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  1. #61
    Scarab Lord Nest's Avatar
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    Feral: burst (and possibly instant cyclone)
    Warrior: Shockwave and Second Wind
    Warlock: Blood Fear nerfed

    Instant CC's overall should get nerfed. Same with the retarded burst damage that mainly Warriors and Mages do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Obelodalix View Post
    Change it so that moonkins can't vortex into solar beam. And maybe tone down their cooldown damage whilst buffing sustained. That's all I'd wish for, before it's too late.
    As a Boomkin player, I agree. Both feral and boomkin have retarded amount of damage with Incarnation + Nature's Vigil on... :<
    Last edited by Nest; 2012-12-21 at 12:53 AM.
    Heyoo!

  2. #62
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    for some one who doesn't care about ret paladins you sure picked a very specific spec to use as your example.
    if blinding light needs a cast time, then so does intimidating shout, howl of terror, psychic scream. all of which have shorter cds, and are more resistant to damage then blinding light.

    holy paladins don't actually have any more capacity for instant cc then rets do and rets have pretty much the same capacity they did in cata and wolk. i guess they have lots of instant cc in that game where cleaves are the absolute best comps right now.



    rets has had plenty of nerfs, and more on the horizon. i'm not sure how making specific examples of one of the weaker melee specs and more average healers would benefit pvp in general.
    I think it was mentioned by a dev and he's just running with what was previously said... I think Ghostcrawler (or another blue maybe) mentioned it as an example of instant AOE CC. So it was brought up, which means that most likely it is going to be changed.


    And I don't disagree with you, I don't think Rets need more nerfs at this time, however, it appears that this may happen. And if it does, I do hope that you are upped in another way.

  3. #63
    Unholy dk

    -thread;

    Just kidding, on serious note warlock's blood fear needs to be toned down and shockwave 30 sec cd.

    In fact, i think they need to nerf all ccs.... simple solution, have all sheep/fear/incapacitate durations reduced to 4 sec. Stuns to 3 secs.
    Last edited by Beefkow; 2012-12-21 at 01:17 AM.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Beefkow View Post
    Unholy dk

    -thread;

    Just kidding, on serious note warlock's blood fear needs to be toned down and shockwave 30 sec cd.

    In fact, i think we need to nerf all ccs.... simple solution, have all durations reduced to 4 sec.
    This is how I feel. I think all CC from all classes need to be nerfed, no bias here I think everyone should get their fair share of CC nerfs. It is better for the long term health of the pvp; currently pvp is just highly frustrating even if you win. Arena matches for caster cleave mirrors tend to take a LONG TIME despite the relatively high burst, due to the over abundance of CC.

    I think TBC/WOTLK were a lot more fun than mists - even though certain aspects were overpowered, most CC was counterable/avoidable through proper positioning. I feel like positioning in arena matters a lot less than it has in years past.

  5. #65
    as is blizzards style

    dks buffed
    paladins buffed
    mages buffed
    every other class subtle rephrasing of class abilities to make it look like a buff happened.
    shamans smacked with a brick and told to get in line behind murloc for order of importance

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelodalix View Post
    Change it so that moonkins can't vortex into solar beam. And maybe tone down their cooldown damage whilst buffing sustained. That's all I'd wish for, before it's too late.
    They're barely visible at all, don't be that way, don't do that to them! The beam is not supposed to work as a CS.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Senathor View Post
    They're barely visible at all, don't be that way, don't do that to them! The beam is not supposed to work as a CS.
    If you had any idea how Rated Battlegrounds (or even LSD 3.0) is played at the upper levels, 2400+, you would see that as something that needs an obvious nerf. All of the upper rated RBG teams base their entire strategy around the RBG "1 shot" which involves a gorefiends grasp into a beam/vortex with perhaps even a ring of frost for trinket covers. Even if you trinket you're still silenced. Generally you will kill at least half of a 10 player team doing this during fights on maps such as Gilneas, twin peaks, LM on AB, etc. Many times i've been on teams that have killed entire opposing teams using this.

