Looking back at swtor over the last year

[Kelimbror]

Beside, if an engine cannot be changed after release, it can be upgraded. Blizzard upgrade its engine all the time, which allow them to develop new technology such as phasing, DX11 support, 64bit support, cross realm gameplay... They also update character model, because of the improvement of the actual engine, so it's doable.

Blizzard created their own engine, from the ground up, in order to make this game. They can improve it, because they made it.

BiowarEA took a 25% done, beta version of an engine made by another company, and tried to slap some coding duct tape on it to make what they needed for SWTOR. Then all of the people responsible for making it apparently were fired/quit. Now you have people with no "Hero Engine for Dummies" experience trying to just guess their way through using it to utilize their programming.

Surely you can see how these are vastly different things.

---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 11:36 AM ----------

Didn't buy because it is expensive

But was wondering if I could just get a 1 month sub and then at least change gear even after I lost my sub.

Any gear you equip during your sub will still be usable after your sub ends. You will lose the ability to equip new gear at that point however.

[aistee]

still got me hooked. Can't seem my self going back to wow any time soon. Tried TSW, TERA and GW2 and they all sucked

[Deleted]

Blizzard created their own engine, from the ground up, in order to make this game. They can improve it, because they made it.

BiowarEA took a 25% done, beta version of an engine made by another company, and tried to slap some coding duct tape on it to make what they needed for SWTOR. Then all of the people responsible for making it apparently were fired/quit. Now you have people with no "Hero Engine for Dummies" experience trying to just guess their way through using it to utilize their programming.

Surely you can see how these are vastly different things.

Is that a fact or an opinion though? I'm talking about the underlined/bolded portion.

I ask because that seems very specific information that I haven't seen released (granted I didn't follow exactly who got fired).

I'm sure the rest is factual but I know personally how easy it is to slip in opinions amidst facts and have them 'blend in' so I thought I'd double check with you before I bash BW on this subject.

---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 05:50 PM ----------

still got me hooked. Can't seem my self going back to wow any time soon. Tried TSW, TERA and GW2 and they all sucked

Likewise, I still find the urge to log in daily and while that continues so will my subscription.

[Kelimbror]

Is that a fact or an opinion though? I'm talking about the underlined/bolded portion.

Apparently implies that I am inferring that information from what we know. It is not factual or concrete. Though for the purposes of comparison, the point is valid.

It's actually by my good graces I'm trying to give them that much of an excuse as to why x,y,z haven't been implemented or fixed yet. HK has discussed similar ideas. It's been so bad at times that they have to not even know what is going on. If everyone remains that have experience with the engine, then the situation is far worse than we could imagine.

I'm actually trying to be more positive by giving them a huge out.

[RoninaThorstone]

I think the fact that they haven't been able to do real server transfers (like gw2 or rift), took them half a year to get F2P implemented, they can't fix their FPS issues, they can't add chat bubbles, ect ect ect... Really seems to imply that they don't know how to work their engine.

[Kagonos]

You are the first person which I hear saying that skipping tons of trash/ bosses, especially if you don't need anything just to complete a daily and finishing a flashpoint in less than half an hour, is a bad thing.



So using a Boss Mechanic against him is a "bad thing"?... Seriously... the boss fight which shall/ must be named here is HK in the Foundry (regarding bugged encounter) and not Malgus who can be cheesed out by standing at the right location using his own mechanic against him. That's just..

Sorry to drag the topic off the engine discussion, but I only just now got the time to respond. To your first point, I don't mind skipping some stuff to expedite the run, believe me, I play WoW so I know how it is to skip trash. Why I point it out is that they spend so much time developing a dungeon/op, fill it with trash and then give us a thousand different ways to just simply act as though it's not there. As to bosses, they create a fight with specific mechanics that can be completely avoided, so why even bother with coming up with those mechanics? Just make a guy that sits there and swings on the tank, never doing anything except occasionally leaping to a target not in melee range? Then, if you position it just right, he dies immediately. That for a final boss in a dungeon where the lead up is drawn out and dramatic and he jumps down from his throne and kinda looks like Darth Vader without his helmet on. I didn't know about the HK fight being buggy in the Foundry, but that's just yet another thing.

My point isn't that I don't take advantage of encounter quirks, or skip trash, it's just me pointing out the failure of the company in making a finished, polish product. And when, a YEAR into the game, these issues persist (not that I expect them to go back and make people fight trash in an OP or a FP, so don't try to say that I'm arguing for this) they do not hotfix the encounters. Wouldn't YOU as a developer, who is proud of creating a boss fight be a bit annoyed by the fact that people don't even fight the boss you created in the intended fashion? It's really just proof that the product was and has been rushed and when issues persist, there is little in the way of fixes. I'm not trying to bash, but the topic was SWtoR over the last year. These are the lasting impressions that I have of the game from the year or so I have been subscribed. It's a bit disappointing and indicative of a lack of support for the game beyond the Cartel Coins and the new (purchasable) "expansion" (about which we know VERY little.)

