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  1. #41
    High Overlord FraQture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Kil'jaeden made Frostmourne so I doubt it's that dangerous to him. Let alone Sargeras.
    Origin

    When Ner'zhul was transformed into the Lich King by Kil'jaeden, his disembodied spirit was shackled to a magical suit of armor as well as the runeblade Frostmourne, and trapped within an icy tomb called the Frozen Throne. Both the armor and the blade were crafted by the Nathrezim for the purpose of containing and controlling the Lich King.

  2. #42
    Epic! Demetrion's Avatar
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    Kil'Jaden created Lich King. Sargeras granted powers to Kil'Jaden. Although when Arthas merged with Lich King his powers grew, but still aren't a match for a general of the Burning Legion not to mention to Sargeras.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this yet: Bolvar Fordragon.

    He's proof that it's about the strength of your will, your fortitude and unwavering determination, that determines if you can be controlled/have your spirit stolen by the Lich King.

    The Lich King took months trying to break Bolvar, but in the end was unsuccessful. Also, see Sylvanas, who managed to break free of his control. And why did the Lich King never try to use Uther the Lightbringer against us? Uther's spirit was trapped in Frostmourne, ready and waiting to be used. But he never did. Why? Because Uther would be too strong to control.

    So to bring this all back to the original question... Kil'jaeden and Sargeras are two of the most powertful entities in the known Warcraft universe. If the Lich King can struggle with breaking the will of a mortal human, how on Earth is he going to take down Kil'jaeden and Sargeras?
    He doesn't need to break their spirit and use their power if he can just kill them... or at least, kill Kil'Jaeden, as Arthas wouldn't stand a chance against Sargeras.

    I think Arthas used souls of mortals both to bolster his powers and and torture those that perturbed him. I'm certain he had some manner of control over the soul-absorption... he wouldn't have to worry about "accidentally" absorbing Kil'Jaeden's soul and having his sword explode or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Demetrion
    Kil'Jaden created Lich King. Sargeras granted powers to Kil'Jaden. Although when Arthas merged with Lich King his powers grew, but still aren't a match for a general of the Burning Legion not to mention to Sargeras.
    Kil'Jaeden enumerated powers to the Lich king... but he certainly wasn't able to hold command over him, as he had hoped. In addition to the merging (which Arthas later "undid,") the Lich king became vastly more powerful than he was initially after Arthas began consolidating his power in Northrend during the events of WotLK.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2012-12-20 at 09:59 AM.
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    Kaleredar is right...
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  4. #44
    lich king still remains 1 of the best bosses i can remember his voice his big mouth i love it
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  5. #45
    First reply of the thread solved the thread. LK could possibly stand a chance against KJ, but I doubt it. Definitely nothing but a fly against Sargeras.
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  6. #46
    Dreadlord MetalheroDamien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nekosom View Post

    And while the Lich King is a great character, where exactly his power came from is really a bit contrived. Can Kil'Jaeden just make Lich Kings at will?Probably not, see next point Did Ner'zhul absorb some exotic power while he was traversing the Nether?More likely, Kil'Jaeden took the power that Ner'zhul already had and used that as the base Not to mention the armor and Frostmourne have REALLY confusing origins. Again, how were such powerful artifacts seemingly produced out of nowhere?Magic is one possible answer, but I think the more likely answer is that Kil'Jaeden probably used Ner'Zhul as a kind of battery Frostmourne was supposedly created by the Nathrezim, and yet the Dreadlords don't seem to have any artifact with that kind of power.See my point about Frostmourne and the Armor and Helm of Damnation being powered by Ner'Zhul. And if they're so powerful, why in the world would Kil'Jaeden give them to someone he already knew was untrustworthy? It said somewhere, I think one of the manuals that the Armor and Helm of Damnation were created as a prison of sorts for Ner'Zhul. It's also likely that he had planned to make use of Ner'Zhul in some way, but he didn't get a chance to because Ner'Zhul managed to get Frostmourne out of the frozen throne, something that wasn't intended to happen
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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    If one hit from Frostmourne can kill someone and steal their soul, does that mean the Lich King can kill anyone under the right circumstances. Also why didn't Arthas form a plan and take a legion of scourge to bring down Kil'Jaeden in a surprise attack?
    If Arthas didint got suprised by tirion AND achived his ultimate plan to sukck every soul/spirit in the world his would gain untold power. For every soul he tooked the more strength he gained. Then he would gain same status as Archimonde / Kiljaden. But seargeras woulrd still be to powerful. To give you an reflection of his strength , if chimonde would succses with draining the worldtrees/well of eternity energies then archimonde would match seargeras. BUt with the lk ability of draining energies why wouldnt he do it? Scourge is the nr 2 superior army of wow after burning legion. Old gods third beacuse lk could raise dead and burning legions army is massed from serveral worlds. SOOOOO in that point in wow lk is like the fourth in rank of the villians.
    1 seargeras / full powered old gods / 2. Archimonde kiljeaden 3. Deathwing / azara (powered by the old gods) 4 LK. OMg so much to say.