    Its a ridiculous ability with a too large radius, and vortex stacked with beam in RBGs is highly imbalanced. Watch some bailamost VODs for further proof of this - he is not a good player but he always uses groups that abuse ridiculous strategies such as this.

    The other issue is moonkin damage during incarnation. It is ridiculous. Then again, moonkins 1) have vulnerability to melee and 2) apparently low rated players are clueless on how to play their class which leads to 3) people whining on forums about how weak moonkins are. Moonkins aren't really weak. And those aspects mentioned above (vortex/beam) definitely need to be nerfed.
    Last edited by velnis; 2012-12-21 at 03:31 AM.

  8. #68
    Hopefully:

    Further Frost Bomb nerf
    small Feral nerf
    Slight tweak to Second Wind and Warrior damage
    Blood Fear changed

    They already stated Blood Fear would be getting nerfed, I think they'll probably do something like 'each time you take damage the cast time of your next fear is reduced by 10% and it's mana cost is replaced by a 1% health cost. this effect stacks up to 10 times.'

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Buxton McGraff View Post
    Displacer Beast can't be used if you have Faerie Fire on you, and if you have ANY dots on you, it breaks stealth immediately.
    Disorienting Roar only lasts for 3 seconds, and it breaks after taking damage. Ret paladin have the same thing, only it lasts twice as long.
    displacer beast still teleports the druid even if they can't get into cat form, and not every comp has faerie fire.

    blinding light has 4x the cd of disquieting roar and can't be used while silenced.

    both should be 1 min cd and not usable while silenced.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  10. #70
    If they want to make Blood Fear only useable defensively then obviously the health cost needs to go. Also, it would still be terrible, because it'll be shit against the one class we need it most, Warriors. Fear on them is completely pointless. Hopefully we get mortal coil or shadowfury baseline.

    I wouldn't mind having Blood Fear replaced with something like: Whenever you are attacked by melee, you can cast a Blood Fear that lasts 4 seconds. Does not replace or share DR with normal fear, 10 yard range, goes through fear immunities, effect can not occur more than once every 25 seconds.
    Last edited by Ripley6174; 2012-12-21 at 08:00 AM.

  11. #71
    Some guy mentioned that AoE range is out of control and included warlocks.

    To have that insane AoE range we need to choose a level 90 talent and not a whole lot of people would take it over our two others.

    At least that is what I believe, reminds me.. Remove Blood Fear and replace it with something else.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    i'm actually fairly sure that Rep and blinding light already DR with each other.
    This is incorrect. They do not share DR with each other.

    On topic, I'm willing to bet that there isn't many number tweaks in 5.2, maybe a few small percentages in the 2-5% range for some classes, probably feral's ravage, dk's obliterate.

    What I am willing to bet good money on is that more CC shares DR with each other. What I mean is that your are going to see almost all forms of magical and dispellable CC sharing the same DR.

    The one thing that I wish would happen and would make me so insanely happy: Fears of any kind break immediately from any amount of damage. Add in glyphs to make target becoming feared have all dots removed, much like the polymorph glyph.

  13. #73
    GC will kick shaman in the balls and laugh at its agony.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by velnis View Post
    This is a pretty good list here of the remaining broken aspects of pvp. They need to take a game-wide look at CC DR's, it is worth investigating because the game has way more CC now than it ever has in the past. There are also some obvious things that don't DR each other, such as paladin blind into repentance into HOJ etc, all of which should DR each other. Fear/poly as well.

