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  1. #1

    Garalon and cleave...

    I have a question concerning Garalon and combat spec.

    The first few times I was on him, I was assigned to soak the frontal cone attack, so that was not a real DPS check.
    This week however I was just on the legs and my DPS was not really what I wanted it to be.
    Going assassination for the soak (due to having better daggers back then, and only a lvl 463 fist) I did about 65-70k damage (single target just attacking the body)
    Going combat, with the fist weapon from Garajal (took a while to get it) this week, only netted me around 75-80k DPS.
    I am standing inside the circle for the extra damage on the leg, and deactivate Bladeflurry if I cannot atack a leg.
    I expected my damage to be at least around 100k DPS due to the cleave so I think I am doing something wrong, and I am trying to find out what that might be.
    Blade Flurry damage was around 25% of my total damage, and that leads me to think I might be positioning badly.
    Does anyone has got any suggestions or an idea what can be wrong? Any tip/tricks?
    People can be whoever they choose to be on the internet - It is strange that so many people choose to be stupid.

    every time I see someone mentioning the word "rouge" I get the urge to say "yes, we are overpowdered"...

  2. #2
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
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    Do you have a log of your attempts? It's quite possible this was merely as positional issue.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  3. #3
    These numbers seem very low.

    I am the main tank of our group but go DPS in single tank fights due to better damage than the other one. I can compete with our Frost DK and Rogue, but our numbers are considerably higher. The DK is soaking together with the other tank and nets at ~ 135k up to 150k dps, when a lot of the legs spawn in the front (ilvl 490), our rogue typically has something between 120 and 140k dps (ilvl 492, he is not the best rogue unfortunately). As a fury with ilvl 485 in dps spec I end up between 120 and 140k dps depending on crit luck etc. So even in your gear, 100 k should be easily breakable.

  4. #4
    sorry, don't have a log available unfortunately.
    People can be whoever they choose to be on the internet - It is strange that so many people choose to be stupid.

    every time I see someone mentioning the word "rouge" I get the urge to say "yes, we are overpowdered"...

  5. #5
    Legendary! Ryme's Avatar
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    Fair enough, bear in mind any answers here will now contain a larger margin of error, do you remember how you positioned yourself? Can you give a brief logic walkthrough of your rotation?
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  6. #6
    Blade flurry will only cleave targets that are within melee range. On Garalon this means you will have to position yourself quite close to him. Standing in the leg circle is not enough, you need to be close enough to the body as well. Our rogue was having the same problem.

  7. #7
    We usually let our Ranged DPS (except our Warlock, which is multidotting the legs) sit on the body, with our Warrior and Combat Rogue being the only ones on the legs. They kill a leg just before the next spawns, with both sitting around 110K dps easily. Our Ranged sit around 80K, and only dps legs at the start (with Hero to nuke down all 4 legs in just a few sec to make the boss as slow as he can be).

  8. #8
    I am having the same problem. My gems, reforges, etc are perfectly tuned for assasination, so in Garalon I just equip my lfr HoF fist weapon at main hand, and my best dagger at offhand. My best tries as Combat were about 80k but when I switched back to assassination I got 90k+ without too much effort. I know that I am not used to play combat as I only used it in this fight and Stone Guards, but I am sure I should be doing much better.
    I can't link my armory, but it's Progrock at Twilight's Hammer EU

  9. #9
    Mechagnome Sanguinezor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neithan88 View Post
    I am having the same problem. My gems, reforges, etc are perfectly tuned for assasination, so in Garalon I just equip my lfr HoF fist weapon at main hand, and my best dagger at offhand. My best tries as Combat were about 80k but when I switched back to assassination I got 90k+ without too much effort. I know that I am not used to play combat as I only used it in this fight and Stone Guards, but I am sure I should be doing much better.
    I can't link my armory, but it's Progrock at Twilight's Hammer EU
    Perfectly tuned for Assassination is terribly attuned for Combat.
    Mastery stacking Assassination vs Haste Stacking Combat.
    If you reforge all your gear to haste and still cant peak 80k. Then you have a problem

    OP
    Patcherke, Can you link armory please?

  10. #10
    High Overlord Mogai's Avatar
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    i got 480 ilvl with 4 463(3 upgraded to 471 wich one is offhand fist weapon) and i pull 100k dps on garalon without any problem. only thing i can think of is positioning yourself closer to garalons body when dpsing the legs. sorry for bad english.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Sanguinezor View Post
    Perfectly tuned for Assassination is terribly attuned for Combat.
    Mastery stacking Assassination vs Haste Stacking Combat.
    If you reforge all your gear to haste and still cant peak 80k. Then you have a problem

    OP
    Patcherke, Can you link armory please?
    Honestly, it shouldn't matter at all for which spec is better. I'm using assassination reforges and I still do 140kdps on garalon as combat (and thats with most of the damn raid on the legs cause they know it doesn't matter on normal). Exactly how much you do obviously is going to depend on gear and BF uptime, but switching mastery to haste is only a couple thousand dps and shouldn't be anywhere near BF if done properly (even post nerf).

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by NotPrepared View Post
    Blade flurry will only cleave targets that are within melee range. On Garalon this means you will have to position yourself quite close to him. Standing in the leg circle is not enough, you need to be close enough to the body as well. Our rogue was having the same problem.
    This absolutely has to be your issue. Remember it's a tight cone. I would suggest being VERY close to the leg, and facing the body if you are just assigned to dps. You can also save cools for legs- they will die faster, and the cooldown will still affect the boss. Don't mess with spree in general ofc.


