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  1. #1

    Unhappy Help on Elegon 10m normal

    So we are a raid team that has been together since the start of MoP but it seems to me we only progress when we overgear an encounter.

    We don't have a raid leader that knows all classes and critiques them so we rely on individuals to play their class and maximise their own contribution and I am not convinced that is happening.

    Recently we have been wiping on Elegon, normally due to poor management of the adds between phases with healers dieing before the adds go down.

    I would really appreciate some analysis of the logs linked below and any positive feedback we can get for any of the classes.

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/p3p1a0kjana3cr87/

    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    The Patient Mûe's Avatar
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    Ok, so im lookin at you logs right now: First Thing, you usually dont 3 heal it so every add has a player on it to kill with tanks helping out ony dot/ramp up classes. So 6 DPS

    The DPS is extremely low on some parts, but ill take a look at a couple of players right now.

    One question: What is the rogue doing and how does he justify beeing in this raid?

  3. #3
    DPS is low across the board and I'm going to assume you're not killing your pillars at the same time, which is causing your add issue.
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  4. #4
    Use Heroism
    Bring 6 DPS
    Stack in the center after going back to phase one every time until the Big Add comes out, then run out with it to drop your stacks.
    Kill five orbs each wave to get 12 stacks on the boss. It's possible to do with only 6 stacks on Elegon in the final phase if your dps is extremely good (which it isn't).
    Kill all the Walls at the same time, so he spawns less adds (And don't stand in electricity, or root the adds. Stun 'em & Tank 'em).

    Edit: It's impressive that you're all still together after 88 (recorded) attempts on him, are you bringing new people each week?
    Last edited by Exac; 2012-12-20 at 09:12 AM.

  5. #5
    ok, I have to admit, I'm a total newb when it comes to WoL, because I really don't care about it :P

    but what Mue said is completely true, you need to 2 heal it, assign 1 DPS to every pillar, and reset stacks in between sparks.
    1 tank at each side of 3. and kill the pillar of your spark to attempt simultanous pillar destruction (this has a good reason)
    for all intents and purposes, you should have elegon below 75% HP before you have to kill pillars (this is at 5 stacks, so ea DPS kills 4 sparks)

    once all the pillars are down, get together at a good spot (we do next to the console) have 1 tank pick up all the spawned adds, and try to rotate CC on them.
    other tanks picks up elegon as soon as the floor starts to reappear.

    Copy, paste for rest of fight.
    P3, depending on the healers, the reaction time of your DPS and the number of melees you bring, either stack on boss to zerg him, or stack near edge to reset debuff
    (for reference, try to bring boss below 35% before you have to kill pillars 2nd time)

  6. #6
    After a couple of nights working on this fight we got it by these main points:

    1. Keep your two best ranged DPS on the boss, other dps kill the protectors. This helps beat enrage timer.
    2. Kill pillars simultaneously or close to it for less adds.
    3. At the start of the final phase all stack under the boss ASAP and go for broke rotating CDs
    4. Kill 4 waves of orbs then dps the boss hard as the 5th is making its way to the pillars

    That was pretty much a win.

  7. #7
    I play a Rogue, so I can speak best about Helfzz. Their spec and reforging etc. looks fine for combat. Combat is pretty heavily weapon dependent, so I see they just got the fist weapon and dagger, what were they using before then?

    You're taking the adds down to around 25% on the energy floor before taking them off, right? Otherwise they take too long to kill. Combat overall isn't very good at single target DPS compared to Assassination IMHO. They should be on the boss more as well. I see them helping out with Cosmic sparks and other stuff a large amount. I assume fighting them off the platform where you do +50% dmg as well.

    In comparison: I finished Elegon this week at around 135kdps with 10 or 11 stacks. Assassination spec 488 ilvl with 480 daggers. 57M dmg on Elegon.

    Try to shoot for at least 10 stacks if not 11. I can't explain only 50kdps even with 9 stacks as I said unless they're spending an inordinate about of time fighting stuff off the platform.

  8. #8
    After a quick look at longest attempt, it looks like you died from a late posistioning/lust/sparks.

    try;
    - after pillars (no dps should attack sparks during pillars so tanks agro) all run to the control panel, then as the floor spawns just instantly run to the boss, ignore the adds so you get some free time. Stack on side of boss, instantly heroism and aoe heal / dps the crap out of adds, using a rallying cry and what not to survive (SPT?). After that its a free kill if you dont go oom :P

    Stack on side, kill adds, nuke, do not reset stats.
    After add tank is finished with adds, he taunts elegon, other tank resets stacks, then takes elegon back and that tank resets stats.. repeat till dead.
    Last edited by TwentyTwelve; 2012-12-20 at 11:51 AM.