    As far as overpowered specs, feral and shadow priest are by far the two best at the moment, with ferals having insane burst especially on low armor targets. Its unbelievable that ferals have gone this long without being nerfed, at the moment they need a nerf to snare/root shifting, or their damage - ferals have nearly 95% uptime on targets which is retarded. Many comps absolutely cannot kite a feral, they just die while taking insane damage during the feral 1 shot burst (which can TKO someone in 2 seconds - my priest with 66% resil dies in 2 seconds to that crap)

    Other things:

    Blood fear removed.
    Psyfiend removed.
    Displacer beast not usable while silenced
    Cyclone should not be a special snowflake, ie undispellable
    Druid incarnation should be looked at.
    AOE radius is absolutely STUPID right now. AOE radius in pvp should not be 30-40 yards. This includeS:
    -Halo
    -Rain of fire
    -Hellfire
    -Druid solar beam (radius TOO large, and can be covered with vortex for added retardation)
    Symbiosis should not give such good benefits to certain specs. A shaman with druid beam or feral with bubble is too good.
    Also, druid solar beam needs to be removed or reworked. The top RBG teams in US/EU all have comps based around gorefiends grasp into solar beam with a vortex underneath it, which basically is a global of an entire opposing team with little they can do to counter it.
    Feral burst is absolutely insane right now
    Druid incarnation reworked. Allows for insane burst with even moonkins, but especially feral.
    Feral uptime is also absolutely insane, ferals are not easily counterable/peelable and that should be addressed.
    Ferals are deadly in the hands of a good player (witness yipz) and cannot be countered.

    CC DR's completely revamped, or many CC abilities removed
    Shockwave should have a 30s cooldown
    POM should have a more significant cooldown
    Icy Touch purge should have a more significant resource cost
    Double shaman purge should be removed

    Basically, the game needs to move away from instant CC and go more towards a wotlk or TBC CC model. In prior expansions, CC was counterable with proper positioning. Now that isn't always the case, the game is derp mode with blood fear especially.
    You dont like ferals do you? News flash. Feral druids arent even near as big in representation as warriors are.
    Warriors are still the best melee in the game by far.

    Source: http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stat...-0--0-0-0.html

    There you can see that feral druid is the 8th popular spec above 2200. Insanely overpowered. Yeah.. against bad players perhaps.
    "Nearly 95% uptime" is a number pulled out of your dark place. That isnt even close to near if you play against competent players.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-21 at 05:01 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by squidbear View Post
    Hopefully:

    Further Frost Bomb nerf
    small Feral nerf
    Slight tweak to Second Wind and Warrior damage
    Blood Fear changed

    They already stated Blood Fear would be getting nerfed, I think they'll probably do something like 'each time you take damage the cast time of your next fear is reduced by 10% and it's mana cost is replaced by a 1% health cost. this effect stacks up to 10 times.'
    The problem with that is that it wouldnt have time to even stack to 3-4 with the current damage from warriors
    Last edited by saltyharbls; 2012-12-21 at 03:53 PM.

  15. #75
    The Lightbringer Dewote's Avatar
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    Elemental Shamans, so OP.
    Expecting at least 20% nerf to lava burst damage.
    And when you cast Ascendance you automatically get silenced so others don't have to waste CD for it.
    /sarcasm
    FC 2793-2016-8218 - Name: Suoma

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by saltyharbls View Post
    Y
    There you can see that feral druid is the 8th popular spec above 2200. Insanely overpowered. Yeah.. against bad players perhaps.
    "Nearly 95% uptime" is a number pulled out of your dark place. That isnt even close to near if you play against competent players.[COLOR="red"]
    thats probably more because resto is so fucking good.

    compare enhance shamans are also really fucking good right now, but you don't see many of them around because resto shamans are so much more fucking amazing.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by ArekuD View Post
    hopefully frost mage burst, resto druids cc (and maybe insta cyclones with no shapeshifting for ferals/their burst), instant cc's (eg blood fear, pom + poly because imo long ranged cc's shouldn't be instant), i'd love to see some buffs to disc which is a crap pvp healer atm, rogues could use some love too
    FROST MAGE BURST? ARE YOU SERIOUS? Frost mages have already been nerfed SIGNIFICANTLY by removing 50% of Frost Bomb's damage if triggered explosion, 1 sec on Deep Freeze, Less damage absorbs from Ice Barrier and cast time on RoF.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by saltyharbls View Post
    You dont like ferals do you? News flash. Feral druids arent even near as big in representation as warriors are.
    Warriors are still the best melee in the game by far.

