Ask MrRobot vs Simcraft

[MrHappy]

Hello fellow Warlocks!

So I have been looking around for some tweaks to my set-up to give me an improved performance...however different tools seem to give different answers
I currently play affliction/demonology and I i was considering to go back to destro because given the stats on my gear it favors Destro with reforging...however that is a different matter altogether. I wanted to see how Simcraft and Ask Mr Robot gem/reforge...and I have been getting different answers

Afaik Int > Everything else, so i found it odd that MrRobot would forgo 790 int which would result in 776 spellpower loss for a 7.96% Mastery gain...even ignoring hit-cap (which i do not like because I am relying on a 4% RNG not to screw my Haunt/Critical DoT Refresh) I have a 706 int/776 SP loss for a 8.59% Mastery gain. Trying this with Simcraft yields a DPS loss for me given my current set-up

So my 2 questions are this...which of these tend to be "more correct" (you can vote via poll) and does the Int for Mastery trade of worth it?

[Deleted]

And where does MrRobot gain its stats values? They are customizable, and supposed to be simmed from your own character through simulationscraft for a proper optimization. They are two different tools, all MrRobot does is the paperwork for those who are not so briliant at juggling character stats around.

[Sneekin]

On AskMrRobot you can select an option to cap hit/expertise. So if you are playing something like affliction, you should do so.

As to which is better, the answer is neither. You should be using them in conjunction. Simming your character gives you stat weights which you can plug into your reforging/gemming tool. I suggest using the plot feature of your simming tool give you an idea how your stats will advance (mastery might be better than haste, but after 100 more haste, haste might be better than mastery).

So run simcraft, get results. Plug into askmrrobot, get results. Run those results through simcraft to confirm you are golden.

[Sunius]

I wouldn't use AskMrRobot. It sometimes gives very inefficient suggestions.

[Bonkura]

As mentioned AskMrRobot is just a tool for people who have pretty much no clue how to treat their gear (just like Noxxic.com). They get most of their info from forums and SimCraft. If you're serious about your character beyond making it good enough for a raid you should keep up with theorycrafting on forums and learn how to use SimCraft by yourself instead of letting other people do the job for you. The real job in optimizing your gear will always have to be done by you and not by others.

[Jessicka]

The problem I have with AMR is that it basically makes itself redundant by requiring knowledge and information from outside to make it work properly: Knowledge and information that if you have, you probably don't need AMR to work out what it's going to tell you.

[Deleted]

whats the link to this simcraft ?

[Hellfury]

Why not both? Robot to make sets and them export to Simcraft and sim it

they aren't mutually exclusive.

[Deleted]

The problem I have with AMR is that it basically makes itself redundant by requiring knowledge and information from outside to make it work properly: Knowledge and information that if you have, you probably don't need AMR to work out what it's going to tell you.

Prettymuch this, saying askmrrobot is giving you bad feedback seems a little off - since it relies on you inputting statweights, if you're not doing that then obviously it's going to be wrong - just like simcraft would if you imported a character other than your own.

But those stat weights fluctuate so much depending on your gear, that unless you got them from a recent sim, they're probably off - and if you're going to sim your character, well - you've done the work already using simcraft.

whats the link to this simcraft ?

Google simcraft, as crazy as it sounds.

[Deleted]

And where does MrRobot gain its stats values? They are customizable, and supposed to be simmed from your own character through simulationscraft for a proper optimization. They are two different tools, all MrRobot does is the paperwork for those who are not so briliant at juggling character stats around.

No they are not. I assumed they were, but the "nice" developers of MrRobot told me otherwise (which makes no sense at all, but whatever).

On topic: You can't compare those two, one is a simulator the other one is an optimizer. You could compare AMR to ReforgeLite (RL > AMR) and Simcraft to FemaleDwarf (though that is only for Hunters so I have never used it).

[Teye]

Where is the 'neither' option? Simcraft is a great tool, but very in-accurate due to poorly made APLs for almost every spec in the game, and Askmrrobot is just bad.

[Rakaji]

Where is the 'neither' option? Simcraft is a great tool, but very in-accurate due to poorly made APLs for almost every spec in the game, and Askmrrobot is just bad.

What he said, but with a sidenote that AMR's math skills are actually pretty good, but the amount of effort you have to put in to making it not derp the hell out of special requirements like haste caps, stat balancing, hit caps (srsly) and such makes it pretty much not worth bothering with it at all. You can do a better job of writing your own BiS lists based on stat weights by running sims on yourself, and Reforgelite is better for reforging lists than AMR by a looooong stretch.

[Teye]

Reforgelite is better for reforging lists

I also use reforge lite. Much easier to work with.

[whi]

Where is the 'neither' option? Simcraft is a great tool, but very in-accurate due to poorly made APLs for almost every spec in the game, and Askmrrobot is just bad.

Any chance you could post those better optimized ones of yours(at least for locks!)? I'm sure simc devs won't have any issues making them the default ones if they're indeed noticeably better. Thanks a ton.

[Teye]

Any chance you could post those better optimized ones of yours(at least for locks!)? I'm sure simc devs won't have any issues making them the default ones if they're indeed noticeably better. Thanks a ton.

The issue is that a proper Affliction APL would be hundreds of lines long, and I can't be ass'd to spend that kind of time. Demonology would have a proper APL written by me if the simc devs would fix the scaling issue with Meta and Shadowflame. Until they do, I'm twiddling my thumbs checking the ticket status once or twice a day.

[Harpocrates]

neither, don't trust robots!

[Rafoel]

As a semi-hardcore raider, I use askmrrobot only for checking what items are available for me in new content ;p. I know that most people use askmrrobot for reforge, however I noticed that if you perfectly know the rules of reforging for your class and spec, you are often going to get even better results that mrrobot proposes.

Simulationcraft, on the other hand, does not CALCULATE, but rather SIMULATE. One can say it's the same thing, but calculations are based on average values whereas simulations on random values, which better outline the actual situation in fight. Simulations on so advanced level as those on simcraft just can't give you wrong results... as long as priorities are the same, and the fight long enough ( you can also repeat them a few times ). If you think that your rotation is better that this that dozens of theorycrafters agreed on... well, that's another thing.

And, from what I see, most forum users agree with me

[Teye]

If you think that your rotation is better that this that dozens of theorycrafters agreed on... well, that's another thing.

Go read some of the recent posts about Simcraft from "popular" Aff Locks on this site. The APL is total garbage, that's the common opinion.

[whi]

And nobody ever posted noticeably better ones, even though simc is our only theorycrafting tool? Guess popularity goes with all them wrong reasons these days.

Common opinion =/= truth, just a bunch of trolls untill "they" post those awesome optimized ones, that will clearly just trump current ones by miles, as calling them 'garbage' would suggest.

[Teye]

Can you even grasp how long a proper APL for affliction would take to write? Let's not even get into the changes that a trinket change would require. Writing one for just one specific BiS character would literally take days in my estimation. Even then, I assure you it would be far from perfect if only one person wrote that many lines of code, and you'd still have to write one for every single possible variable of trinkets and how Pandemic would be best used with all of them. You really have no idea if you think that would be easy, or even if you think it would be possible.

Let's say its possible... By the time it was finished, the next tier would be starting. By the time you finished for that tier, and accounted for any and all in-game changes, that tier would be over too.

Calling people trolls because they refuse to waste their time just shows your ignorance.