Pandaria any good?

[Leonard McCoy]

What were you saying about straw mans and extreme arguments? You can do non lfr raiding and go a month without getting gear. You could go a whole month without getting drops by doing Dragon Soul as well. You can easily go anywhere in MoP without frustration. You just can't have everything now and served to you on a silver platter. Apparently to you there is only have and don't have.

Which still does nothing to change the fact that dailies aren't required for gearing up your character. World Bosses, Crafting, Rares, Archaeology, Scenarios, Dailies, PvP, Lost and Found and are methods to gear up your character for raiding. Even if you could spend Valor on gear you would still be grinding out and getting no drops in LFR.

The difference was that in Dragon Soul I could buy valor gear WITHOUT DOING A SINGLE DAILY. Needless double gating of the valor gear is one of the many shitty features of this current incarnation of this game. World Bosses didn't grant me gear either, again RNG. I made the craftable gear I could in the first week. Archaeology is almost as bad a grind as dailies. SCenarios don't grant me shit after 463 (or didn't). PvP grind is also really bad especially after they killed premades. Stringing losses together to buy a piece of honor gear is hardly my idea of a good time.

If I did lfr and was able to spend the valor I got from LFR then LFR wouldn't seem like such a shitty overall experience. In fact if ANY ACTIVITY in this game could reward me at a decent rate and wasn;t such a horrid fucking grind I may have stuck around. As it was everything was just a grind and didn't reward me enough for the time I invested. Unsubbed.

---------- Post added 2012-12-20 at 12:38 AM ----------

Moderate criticisms that you raise over and over again in what feels like any thread to do with WoW? Followed by ignoring anyone that says it's optional or by responding with some approximation of "NA-UH!"

I have 2 Rep pieces, a neck and a ring both of which only required honoured. I got Klaxxi without doing a single daily for them, can't recall how long golden lotus took.

That is of course assuming you quested in Dread Wastes not an assumption that is wide spread. For instance I hit 90 in an instance. My friend hit 90 in townlong. I don't ignore people saying it's optional, I simple disagree that's a worthy response. Everything is optional, including paying my sub. So what? Is that an interesting choice to you? Do it or don't and suck it up without the fucking reward? Does that make dailies and grinding out rep interesting to you? When optional content is to rewarding it ceases to be come optional and is simple the way most players play the game. That is a direct quote from Ghostcrawler himself. Is lfr optional? What about raiding 10 and 25 back in wotlk? or running hard heroics in cata? Those were all optional and yet hard heroics had to HAD to be nerfed this expansion because it was to difficulty and people felt forced into doing them. Same thing with 10/25 lock outs. Or gold farming in older raids? That was OPTIONAL to and yet it was nerfed and the justification was EXACTLY what ghostcrawler said. Or Blingtron? They nerfed Blingtron because in Ghostcralwers own words, It felt to much like a job? Well how exactly? It's optional right. Blingtron is arguably the most optional thing in the universe. How does that make it a job?

[Elgierro]

Leveling is good to do once or twice, nothing new if you did previous expansions.
If you like questing, guess what ? you can quest untill the next expansion if you want to.
Raids are well designed and fun to do.
They have tried to make alot of specs raids viable.


On the daily subject;
Blizzard already made it clear that they are looking into alternative ways to get rep, and they should.
I bet they didn't expect the shitstorm they created with locking everything behind dailies (Cooking, proff recipes, Vp gear and even jp gear at the start).

[rhorle]

In fact if ANY ACTIVITY in this game could reward me at a decent rate and wasn;t such a horrid fucking grind I may have stuck around. As it was everything was just a grind and didn't reward me enough for the time I invested. Unsubbed.

Right. Your problem isn't with Dailies like you originally stated. It is with having to actually play the game in order to get gear for your character. You can do dailies five or ten mins a day and have gotten honored within a months time. The same time period you apparently use to designate LFR a unrewarding grind. It just sounds like WoW was never the game for you and never appealed to you. But for some reason you played it anyways and continue to hover around fansites and topics about the game.

Nothing has been nerfed this expansion. Hard raids are still hard, hard heroics are still hard. The fact that you don't see content as optional doesn't change the fact that it is optional. You don't have to do the dailies to progress your character for raiding. It simply speeds the process up, but that is generally why you have options. What is wrong with actually having to do work in game to be rewarded?