    Source: http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/stat...-0--0-0-0.html

    There you can see that feral druid is the 8th popular spec above 2200. Insanely overpowered. Yeah.. against bad players perhaps.
    "Nearly 95% uptime" is a number pulled out of your dark place. That isnt even close to near if you play against competent players.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-21 at 05:01 PM ----------



    The problem with that is that it wouldnt have time to even stack to 3-4 with the current damage from warriors
    Again, representation is different for hybrid classes than it is for pure classes. Druids have 3 specs to play and some prefer playing other styles, and hybrid specs don't get a lot of play when even when they're overpowered. Having 3 different specs pollutes the representation data by quite a bit. Ferals were also overpowered at the start of cata (although they were QUICKLY nerfed) but despite being OP, nobody played them. For hybrids, a lot of people prefer other playstyles and/or invested their conquest points in another spec and cannot easily switch. Lets say you have a tier 2 resto druid -- you cannot just easily switch to feral for arena and be competetive. You can't be competetive at a 2200 level in blues or tier 1 gear. So you stay resto.

    I'm sure you can browse through arenajunkies and find for out for yourself. These are multi gladiator players making such comments. I'd say a good 95% of the posters there (multi glad) have a concensus that shadow priests and ferals are by far the most powerful classes in the game at the moment.

    No offense, what brackets are you playing in? I'm not trying to beat my chest or anything, but i've played at the upper levels of 2 of the best BGs, and it is clear that nearly everyone considers kitty cleave the #1 comp and ferals being insanely overpowered. The only people suggesting that ferals aren't OP are usually 1500-1800 bracket players who don't know whats going on. The concensus among top arena players on arenajunkies is that ferals are by far the most OP class in the game; top streaming players such as veev, venruki, talbadar, etc, etc also claim that ferals are the most overpowered currently. To top it off, ghostcrawler mentioned that he is closely keeping an eye on ferals.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-21 at 05:13 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Dewote View Post
    Elemental Shamans, so OP.
    Expecting at least 20% nerf to lava burst damage.
    And when you cast Ascendance you automatically get silenced so others don't have to waste CD for it.
    /sarcasm
    I'm sympathetic to ele, I think their main issue is surviving versus melee. You can literally train them into nothingness (although that also applies to many casters) but it is particularly true for ele. I think their burst seems okay, but its pretty dumb that melee and cleaves can shut them down so hard.
    Last edited by velnis; 2012-12-21 at 05:12 PM.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Nest View Post
    Feral: burst (and possibly instant cyclone)
    Warrior: Shockwave and Second Wind
    Warlock: Blood Fear nerfed

    Instant CC's overall should get nerfed. Same with the retarded burst damage that mainly Warriors and Mages do.


    As a Boomkin player, I agree. Both feral and boomkin have retarded amount of damage with Incarnation + Nature's Vigil on... :<
    a nerf to shockwave and 2nd wind would put warriors back to cata bad "worst in game"they are the only two ability's warriors got in mop they have yet to be nerfed.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by squidbear View Post
    Hopefully:

    Further Frost Bomb nerf
    small Feral nerf
    Slight tweak to Second Wind and Warrior damage
    Blood Fear changed

    They already stated Blood Fear would be getting nerfed, I think they'll probably do something like 'each time you take damage the cast time of your next fear is reduced by 10% and it's mana cost is replaced by a 1% health cost. this effect stacks up to 10 times.'
    Top mages are using nether tempest now. Pretty dumb suggestion that's not going to happen.

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