  9. #9
    Without looking at anything more than that you have a warlock in the raid. Trivialize the fight by having your warlock get MF and aoe the energy charges down, it's so much easier, it also helps with killing the cosmic sparks that spawns during the pillar phase.

    This means your warlock is not killing a dedicated energy charge, this is handled by the offtank, all others are handled by one dps each (you need to two heal this, no reason to use three)

    I checked your longest try, wipe #6 and I have no clue how the whole raid can be sub 100k dps, that's not even possible in 470. Unless you had two stacks, which I hope you didn't. Having one ranged isn't really helping your case neither but it's still doable.
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  10. #10
    Bloodsail Admiral Seregon's Avatar
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    Below is our first Elegon kill (with ventrilo). Maybe that will give you some ideas. Personally, when we're struggling on an encounter, I like to watch vids of kills with ventrilo on it and try to understand what's going on and what people are doing. Maybe this vid can do the same for you.

    Some general pointers (that I can't see mentioned) that helped us:
    - Keep 1-2 ranged dps on the boss for the whole duration of stage 1 in order to push phase changes after 2 and 3 adds respectively. (I think that's what we do in the video) If you can't manage this, I doubt you'll make the berserk timer. At least that was our experience.
    - When getting back to the console thing in the middle after the wall phases, try not to stack up too much. Adds are still spawning at this point and if you're stacked too much, they will spawn on everyone.
    - Get onto the floor as soon as it comes up for healing increase on everyone and damage increase on the little adds. (Stacking in the middle until first protector, as mentioned above, is probably not a bad idea either).
    - We managed our first kill by killing only 4 waves of adds (stage 2). I can't exactly tell from your logs whether you'll be able to do the same, but at least that's what we did.
    - Communication during stage 2 is important. If anyone needs help with their orbs, they should shout it out. This will allow for the tank on the corresponding side to divert his attention to the orb that needs help.

    Last edited by Seregon; 2012-12-20 at 12:08 PM.

  11. #11
    Moderator Sonnillon's Avatar
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    Firstly. If you have trouble with DPS and they don't improve on their own and you don't want to kick them from your raid group -ask advice for them in the respective class forums.

    Most definitely 2 heal. It is not that hard if your healers have some clue on how to heal ^^

    First round get to 2 protectors only. Kill the first one, leave the second one alone and bring boss to 85%, then nuke the second protector. Before Annihilation make sure that everyone (except the tank on elagon) resets their stacks and people are topped up before the explosion. Keep the protector in the shield until it reaches 25% and after that drag it out. The protector has a green buff. It stays green when it takes normal damage and turns read when it takes reduced damage. When the add gets to 25%, the buff dissapears.

    Now that you 2 heal and have 6 DPS, you can assign each DPS to a pillar. Split your raid in "half". Where one side with 3 pillars (console is the "middle") has 3 DPS and other 3 DPS as well. Make sure that you DO NOT put onto one side 2 lowest DPS. Your tanks should help out on taking out the sparks, by DPSing the spark which is assigned to the lowest DPS. Others in range should help as well if they see that someone is in trouble. Make sure that your DPS stand in the shielded area to boost their DPS.
    Now that you have 2 groups for both sides, just assign healer to each side, who is responsible in keeping up people.

    Also take out 4 rounds of sparks, ignore the 5th one. Best for people is to save their lighter DPS CD and for energy/focus based classes to save the resource for the 4th spark.

    Once you push the boss to the transition with the adds, make sure that everyone of the DPS take out the pillar to which spark they were assigned to. Help others if needed. One healer/tank for each side. Try to kill pillars at the same time to minimize the amount of adds you get. Don't stand in the circles where the adds spawn, as those hurt. The small adds are CC'ble, so root/slow them as much as possible while kiting them to the console. There have the tank with best AoE pick them up and drag to boss for cleaves. When the adds are up tell your DPS not to DPS the adds until they are stacked up. Healers should not stand still like dolls and move when they have adds on them, preferably to proximity of the tank(s).

    Once the transition is over rinse and repeat until the last phase. Make sure people are topped up before annihilation and reset their stacks properly. In the phase with protectors, kill first 2, then leave the 3rd one and bring the boss to 50%, burn the 3rd add and continue on.

    Once you've gotten the pillars down for the second time, be fast on moving and as soon as the floor spawn, move onto it, as the outside area will be a bad place to stand. Bunch up on boss and blow your defensive and healing CD's, also the DPS ones.

    Your DPS should be using their own def. CD as much as possible when the adds are up or in the last phase as your healers will be close to OOM.

    ----------------------------------------------------
    I would like to say something to you tanking druid. He should be using his FR more. With high vengeance the heal is a nice thing to help your healers out with high stacks right after the breath.