[JhanZ]

Ranges from terrible to mediocre.

[Rizendragon]

The difference was that in Dragon Soul I could buy valor gear WITHOUT DOING A SINGLE DAILY. Needless double gating of the valor gear is one of the many shitty features of this current incarnation of this game. World Bosses didn't grant me gear either, again RNG. I made the craftable gear I could in the first week. Archaeology is almost as bad a grind as dailies. SCenarios don't grant me shit after 463 (or didn't). PvP grind is also really bad especially after they killed premades. Stringing losses together to buy a piece of honor gear is hardly my idea of a good time.

If I did lfr and was able to spend the valor I got from LFR then LFR wouldn't seem like such a shitty overall experience. In fact if ANY ACTIVITY in this game could reward me at a decent rate and wasn;t such a horrid fucking grind I may have stuck around. As it was everything was just a grind and didn't reward me enough for the time I invested. Unsubbed.

---------- Post added 2012-12-20 at 12:38 AM ----------



That is of course assuming you quested in Dread Wastes not an assumption that is wide spread. For instance I hit 90 in an instance. My friend hit 90 in townlong. I don't ignore people saying it's optional, I simple disagree that's a worthy response. Everything is optional, including paying my sub. So what? Is that an interesting choice to you? Do it or don't and suck it up without the fucking reward? Does that make dailies and grinding out rep interesting to you? When optional content is to rewarding it ceases to be come optional and is simple the way most players play the game. That is a direct quote from Ghostcrawler himself. Is lfr optional? What about raiding 10 and 25 back in wotlk? or running hard heroics in cata? Those were all optional and yet hard heroics had to HAD to be nerfed this expansion because it was to difficulty and people felt forced into doing them. Same thing with 10/25 lock outs. Or gold farming in older raids? That was OPTIONAL to and yet it was nerfed and the justification was EXACTLY what ghostcrawler said. Or Blingtron? They nerfed Blingtron because in Ghostcralwers own words, It felt to much like a job? Well how exactly? It's optional right. Blingtron is arguably the most optional thing in the universe. How does that make it a job?

http://darklegacycomics.com/368.html
This is what WoW has always been. MMORPGs of this nature are not for you. DS was a terrible time in WoW imo, and I long for the day that they realize that 10's and 25's being on seperate lockouts that kept 25 man guilds alive...

OT: MoP is for those that like to have a ton of things to do. At this point if you've been doing dailies right along you probably have things to do on your alts, but if you're just starting expect your alts to accumulate some dust for a few months.

[Tyrven]

Best xpac since BC as far as I am concerned. It has a few pitfalls but that is a side effect of change.

[econ21]

The raids seem pretty good - a lot of bosses, interesting and varied fight mechanics. They are also accessible to all thanks to Looking for Raid (which seems to be working well now).

There's more to do outside of raids (or PvP, if that's your thing) now, thanks to scores of dailies, scenarios and farming. It can get overbearing, but you don't have to do everything (and can't realistically).

The new continent is nicely done and the leveling experience smooth. The story and lore is much better than I feared (remembering the protests about "childish" Panderan and pet battles). I like how they are telling experimenting with story telling via reputation (in 5.1); it's a novel idea and a good way to motivate dailies).

The redesign of the classes and new talent system is also better than I feared. Yes, we've gone from 30 to 6 talents, or something like that, but we have more interesting choices and classes generally have kept their cool stuff, plus gained a little.

Active mitigation for tanks works very well. Tanks are really challenged now in raids, with interesting boss mechanics.

Overall, it's a solid expansion. Perhaps not as epic as BC or Wrath, but better than Cataclysm.

[Leonard McCoy]

Right. Your problem isn't with Dailies like you originally stated. It is with having to actually play the game in order to get gear for your character. You can do dailies five or ten mins a day and have gotten honored within a months time. The same time period you apparently use to designate LFR a unrewarding grind. It just sounds like WoW was never the game for you and never appealed to you. But for some reason you played it anyways and continue to hover around fansites and topics about the game.

