Proof gun control doesn't work.

[This name sucks]

Actually, I'm pointing out that comparing ONLY gun-related violent crime between the US and literally any other comparable country is fucking stupid because the US has more guns, period, than those other countries. This logically means those guns will be seen in crimes more frequently.

It doesn't mean that those guns are causing crimes, only that they're being used in crimes that may have happened without the guns regardless.

Sounds like a problem.

If guns aren't the issue what is the reason that the US has a disproportionately high amount of insane murderous psychopaths compared to the rest of the world.

[Evil Inside]

Sorry i can't post links, but if you google "Stabbing in Japan" Theres about 30 people dead in just the first page.
the Osaka school massacre is a perfect example of, even if they don't have guns, they will still try to kill people.

Though look at australia, hardly no guncrime and no mass shootings in the 17 or so years since gun control was implemented.

[This name sucks]

Sounds like a problem.

If guns aren't the issue what is the reason that the US has a disproportionately high amount of insane murderous psychopaths compared to the rest of the world.

And stop using "Culture" as a fucking cop out.

Culture does not in any way influence your decision of "Should I kill 2 dozen kids at a school or just watch tv today"

[Underverse]

Actually, I'm pointing out that comparing ONLY gun-related violent crime between the US and literally any other comparable country is fucking stupid because the US has more guns, period, than those other countries. This logically means those guns will be seen in crimes more frequently.

It doesn't mean that those guns are causing crimes, only that they're being used in crimes that may have happened without the guns regardless.

Yeah, it is stupid to just point out crimes carried out with one type of weaponry, as you can see in the knife/Japan example the OP brought to us.

That being said, I don't think what you're railing about was crimes, but rather deaths. An important distinction, because crimes carried out with guns usually have more deadly results than crimes carried out without guns.

[Verain]

I want the next school massacre to involve chemistry.

The biggest ones in the US just flat out involve dynamite. Don't wish for that again.

[Deleted]

And stop using "Culture" as a fucking cop out.

Culture does not in any way influence your decision of "Should I kill 2 dozen kids at a school or just watch tv today"

Culture does play in though. If you have a culture in which violence is an acceptable way to resolve conflicts then people in that culture are more likely to prefer violence when solving conflicts.

Still, the problem with Lanza was clearly that he needed professional help, not that he had access to guns (sort of how the main issue with drug addicts isn't the guns, it's whatever caused them to turn to drugs as a "solution" in the first place).

[jbombard]

There is no correlation between gun ownership and violent crime.

Read this: http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/...useronline.pdf

If you actually go by the numbers, a higher rate of ownership would indicate LESS CRIME not more. The reality is these types of comparisons aren't really valid, as the % of citizens that own guns doesn't affect the crime rate nearly as much as culture(and a variety of other factors). Look at Canada they have a high rate of gun ownership but low crime rates. That it isn't to say that a weapon ban wouldn't decrease the crime rate in the United States, it simply says there is no data to backup that claim.
Anyway the above PDF is a good read put together by a pair of expert Criminologists.

[PizzaSHARK]

Sounds like a problem.

If guns aren't the issue what is the reason that the US has a disproportionately high amount of insane murderous psychopaths compared to the rest of the world.

Shit, man, where do we start? We share a large, unfortunately porous border with Mexico, who within the past several years has been having a lot of issues with drug cartels waging war with each other... which I'm sure consumers in the US have something to do with. These turf wars spill over into gang-controlled areas in American states and cities.

We also have no nationalized healthcare, and the relevant part is no nationalized mental care for people with mental diseases. Worse, we treat diseases like depression as if it's nothing more than a bad mood - omg emo kid stop crying, your life is fine!

We've also got a culture that reveres and glorifies guns, going all the way back to the start of our country and especially during the ethnic cleansing of the west. Cowboys and indians, man. John Wayne, Clint Eastwood.

We also have a completely fucking pointless and useless penal system that doesn't even have rehabilitation as part of its working vocabulary, and this is tied into everything else.

And then you have a weakened economy caused by irresponsible spending and behavior, and there are plenty of data that can tie a pretty solid line between poverty and crime.

Honestly, there's more than that and probably a lot I'm missing or forgetting, but it's just some of the reasons we have a lot of crime, particularly in border states (LA, San Diego, El Paso, take your fucking pick) and cities hit hard by the recession (Detroit and Pittsburgh especially.)