    Dodge is not that good of a stat any more, neither is agility. SD will give you 45% dodge if used, with a trinket it is more then enough for bosses that hit truly hard, but fights were the magic dmg is split with melee, dodge is not superior.

    He should go for hit hard cap (2550) and try to get as much as expertise as possible. He should go with hit hard cap => expertise soft cap > crit > more exp > haste > mastery > dodge. He generates rage when his mangle and autoattack hit/crit the boss. The more crits the better. More energy for focus, which means you can use SD and FR often.

    Pure colored gems are not that decent any more. red socket - expertise/crit, yellow socket - crit, blue socket - expertise/stamina.

    He should go with unglyphed FR IMHO. Get glyph of survival instincts.

    This has worked for me fine on most encounters (even when I had lower gear) - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...C3%AD/advanced . In bear form I have around 590ish HP with fortitude.

    ------------------------------------------------------
    In our kill no one reset the stacks, not even tanks. We just kept taunting off from each other when one was getting to low on HP to give healers time to heal the other. None of our DPS's stayed on boss constantly. Only of there was nothing else to kill.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/g...?s=8431&e=8907 <- our logs from the first kill. All I can tell you that this was almost the last go of the evening and people were motivated as Elagon has been a splinter in a butt for a while.
    Setup: pala/druid tanks; shaman/pala healers; lock, priest, rogue, hunter, mage, monk as DPS

    Our kill: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=W-03J7UHrFw
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2012-12-20 at 01:03 PM.
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  12. #12
    Thanks for all the replies I will make sure everyone reads them and see if they pick up some pointers.

    Some responses to comments made:

    The Rogue is a very late starter to MoP and still gearing up - we dragged him to the fight as we were a man down.
    He is a very experienced raider and will be in our top dps soon!

    We normally two heal (Shaman (me) and HPala) http://worldoflogs.com/reports/j23yo...pes&boss=60410, but we tried three healing a few attempts to see how we went as there was concern we would not cope with the final phase with two healers.

    Our dps is good enough to only get two protectors on start up but we are probably not managing the phase change very well. Generally we manage four sparks each time, if we go for five, we fail sometimes, so better to stay on boss.

    I feel like we know the tacts (hope so after so many wipes ) We are just not executing them well. On the pillars we try dps ing to 20%, call out our name and stop until all six ppl have called out, then finish them off. Generally this works but not always.

  13. #13
    Just my 2 cents for this fight. I've done it on 2 characters, a warrior and a frost mage. Seems like a fair number of classes are having difficulty getting down the 4th round of energy charges (and sometimes the 3rd). I know both of my toons depend on procs and crits. If I get none, then mine doesn't die. My guild has 3 teams going atm, and 1 is stuck on Elegon for about 6 weeks now. The issue is still getting enough charges down. They cannot consistently get 4 the first time and 3 or more the 2nd time.

    WTB more burst dps...

  14. #14
    Brewmaster smegdawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kastodian View Post
    I feel like we know the tacts (hope so after so many wipes ) We are just not executing them well. On the pillars we try dps ing to 20%, call out our name and stop until all six ppl have called out, then finish them off. Generally this works but not always.
    The way that works best for my team to do this is.

    -Firstly go for killing 4 sparks and letting the 5th through. 10 is more then enough stacks on the boss, and its not worth it to lose that extra ~5-10% you can knock off between when the 4th spark dies and the floor disappears( but you seem to be already doing that so keep it up).
    -For the pillars the I split the dps according to their strength. split your two highest and two lowest dps. Then split the remaining two as well.
    -Put your lowest dps on the pillar that is closest to the Console on both sides, and have them stay on it till it is dead.
    -Put the other two dps on each side on the pillar farthest away from the console.
    -The back pillar will get to 0% first, and if you evenly split your dps each side should get there at relatively the same.
    -Then have the dps move to the middle pillar, again, these should hit 0% fairly close together and give you your first stack on the boss.
    -By this time your Low dps should have the front pillar either dead or close to dead and the others can help him finish it off.

    This works very well for us, and if you do it correctly will also get you the achievement. It also prevents you from having to stop dps which makes the fight a little bit shorter.

    This was definitely our key strat to killing it the first time.

  15. #15
    How is it you can tell a groups RaidDPS is too low if they don't make it to the final phase of the fight on a regular basis? Considering logs being linked by groups that have downed the boss. Your Raid DPS is going to be way higher than someone who hasn't killed since your getting 8-11 stacks on boss with heroism to push the last phase. Lot's of problems I've seen personally as my group is also stuck on this boss, are the phases aren't executed properly somewhere along the line. And extra protector spawns during first phase the group behind as you push boss to 85% at same time last protector is dying. Someone can't take down a 3rd or 4th spark. So your Raid DPS drops with less stacks and also means your whole group is out of position for the orbs phase if the first part happens.