    Another point LK necromantc power is unmatched. HE planned to raise gorgalondor what his name was.. ( all aspect in one dragon) So in that sort of matter who knows how powerfull k could be. And i must say with all his plan and plots he was the smartest of the villians (lured burning legion to an utter deafet,and knows the potencial of the mortal heros and planned to rase them as his superior generals. SO I count LK as nr 1 villian mastermind X) Its so mutch more than strengt that make an charakter.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-20 at 02:03 PM ----------

    And i forgot he is the only one that coukld withstand BUrning legion and the old gods will. HE have an armor of the very blood of the old gods and harvest it for him self like saroninte. And he broked the (oond) between him and the burning legion (kiljaden /archimonde) and that was before and after he merged with his mortal host arthas menethil.

  8. #48
    The real world doesn't work like Rock, Paper, Scissors. Neither do mythological worlds like WOW. Boba Fett doesn't instantly die to any blind man randomly firing a blaster, circumstances matter.

    circumstances plural of cir·cum·stance (Noun)
    Noun
    A fact or condition connected with or relevant to an event or action.
    An event or fact that causes or helps to cause something to happen, typically something undesirable.
    Synonyms
    situation - condition - conditions
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  9. #49
    Sargeras? Do you even know what you're talking about?

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-20 at 03:15 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Yig View Post
    The real world doesn't work like Rock, Paper, Scissors. Neither do mythological worlds like WOW. Boba Fett doesn't instantly die to any blind man randomly firing a blaster, circumstances matter.

    circumstances plural of cir·cum·stance (Noun)
    Noun
    A fact or condition connected with or relevant to an event or action.
    An event or fact that causes or helps to cause something to happen, typically something undesirable.
    Synonyms
    situation - condition - conditions
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  10. #50
    Legendary! Chickat's Avatar
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    EH i dont know, I kind of feel like Deathwing alone at full power VS Kiljaeden alone, Deathwing has a good chance of winning. I also think that Lich king under the right circumstances could have taken deathwing. Maybe i jumped the gun about Sargeras, but The lick king could have been one bad mother f****r.
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  11. #51
    Banned JhanZ's Avatar
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    Kil'jaeden is second only to Sargeras. He's too powerful for the LK.

    Sargeras is way overkill.

  12. #52
    Elemental Lord Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowchikabow View Post
    "Could God make a rock so heavy that he himself could not lift it?" <<< these are the kinds of questions that result from think like OP.


    Since God isn't real, we will never know. Concurrently, since the Lich King, Kil'Jeaden, and Sargeras are merely story characters (and such are subject to the flaws of Deus Ex Machina, or worse... the RetCon) we can never truly know why such events did, did not, or will, will not happen.

    Infracted. Keep religion bashing out of the discussion
    There was no religion bashing in this. He didn't bash any religion. People freak out now in this forum everytime someone just mentions god. It was a good example to show that it's really hard to argue whose powers are stronger when we're talking about fictional characters. Even when you say someone is all-powerful, it's not really something humans can really comprehend, because it seems to be impossible.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Nindoriel View Post
    There was no religion bashing in this. He didn't bash any religion. People freak out now in this forum everytime someone just mentions god. It was a good example to show that it's really hard to argue whose powers are stronger when we're talking about fictional characters. Even when you say someone is all-powerful, it's not really something humans can really comprehend, because it seems to be impossible.
    Exactly. In fact, the omnipotence paradox that bowchikabow presented is the best reference I've seen in the topic yet. Kudos to you, bow.

    Who would win, the Justice League or Avengers? Superman or Goku? It's interesting and fun to speculate upon stuff like this. At the end of the day though, you have to factor in the fact that the writers determine who's going to win. The questions then are how much homage and continuity with the characters' past actions does the writer want to incorporate? Will he imbue one character with a magic mcguffin or device that is made specifically to give him the edge in the battle? (And to a certain extent, who does the writer like better?)

  14. #54
    THe lich king had the potential to grow to their power but was stopped short. He'd grown much much more powerful than Kil' ever intended. and lets not forget that kil' never had anyone like us in his initial days to contend with (and he's been around a very very very long time). The lich kings power wouldve have faster than kil's would have since worlds the lich king consumes not only bolster his troops and improve them (not just through curruption but experimentation and "melding") but also bolsters his own power.