[traen]

My point isn't that I don't take advantage of encounter quirks, or skip trash, it's just me pointing out the failure of the company in making a finished, polish product. And when, a YEAR into the game, these issues persist (not that I expect them to go back and make people fight trash in an OP or a FP, so don't try to say that I'm arguing for this) they do not hotfix the encounters. Wouldn't YOU as a developer, who is proud of creating a boss fight be a bit annoyed by the fact that people don't even fight the boss you created in the intended fashion? It's really just proof that the product was and has been rushed and when issues persist, there is little in the way of fixes.

Honestly, I think that you are a little bit wrong about it.

If you played MMOs before WoW you would know that developers usually don't really balance anything. They create a boss, put some stats, some mechanics and let players to deal with it the way they like. They did not really care if you avoid some of its mechanics in some way.
Its just WoW where developers started to think about boss balance and hardcore pve.

Obviously swtor developers are oldschool developers who think that players can play the way they like. If they want to kill the boss skipping part of its mechanics and they found the way to do so - so be it. That's why they don't really fix anything.

Its just different approach to game development. Just look at any other game. If you fail to kill something hard, search the internet and most likely someone already discovered the tactics that makes the encounter trivial.

[Psychlon]

...

New player probably won't know this, if you can skip/ kill stuff faster because you have been run it several times and find a way to make it easier is kinda reward for knowing the game better.

Is that a fact or an opinion though?

Customer always know better and how everything works in detail which gives us strengh to argue like we would know anything about. In reality we are staring at a wall, hear noises behind it and try to make sense while arguing about the kind of sound with other people.

[moff]

playing pandaria right now, I realize more than ever the strengths and weaknesses of swtor.
leveling in wow is just such a pain. I never had a single alt in wow, but in swtor I had three 50s and a 46. leveling is so much better. I dont know how other people feel, but for me, there is a sense of purpose in swtor. you have your class story and a faction story on every planet, and even if you skip the cutscenes, the fact that questgivers actually talk to you in an animated way gives a much bigger feel for purpose. although there are more cutscenes in pandaria than ever before in wow, thats nowhere near swtors level.

on the other hand, pandaria looks simply beautiful. I didnt play many MMOs, some UO, many years of wow, a little bit GW2 and a whole year of swtor, but pandaria is easily the most beautiful one, and that with such an old engine, simply incredible. they are so full of life and feel like a real world, in contrast to swtors empty wastelands, but as I have said many times before, I still think the hero engine is the main reason for swtors downfall. although I have to admit, I never loved the art design either. and hate blizzard all you want, but that is where they really shine.

what really surprised me is that pandaria doesnt seem to offer any elite quests while leveling anymore. that really amused be, because many wow-fans bashed swtor for being a single player game. given the massive amount of 2+ and 4player quests swtor clearly wins that here, but I always defended swtor when it came to that. just because it offers the most enjoyable single player experience of all MMOs, that doesnt mean there is any less MMO content. many many people bashed it unjustly because of that, and it still angers me when people call it a single player game. sure, the dynamic group quets of GW2 are king here, no doubt. but swtor does really well.

one of swtors biggest strenghts for me were always the class mechanics. all classes are incredibly fun and in my opinion, pandaria has not reached that level yet, although I enjoy my mage as never before, they have certainly improved on that.

all in all, its still a little bit a mistery to me why swtor failed to hard, I still blame the engine. I think endgame was good at launch and the updates were good, too, in the first months. but maybe people just dont see a reason to play the second best MMO when they can play the best one for the same money. and wow's endgame is still best by far.

[Kelimbror]

all in all, its still a little bit a mistery to me why swtor failed to hard, I still blame the engine. I think endgame was good at launch and the updates were good, too, in the first months. but maybe people just dont see a reason to play the second best MMO when they can play the best one for the same money. and wow's endgame is still best by far.

Well there's a couple of reasons. One large one is customer service. If you have a problem in WoW, it's going to get fixed. Even the free players who haven't given them a dime will get the same service. Additionally, WoW is much mor rewarding now for an average player than any MMO.

This might alienate more hardcore people, but pleases a much larger portion of the remaining player base. Broken down just into activities that can be done in one game compared to another is what a large portion of people find enjoyable. If you run out of things to do in one, but always have something to do in another, it makes logical and financial sense to go with the better value.

I think this is really why people like me gave hundreds of suggestions to add things to this game via mini games, expanded content, expanded space etc. They really had the possibility to go above and beyond current standards before Mists came out and they didn't even meet an outdated bar. People say to give everything time, but MMOs don't have a long shelf life anymore.