  16. #16
    Stood in the Fire Fiercon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smegdawg View Post
    The way that works best for my team to do this is.

    -Firstly go for killing 4 sparks and letting the 5th through. 10 is more then enough stacks on the boss, and its not worth it to lose that extra ~5-10% you can knock off between when the 4th spark dies and the floor disappears( but you seem to be already doing that so keep it up).
    -For the pillars the I split the dps according to their strength. split your two highest and two lowest dps. Then split the remaining two as well.
    -Put your lowest dps on the pillar that is closest to the Console on both sides, and have them stay on it till it is dead.
    -Put the other two dps on each side on the pillar farthest away from the console.
    -The back pillar will get to 0% first, and if you evenly split your dps each side should get there at relatively the same.
    -Then have the dps move to the middle pillar, again, these should hit 0% fairly close together and give you your first stack on the boss.
    -By this time your Low dps should have the front pillar either dead or close to dead and the others can help him finish it off.

    This works very well for us, and if you do it correctly will also get you the achievement. It also prevents you from having to stop dps which makes the fight a little bit shorter.

    This was definitely our key strat to killing it the first time.
    A very nice summary which also answers a question that lurked in my mind all the time. Does "killing" mean destroying both pylons or bringing 1 (of two connected) to zero.
    From your comments I get, that Elegon will only get stacks if two opposing pylons die. That gives my guys more room for helping out. Now I can say "Bring it to zero and go to the middle!" instead of "Bring it to X% then wait for a go, then see who needs help most blah blah".

    Good luck OP, my raid still needs it too

  17. #17
    Brewmaster smegdawg's Avatar
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    @Slakr, You mentioned a couple of reasons why people who have downed the boss are able to say, "Your raid dps is to low." If for example your dps cannot push the first orb phase before the 3rd Protector, it has multiple repercussions. Your healers have to now heal necessary damage and when you are two healing it can cause issues later on when they are out of mana during the burn phase. Your dots( or dps who are slow to switch to the protector) could push him into the orb phase and create many more problems for you to handle. Its one of the fights where its fairly easy to tell that if you don't get "Here" by "Then," the fight is going to get much more difficult. There is always the chance you will pull a kill outta the fire, but because small mistakes multiple pretty quickly on this boss, its a small chance.

    @Fiercon- You got it exactly right. Its a subtle difference, but a very important one, Good Luck to you! You'll get it soon.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by smegdawg View Post
    @Slakr, You mentioned a couple of reasons why people who have downed the boss are able to say, "Your raid dps is to low." If for example your dps cannot push the first orb phase before the 3rd Protector, it has multiple repercussions. Your healers have to now heal necessary damage and when you are two healing it can cause issues later on when they are out of mana during the burn phase. Your dots( or dps who are slow to switch to the protector) could push him into the orb phase and create many more problems for you to handle. Its one of the fights where its fairly easy to tell that if you don't get "Here" by "Then," the fight is going to get much more difficult. There is always the chance you will pull a kill outta the fire, but because small mistakes multiple pretty quickly on this boss, its a small chance.

    @Fiercon- You got it exactly right. Its a subtle difference, but a very important one, Good Luck to you! You'll get it soon.
    On our first few kills, we only killed three sparks each wave and let the fourth through. While killing four would be nice, it's hardly necessary.

    We never three healed it. It's just not necessary.
    Humans are the only species on the planet smart enough to be this stupid.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by CallMeGrey View Post
    Just my 2 cents for this fight. I've done it on 2 characters, a warrior and a frost mage. Seems like a fair number of classes are having difficulty getting down the 4th round of energy charges (and sometimes the 3rd). I know both of my toons depend on procs and crits. If I get none, then mine doesn't die. My guild has 3 teams going atm, and 1 is stuck on Elegon for about 6 weeks now. The issue is still getting enough charges down. They cannot consistently get 4 the first time and 3 or more the 2nd time.

    WTB more burst dps...
    It's hard to burst 700k damage in 11 seconds with a 50% damage buff? Learn to time procs / cooldowns with waves 3 and 4.

    How did you guys get past H Spine of Deathwing if your DPS don't know how to maximize DPS in a burst window?

  20. #20
    Brewmaster smegdawg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karazee View Post
    On our first few kills, we only killed three sparks each wave and let the fourth through. While killing four would be nice, it's hardly necessary.

    We never three healed it. It's just not necessary.
    For a progressed group that every player is on top of their game, sure. Neither of those two problems are an issue.

    For a group that is 3 months into the x-pac and having issues with the fourth raid boss that may not be the case.

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