Worm vs Chimaera BM AoE

[Puerto]

I haven't messed with BM AoE yet, but we are going to be doing Heroic Wind Lord tonight and I wanted to bring the most burst with some good AoE.

Which is better or which do you guys prefer? I've tried finding a specific answer.. but couldn't really find anything recent.

[Deleted]

Why not just go survival for that fight?

[Puerto]

Why not just go survival for that fight?

Because BM would bring a lot more burst damage during the 600% increased damage phase. At least that is my thinking... I could be wrong.

[Spiralphoenix]

My guild hasn't quite reached this fight on heroic but I do know in general how it works, but my thoughts...

Chimaera AoE has been a cone AoE for a very long time and I highly doubt it has changed, so it's really too unreliable to use.

I haven't tested worm AoE in a long while (slightly after hitting lv90) but if I remember correctly it's barely ahead of just normal beast cleave damage. In fact, looking at the top BM parse for heroic wind lord, they are just using a standard (non-AoE) pet. All beast cleave. Again I just looked at the top one, there could be some using burrow attack.

Looking at WoL, at first glance they appear to both do very well on the fight. But BM drops off pretty sharply from the top logs, SV stays more consistently high. You're still probably better off with SV if your guilds DPS is any concern.

[Puerto]

Chances are I will be trying both come tonight... depending on how many attempts we get. Pretty easy fight actually... got to 50% on second pull and only died because a holy pally tunneled and ran into a wind bomb lol.

[Asrialol]

Chimera has always been a bit silly due to the cone AoE which can be hard to aim. It can either go very well or terribly bad. I remember doing insanely good on Ragnaros 25HC progression with Chimera some tries when AoEing, and awful other times.

[resare]

I went worm, didn't regret it.

[Goldthwait]

The worm also provides a physical vulnerability debuff, so it's an easy choice between the two in my mind.

[Saoron]

BM is higher burst, but on that fight aoe is equally important. And SV is not horrible at burst either, considering if you drop an explo trap and readiness and throw a BA. You'll get some decent amount of lnl procs. So you'd be fine with either spec. And SV's sustained aoe with the srs buff makes it pull ahead. But if you're going with BM then strictly between worm vs chimaera, worm is better aoe. Chimaera is pretty weak. I think the burrow attack from the worm has a 20 something second cd. So just use it and then keep beast cleave up. During the burn phase, if you pop multi shot, your beast cleave will benefit from that 600% as well. So you'll do some crazy aoe then as well. Just so you get the second pack down quickly.

But i'd recommend going SV though, with a tallstrider pet for aoe sunders.

[Tehterokkar]

@Spiralphoenix
If you think Burrow is only slightly better than beast cleave, you are doing something wrong.
On trash in HoF I pop BW + burrow while multi-shotting and get over 200k burst, without burrow I can only manage like 140k with MS+BC

[bekiLL]

If you are smart enough you will find out that the real answer is neither on Wind Lord.

[Spiralphoenix]

@Spiralphoenix
If you think Burrow is only slightly better than beast cleave, you are doing something wrong.
On trash in HoF I pop BW + burrow while multi-shotting and get over 200k burst, without burrow I can only manage like 140k with MS+BC

Lets not get snarky here... if you're BM on HoF trash you're "doing something wrong" I can pull 300-400k DPS on that trash as SV (25M), and like 500k+ burst. The large bug pulls = well over AoE cap = SV wins. Not to mention when they start to scatter after they fixate people, the burrow is fixed in one spot once you use it, while you can continually change the focus point of your multi shot.

You can't "do something wrong" with what is basically a fire and forget ability, unless you just use it when the pet isn't even by the aoe pack. Do note that I said my last time using it was right after hitting 90 when it was far more irritating to use with the high initial focus cost, and they had just heavily nerfed it from its original beta incarnation coming into MoP.

[Aertea]

Because BM would bring a lot more burst damage during the 600% increased damage phase. At least that is my thinking... I could be wrong.

It appears that you have the misconception that Survival sucks at single target damage. In reality its only a few thousand off BM, and most of that only comes if you have the 4pc. However Survival can easily double the performance of BM in the AE portion of the fight, and do so with minimal effort.

[Saoron]

It appears that you have the misconception that Survival sucks at single target damage. In reality its only a few thousand off BM, and most of that only comes if you have the 4pc. However Survival can easily double the performance of BM in the AE portion of the fight, and do so with minimal effort.

he said 'burst' not sustained single target. But regardless, you have a 30 second window, and SV can ramp up decently in that period. Obviously won't do as much as BM but it makes up for the difference with aoe. If your raid has some solid aoe classes who can just melt the adds, then go BM to burn the boss faster, since besides the major cd's, BM also has BW which is only 1 minute. If the second or third one lines up then BM pulls ahead even further. If you don't have a lot of strong aoe classes in your raid then definitely go SV.

[Tehterokkar]

Lets not get snarky here... if you're BM on HoF trash you're "doing something wrong" I can pull 300-400k DPS on that trash as SV (25M), and like 500k+ burst. The large bug pulls = well over AoE cap = SV wins. Not to mention when they start to scatter after they fixate people, the burrow is fixed in one spot once you use it, while you can continually change the focus point of your multi shot.

You can't "do something wrong" with what is basically a fire and forget ability, unless you just use it when the pet isn't even by the aoe pack. Do note that I said my last time using it was right after hitting 90 when it was far more irritating to use with the high initial focus cost, and they had just heavily nerfed it from its original beta incarnation coming into MoP.

I'm BM on trash if I'm not going to be SV for next boss, why switch specs for irrelevant stuff?

Also Burrow/Breath were nerfed because they were a positive DPS increase on SINGLE target. Which would make other pets irrelevant for the top end raiders.

[Spiralphoenix]

I'm BM on trash if I'm not going to be SV for next boss, why switch specs for irrelevant stuff?

Also Burrow/Breath were nerfed because they were a positive DPS increase on SINGLE target. Which would make other pets irrelevant for the top end raiders.

Because it takes 5 seconds to switch (slightly longer with focus regen) and presumably your raid has 5-15 seconds of time in between the trash dying and you pulling. And trash dying faster is never a bad thing.

Perhaps your raid chain pulls all night, and that's great, but mine certainly is not that productive. I'll take any chance I can to make trash die faster.

[royen]

Aoe is not an issue on that fight, I play BM with worm, the burst you get is insane

[Kantoro]

Here is a suggestion, humbly submitted.

Play what you enjoy and stop looking at the meter. If the boss dies, you win. Constantly worrying about those precious few points of dps is a terrible way to raid.

[Spiralphoenix]

Here is a suggestion, humbly submitted.

Play what you enjoy and stop looking at the meter. If the boss dies, you win. Constantly worrying about those precious few points of dps is a terrible way to raid.

For you, sure. Believe it or not people enjoy the game differently. Competitiveness is not uncommon.

[Deleted]

Worm with Burrow attack is better that Chimeara in my opinion