    If given the oppurtunity he would have grown more powerful than kiljaeden in a fraction of the time it took kiljaeden to reach his current level.

    also old gods vs sargaras is contested. Theres no retcon either way because of lack of information on part of the other old gods. While Sargaras' surpreme power is spoken heavily off, let us remember this info is based on ingame opinions and information..from either his legion or mortals. Who would be awed by his power. But he's more than likely more powerful than most old gods as he is more powerful than quite a few of the titans.

    In a straight 1v1 fight he could possibly kill a "regular" one (atleast the one's we've seen though we've not fought an old god at its peak) but just like he's thee most potent combatant amongst the titans, the old gods are also individualistic in their traits and there's liable to be one suitable powerful (there are more old gods than just the Azerothian ones) enough to take him on.

    Though both of their MO's (and titans and old gods in general) is that they dont ussually involve themselves in direct combat till its truly called upon or for an hour of glory...or desperation etc.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Norgannon the Dreamweaver View Post
    ....Sargeras would obliterate Frostmourne and the Lich King.

    Kil'Jaeden would be a hard match for the Lich King.

    Frostmourne isn't as powerful as you think it is.

    End of thread. Solved.
    Why is Kil'jaedan a powerful match?
    What makes Kil'jaedan the Deceiver so powerful that recomends him, other than his deceiving schemes?

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-27 at 10:26 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by JhanZ View Post
    Kil'jaeden is second only to Sargeras. He's too powerful for the LK.

    Sargeras is way overkill.
    Lol man. Being second in command doesnt make you powerful!
    Gul'dan > Kil'jaedan
    Medivh > Kil'jaedan
    Lich King > Kil'jaedan
    and many more.

    You dont agree? then tell me what recomands him? What did he do that is so frightening?
    You cant? Because he did nothing but deceive. His nickname tells all of his powers, Kil'jaedan the Deceiver.

    Why are some characters so overrated.... even without the slightest fact behind them.
    Lads, Kil'jaedan did absolutely nothing. He didnt conquered shit, he didnt fight noone, nothing.
    Last edited by keksplace; 2012-12-27 at 10:30 AM.
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  16. #56
    If it worked like that Illidan is only good at betraying people, holding no other powers.
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  17. #57
    I mean, A DK can solo him, what makes you think he can take on Kil'jaeden/Sargeras?

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by keksplace View Post
    Lol man. Being second in command doesnt make you powerful!
    Gul'dan > Kil'jaedan
    Medivh > Kil'jaedan
    Lich King > Kil'jaedan
    and many more.

    You dont agree? then tell me what recomands him? What did he do that is so frightening?
    You cant? Because he did nothing but deceive. His nickname tells all of his powers, Kil'jaedan the Deceiver.

    Why are some characters so overrated.... even without the slightest fact behind them.
    Lads, Kil'jaedan did absolutely nothing. He didnt conquered shit, he didnt fight noone, nothing.
    There is more to power than showing one's vigor in a fight.

    We didn't see the Emperor fight for a long time in the Star Wars movies (if you watch them in order of release) but would you deny his frightening stature? You're right that not all people that are second-in-command are necessarily powerful... but they got there for a reason. In baseball, getting a walk is just as good as getting a single. Why? Because it gets you on base doesn't it?

    This theory can be applied to power and a character's relative in WoW. Calculation, cunning, and intellect all attribute to one's capacity for power. Kil'Jaeden was able to create the Lich King through his trickery; setting the pieces in place by deceiving Ner'zhul. Was this not successful? Would it have been more prudent for him to try and take command of Ner'zhul through brute force alone? Probably not.

    He was able to control Illidan and the Lich King to a certain extent. To have someone obey your orders through trickery and deceit seems like a pretty powerful tactic to me.

    He was also able to do the following: "He is credited with enslaving the Dreadlords, a feat that would have required immense cunning and awesome magic."

    Kil'Jaeden might seem weak in your eyes in terms of physical prowess or what he has displayed thus far, but he's far from the pushover you make him out to be.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by bionics View Post
    Kil'Jaeden might seem weak in your eyes in terms of physical prowess or what he has displayed thus far, but he's far from the pushover you make him out to be.
    After all, he didnt become a mighty Demon Lord of the Burning Legion just because of his father's connections......
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  20. #60
    Herald of the Titans malletin's Avatar
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    because kil'jaeden is the creator of frostmourne and the lich king and i am pretty sure he would never create something that could eventually overpower him. And sargeras is completely out of the question. Besides he is far more cunning than the lich king he was able to enslave the Dreadlords a feat that would require him to outwit them ( that alone is quite a feat as they are some of the most cunning demons ) and he also wield considerable magic judging by the fact that he as mentioned before managed to enslave them.
    Last edited by malletin; 2012-12-27 at 11:15 AM.
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