Sure they might have servers on for a long time, but the chance to have a massive following passes in the blink of an eye. If they completely overhaul how they manage the game and let their developers actually create new ideas, there might be a chance for the game to grow again. Right now it's really not looking very good. Who knows though, maybe Makeb will blow us all away.

[Clattuc]

all in all, its still a little bit a mistery to me why swtor failed to hard, I still blame the engine. I think endgame was good at launch and the updates were good, too, in the first months. but maybe people just dont see a reason to play the second best MMO when they can play the best one for the same money. and wow's endgame is still best by far.

SWTOR "failed so hard" simply because it was developed, marketed, sold and hosted to be a multimillion player Star Wars MMO. But there is no such game, and all the muscle and hot air at EA can't wish one into existence. I think they were in denial about this for most of 2012 -- but not anymore.

[Deleted]

Read the entire thread xD The #1 thing I see is lack of end-game content and that this was raised up time and time again in feedback over the past year. So it baffles my why isn't BW trying to do EVERYTHING to fix it. By everything, I mean literally throwing every piece of idea they have to make end-game content. Pazaak mini-game hello (how long would it take to develop it, seriously? Not to mention that they could have the entire card system for trade/sell etc), weekly/bi-weekly/monthly events like IDK, Sand People invade the entire galaxy blah blah Community must kill 10 million Sand People and if its achieved everyone will get something cool (like ME3 weekly Operations). Those are things that really don't seem to require much dev resources to me at all but would make something happen in the game all the time.

[Jaronicity]

I was so excited for this game when it came out. I had swore off WoW (for the second time) and had enjoyed a summer of trying out Rift. When SWTOR released its early access I stopped Rift and joined in the "saga." That continued even through the low population servers and me having a toon on the Australian servers as well. I rejoiced when they merged the servers and I felt like I could run content again. I got a bad feeling when the Aussie server was getting dangerously low on population as there were only 3 servers all different types. It sealed it for me when I'd log on to my SI and would see 50 people on fleet where there used to be several instances. Sure, my NA server toons had more people but I didn't like the idea of just losing what I considered my main "main" - 3 toons on NA to play with sibs and my Aussie toon on account of my living/working in AUS.

Looking back, and after having jumped into Rift's new expansion, I can safely say that SWTOR has the best leveling experience aka 1-49 I have experienced, but sorely lacks in endgame content compared to others on the market. And what happened to rated Warzones? Wasn't that supposed to be a huge thing? A year after the fact it's kinda like, "Are they even doing this?". All this said, I did really enjoy SWTOR PVP on my assassin especially since they buffed my fave tree, but in the end everything I was doing in-game was not enough to justify me paying for anything. I get preferred status, but haven't logged in since November and this new expansion doesn't interest me except for the extended class stories and that's not worth the $40, in my opinion. I kinda want to check out the Cartel market and use all those coins I got for subbing for so long, but then I remember that I wouldn't be doing anything. My sister still plays and the new term is "Christmas noob" pertaining to those who play for free after having gotten it for Christmas (I would imagine). Sigh, it was fun while it lasted. RIP SWTOR

EDIT: and as you can see, I am too lazy to change my sig and avatar

[Levity]

As I read this entire forum I realized a couple things, only a very tiny minority actually said anything good about the game. I am going to give a lesson in how a company works: First of all it is a company, companies run for the sole ability to gain profit. Their products are either marked as an asset or liability. When a product becomes the source of lessening revenue it becomes a liability and a company will phase it out. In a gaming company that controls a very good spread of gaming titles that will always offer good revenue, do you really think they will give a shit about SWTOR if it's player base constantly bash any attempt they try to make at improving the game? Why would they waste the effort and time to do so when every remark is just to bash it just because. It derives no motivation for them to do anything more then just sit back and let it die. You want the next big SW MMO, then give Bioware a reason to make it so.
Second everytime I hear the "It has no content." comment I about laugh my ass off. I've played almost every MMO there is, counting straight f2p. KO, SWG, WoW, LoA, EQ, GW. I'm a hardcore gamer when it comes to MMO's and guess the fuck what? In every single instance I was sitting at some point saying to myself, "Well what now?" Even WoW goes months and months without content. It takes time, it takes patience. Programming isn't something just just pops into existance. It takes time, it takes finesse, it's an art. And you can't just throw a bunch of random shit into an algorithm and expect it to work properly. IT TAKES TIME. People have no patience nowadays. And everyone who left the first 3 months of TOR because of lack of content are morons. No game can consistantly pull content out of their ass every month without it being buggy as shit. So this content deal is a mute point and really shouldn't even be something to complain about.

