give me the time of day.

    Then i had to deal with the dicks in group 1 because they thoght everything was below them. I learned i was turning into the same type of person so i let it go.
    My advice is this, Find out what you really want to do in the game. I used to think it was Raiding too. Then i got in PvP hooked up with some REAL friends and now we go RGB's and ACH's runs having a blast. Raiding isnt everything.

    Its a job. Why would you pay to go to work? Ach's and gear? Invaild. Just wait intill the next Expac and farm everything easy. Same gear/tranmogs/mounts and ACH's all the " Elite " players have but you got them in under 10% the effort. Making them look stupid. +1 for you is allways nice.
    GC : Reclaimer, Everything you say is real and I respect you because you tell it.
    Reclaimer : When you say " Plz " instead of please, I say " No " because its shorter than Yes.
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  20. #20
    seems to me like you think you're better then you actuallly are,
    483 ilvl can be easily achieved by casual players, you are not even trying enough to gear up with valor gear.

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