Nothing has been nerfed this expansion. Hard raids are still hard, hard heroics are still hard. The fact that you don't see content as optional doesn't change the fact that it is optional. You don't have to do the dailies to progress your character for raiding. It simply speeds the process up, but that is generally why you have options. What is wrong with actually having to do work in game to be rewarded?

No that's not it. That's such a massive fucking strawman and I'm so tired of it. My problem is that the game isn't rewarding enough. PERIOD. End of fucking story. I'd love to be playing this game and getting rewarded for my time invested but instead I'm cock blocked at every turn. The fact is that the content is optional in the sense that I don't have to do anything int he game at all. I could unsub, that's an option to. It isn't a particularly good one, well it is now at any rate.

Nothing has been nerfed? Really? Heroic dungeons are heroic? Nope. Valor gear isn't taking a back seat? The time to reward ratio in this game has taken such a fucking nose dive and just because you say it doesn't doesn't mean it isn't. Dungeons granted me rep, valor and gear. They no longer do. Dungeon reward HAS BEEN NERFED. In fact NOTHING feels rewarding enough. Everything is so god damned slow it feels like your honestly getting nowhere.

---------- Post added 2012-12-20 at 02:12 AM ----------

http://darklegacycomics.com/368.html
This is what WoW has always been. MMORPGs of this nature are not for you. DS was a terrible time in WoW imo, and I long for the day that they realize that 10's and 25's being on seperate lockouts that kept 25 man guilds alive...

OT: MoP is for those that like to have a ton of things to do. At this point if you've been doing dailies right along you probably have things to do on your alts, but if you're just starting expect your alts to accumulate some dust for a few months.

Again even in early cataclysm, and through wotlk the game was more rewarding. The game has simple been getting more rewarding over the years. It's not ds or 4.3 specific. Mists is a marked departure from the course the game had been on and not for the better. Give it time the sub numbers will drop, the devs are already making changes.

[Mormolyce]

I think it's awesome. More content at launch than the rest of WoW combined. In fact my biggest recommendation is don't try to do everything at once, you'll get totally burnt out!

Tried it and lvl:ed up my main to lvl 90. Then the game felt really boring. Didn´t like the changes they did for Destru locks. The rotation now is crap and really really boring!!! Haven´t played it anymore since I became lvl 90. I unsubscribed again aswell! Imo it´s totally crap now!

Can't understand this point of view myself, the old Destro was horrible the new one is a million times better if you ask me.

---------- Post added 2012-12-20 at 02:37 AM ----------

No that's not it. That's such a massive fucking strawman and I'm so tired of it. My problem is that the game isn't rewarding enough. PERIOD. End of fucking story. I'd love to be playing this game and getting rewarded for my time invested but instead I'm cock blocked at every turn. The fact is that the content is optional in the sense that I don't have to do anything int he game at all. I could unsub, that's an option to. It isn't a particularly good one, well it is now at any rate.

Nothing has been nerfed? REeally? Heroic dungeons are heroic? Nope. VAlor gear isn't taking a back seat? The time to reward ration in this game has taken such a fucking nose dive and just because you say it doesn't doesn't mean it isn't. Dungeons granted me rep, valor and gear. They no longer do. Dungeon reward HAS BEEN NERFED.

They don't want to create another situation where nobody did anything other than sit in Org queueing for dungeons like previous xpacs so they put some extra rewards on things like dailies and reputations to encourage going out in the world. If you want to get 100% of every possible upgrade option doing nothing other than dungeons then no you're not going to be happy with MoP because you're doing exactly what they're trying not to encourage.

That said, nobody NEEDS charms or rep. Maybe you feel you NEED to unlock all the VP items, for which you only need Revered I think? Which really doesn't take long. But if you're not raiding frankly you don't need those items, and you can get a decent set from LFR instead. If you ARE raiding then you have access to gear drops as good or better than VP items anyway. Especially once you progress onto HMs (and if you never do any HMs well... my guild cleared all of MSV first week it opened with no VP gear at all...). So if you want to do nothing but dungeons you still can, you just don't get all the bonus stuff you can access by doing more than that. Seems like an elegant solution to me.

But I seem to remember seeing you post this stuff many times before so I'm probably just talking to a brick wall here.