[Underverse]

No it isn't. Mental disorders aren't a "cultural thing". Do you think the gangs in Chicago who use guns on each other belong to the same culture as Lanza?

When were we talking about Lanza? I was just talking about people who kill other people with guns. To add to that, mental disorders often have their roots in cultural mechanisms; not always, but often. And, considering that Lanza grew up mystified by the Chicago gangsters and other gun-wielding individuals placed in a position of fame, I wouldn't doubt that part of that culture was adopted by Lanza, as it is by many of us.

[Dhurn]

The qualification for gun control being successful is not "all violent crime comes to a screeching halt"

[LolretKJ]

Japan also has one of the highest suicide rates in the world. Which is more tragic do you think?

Can you provide me with a document from a legitimate source that shows that information?

And also, why is this even relevant?

[PizzaSHARK]

When were we talking about Lanza? I was just talking about people who kill other people with guns. To add to that, mental disorders often have their roots in cultural mechanisms; not always, but often. And, considering that Lanza grew up mystified by the Chicago gangsters and other gun-wielding individuals placed in a position of fame, I wouldn't doubt that part of that culture was adopted by Lanza, as it is by many of us.

Agreed. The American West and 1920s Gangland are really popular settings for a reason.

[Danifilth]

Sorry to say this japan is not america i don't know why everyone compares america to another country after someone gets shot

[PizzaSHARK]

The qualification for gun control being successful is not "all violent crime comes to a screeching halt"

Then what's the goal?

[jbombard]

Shit, man, where do we start? We share a large, unfortunately porous border with Mexico, who within the past several years has been having a lot of issues with drug cartels waging war with each other... which I'm sure consumers in the US have something to do with. These turf wars spill over into gang-controlled areas in American states and cities.

We also have no nationalized healthcare, and the relevant part is no nationalized mental care for people with mental diseases. Worse, we treat diseases like depression as if it's nothing more than a bad mood - omg emo kid stop crying, your life is fine!

We've also got a culture that reveres and glorifies guns, going all the way back to the start of our country and especially during the ethnic cleansing of the west. Cowboys and indians, man. John Wayne, Clint Eastwood.

We also have a completely fucking pointless and useless penal system that doesn't even have rehabilitation as part of its working vocabulary, and this is tied into everything else.

And then you have a weakened economy caused by irresponsible spending and behavior, and there are plenty of data that can tie a pretty solid line between poverty and crime.

Honestly, there's more than that and probably a lot I'm missing or forgetting, but it's just some of the reasons we have a lot of crime, particularly in border states (LA, San Diego, El Paso, take your fucking pick) and cities hit hard by the recession (Detroit and Pittsburgh especially.)

Indeed. And note that while there is no correlation between gun ownership and the crime rate, there IS a very strong correlation between income disparity and the homocide/violent crime rate. And the income gap in the United States continues to widen.

[WurstKaeseSzenario]

Sorry i can't post links, but if you google "Stabbing in Japan" Theres about 30 people dead in just the first page.
the Osaka school massacre is a perfect example of, even if they don't have guns, they will still try to kill people.

1. You should learn what the word "proof" means.

2. I think most persons running amok won't have the guts to do it with a knife.

3. I'm pretty sure there are way more people killed by firearms than by "melee" weapons - even if you don't count war victims.

[Underverse]

Then what's the goal?

I think the goal is to reduce violent crime, or at least gun-related crime.

I would feel safer if there was less gun-related crime, even if crime rates stayed the same, because I can run from a knife. Can't run from dual-wield glocks

[jbombard]

I think the goal is to reduce violent crime, or at least gun-related crime.

I would feel safer if there was less gun-related crime, even if crime rates stayed the same, because I can run from a knife. Can't run from dual-wield glocks

The thing is though, the data just doesn't support that goal. There is absolutely no data that says increasing gun control reduces violent crime, in fact data says the opposite.

[Evil Inside]

Sorry to say this japan is not america i don't know why everyone compares america to another country after someone gets shot

Because those countries have gun control and it works for them.

[skrump]

How often does that happen, and how high is the crime rate in Japan, compared to the US (or any Western nation for that matter?)

The crime rates in those countries are not lower because of the lack of guns, they are lower because the punishments handed out are far more severe and their legal systems actually work because they don't care about the rights of the criminal and they have much more effective means of catching said criminals without the fear of abusing someones personal privacy.