    The only time I've been below 100k on this fight is when he spawned exactly one frontal leg (I'm in the tank spot). Every other time my damage is super great. Simply put, I don't think you are flurrying right.

  13. #13
    Unless there is some other melee "stealing" leg damage from you (e.g. they are going down really fast, so you arent getting much cleave uptime) I would guess your positioning is incorrect.

    Some thoughts:

    First obvious remark, do you have your camera zoomed out all the way? If not, it will be hard to see if your cleaves are hitting the boss or not.

    Second, you need to be BETWEEN the leg and the body. You need to basically be in his armpit, if bugs had armpits.

    Third, you are cleaving from leg to body, right?

    The first time I did this fight as combat my damage wasn't particularly high. One of the main reasons for this is that our ranged were nuking down the legs as soon as they spawn. If your ranged are focusing the legs, they should stop. If it's normal mode you should be able to almost solo down the legs. The legs spawn every 30s- as long as you can kill them within that 30s window, and you are cleaving, it's more efficient dps for your ranged to just focus down the body. On heroic mode, it takes a bit more finesse in figuring out how to handle leg damage vs body damage, so it would be good practice for your group.

  14. #14
    Face the middle of the circle with your back at the boss. BFs cleave will hit targets anywhere around you if they are in melee range. Once i realized this i shot from 90k dps to 140k

  15. #15
    The Lightbringer Payday's Avatar
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    Don't be too afraid to KS the legs..it's really not that difficult to get in a safe position to spree the leg (while cleaving the body as well) and not trigger the stomp. I was terrified at first but after 2 weeks of Garalon I am yet to trigger it, and am fairly confident that it wont happen using my method. By popping KS immediately after the initial pheremones go out, I reliably pull 225k+ for the first (4) legs initially and end the encounter around 150k overall. 388 ilvl

    Someone did a write-up in WoW Forums a while back that included a diagram that convinced me to give it a shot. I suggest you try it on Raid Finder first, if you haven't already.

  16. #16
    The "armpit" analogy is the best I've heard, use that. When you are a tank there's a rather small area you can stand in and both get the cone blast, be considered facing the leg, and be considered facing the boss. As dps, you have a larger area, but if you focus on that "armpit" area you should do ok. There's also addons that will make some graphics if flurry is working, so consider that.

    The trick with spree is that it won't go onto the body if the body is out of range at the start. Payday, I'd suggest posting those diagrams. I simply don't recommend spree in general- it's a pretty advanced trick because on success you do a wee bit more dps and on failure the entire attempt can be wasted.

  17. #17
    Verain, do you have a link to that addon? I have occasions where I'm thinking "there should really be an addon that tells me what target my cleave is landing on right now so I don't have to pay attention to the combat text" but then I just go back to doing what I've always been doing, and that is looking for yellow numbers popping up over something.

  18. #18
    The Lightbringer Payday's Avatar
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    The Yellow dot is YOU.

    The discussion can be found here:
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7383168494

    It doesn't seem that hard to execute for me, although I only use it when I can (i.e legs that spawn on the outer edges of the room when kiting him around are off limits) I'd say I use it 6/10 times that I would use it on a non-restricted encounter though.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by rayanne View Post
    Unless there is some other melee "stealing" leg damage from you (e.g. they are going down really fast, so you arent getting much cleave uptime) I would guess your positioning is incorrect.
    In my guild all dps nuke the legs both in the beginning and when they respawn. So obviously my BF uptime is low. Is that a wrong tactic? Should I be the only one that nukes the legs?

  20. #20
    Honestly it doesn't really matter on normal, especially after the extended the enrage timer. But if you think about it:

    Boss health: 218M
    Leg health: 6.5M (3% * 218M = 6.5M)

    Every time leg dies, boss loses 3% of health. But the legs have the same health pool as what they are taking away from the boss. The only advantage to killing the legs is from the buff you get by standing in the circle. There are three scenarios when doing leg DPS:

    1) Leg DPS + 100% damage buff from standing in circle = Removing 3% of boss' health 2x faster!
    2) Leg DPS + 100% damage buff from standing in circle + cleave = Removing 3% of boss' faster, and doing additional damage to boss at the same time!
    3) Leg DPS + not standing in circle = Same thing as attacking the boss, with slight added benefit from multidotting classes, I guess.

    Out of the above 3 scenarios, (2) is the most efficient use of DPS. Anything done by (1) or (2) is removing cleave opportunity from (2). However, if (2) is not able to get the legs down within the 30s spawn time, additional DPS should be added, preferably of the (1) type.


    Again, balancing the DPS is more important on heroic where the enrage is tight, and meeting the enrage really seems to depend on balancing body vs leg dps (unless you just outgear the encounter). Also depends on comp. Groups that 2 tank, 3 heal have to struggle with this more, and if you look at their logs you'll normally see that a rogue & warrior will do most of the leg damage, with some help from a hunter or a mage. Also their "time between kills" on the legs will be pretty constant, and hover around the 30s mark (except for first four, obviously) At this point I think a lot of groups have the gear to not even worry about this, but I feel it's just an "overpower the eff out of this boss" strategy and not really one with finesse. But I digress. Sometimes I get sad when people outgear a DPS check fight, like H Gara'jal.
    Last edited by rayanne; 2012-12-18 at 09:34 PM.

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