Third there's a lot of good in SWTOR. The crafting system is amazing. "Hey I'm in this nm op that might take 3-4 hours, but I'm also crafting/gathering my resources at the same time!" I don't know about you but whenever I hear my companion come back I see dollars signs. The interface editor is by far the best I have seen to date in an mmo. The companions as a whole are awesome. I love 1 manning a 2 man, and 2 manning a 4 man. Also some of the most unque boss fights I've seen are in SWTOR and that alone will make me always willing to do any op sm, hm, or nm. As well as the amount of stuff they've actually fixed: amoring that gives bonus's. Resetting skills doesn't cost money. My guild Smoke N Mirrors were one of the firsts to down NM 8 man KP on our server before 1.2, but SOA remained impossible. Of course it was annoying with the bugs but we fought and we did it as well. It took time, but the enjoyment and the self satisfaction of it was good enough for me. I can't say the same for WoW in cata and mists. I couldn't stand the cookie cutter boss fights. Last time I probably enjoyed raids in WoW was BC. 40 man what?!

Fourth. I go back to everyone bashing this game as if it was never wanted in the first place. I'll start with an example. Games are like football for me. I love the Patriots, I love to see them win, I love to see them go to the super bowl, but I love football as a whole. So I will watch every football game by every other team because I enjoy it. Just like games. It's like the gaming community for any game seems to want to knit pick the shit that doesn't matter just to have something to complain about. But I am a fan of games, I will always look at what is good about the game above what is bad. I see no SERIOUS issues with SWTOR except one: The supposed "fan" base who do nothing but drive Bioware away from a game that could end up being really badass. It's a two way street, they need to be motivated to put things into the game that will get players motivated, but they will never be motivated when there's just hate for their game that they tried hard as hell to make. And if you think otherwise then you are not helping the issue. If you want TOR to be a success it's fan base needs to start expressing why it is a success. Do you think someone is going to pick up the game after reading this forum? Fuck no, in all honesty I started thinking why am I even playing it? But I remembered quickly why. Because if you have the right mindset of a gamer, then a good game is a fucken good game. and SWTOR is a good game.

[Kelimbror]

First of all it is a company, companies run for the sole ability to gain profit.

False. It would be a much darker world if this were true.

Second everytime I hear the "It has no content." comment I about laugh my ass off. I've played almost every MMO there is, counting straight f2p. KO, SWG, WoW, LoA, EQ, GW. I'm a hardcore gamer when it comes to MMO's and guess the fuck what? In every single instance I was sitting at some point saying to myself, "Well what now?" Even WoW goes months and months without content.

People like you never understand that going 'months and months without content' isn't the problem. Sure it is a problem, but the fact is that the systems in place for content variety are woefully inadequate compared to the rest of the market. It's straight bullshit to spin it any other way

Third there's a lot of good in SWTOR.

First honest true thing you've said. Too bad the game isn't running itself and has to be run by a company that doesn't know what it is doing.

The crafting system is amazing. "Hey I'm in this nm op that might take 3-4 hours, but I'm also crafting/gathering my resources at the same time!"

False. The crafting system has no depth and almost no use. Having companions do it seemed awesome at first, but most people realize it is a gimmick. Not only that, but it prevents you from leveling the professions at your own pace and how you choose. It's terrible. At worst, it's a completely lazy system that takes no effort from an individual.

The interface editor is by far the best I have seen to date in an mmo.

LotRO has the same complexity of an editor, though it doesn't look as pretty, and it came out when WoW did. It also launched with it. SWTOR scrambled to get it in because a) the default UI was horrible and b)every other game practically had one. I'm not going to applaud features that should have been in at launch or act like every other game doesn't have the same capabilities.

The companions as a whole are awesome. I love 1 manning a 2 man, and 2 manning a 4 man. Also some of the most unque boss fights I've seen are in SWTOR!

Companions are awesome. Fights, though not challenging for the most part, were incredibly fun. Doesn't have anything on other raiding games in terms of uniqueness though. Just not even close.

I love the Patriots

Now I see why I sense I wouldn't like you. Gross.

On your closing statement. You say that if you want it to be successful people need to start saying it and that just makes it be. No. No more caving in, white knighting for developers who ruin a game that had unlimited potential. If something is a pile of monetized shit, I'm not going to sugar coat it and pretend it's amazing. Fuck that noise. We pay for a damned service. Bioware, who isn't even in charge, do not need to be motivated to make a good game by the fans of this game. It's their job. If they can't do their job, they need to leave.

I take the most issue with your appalling statements for people to just rally to the company to give them all sorts of emotional support...people like you are the reason why they will continue to cater to a dwindling audience, demanding them to fork out 4x the money they should be, instead of giving a quality game. Blame yourself, don't blame everyone else.

[Regalbeast]

So I actually just started playing TOR today, for the first time. I'm a long time WoW player and I've tried a few other MMO's but they dull in comparison to WoW. I wasn't sure how TOR would hold my attention or what I would think of it.....but I have to say, it's a little better than I imagined. The F2P aspect of it is awful, you pretty much can't do anything without a Sub. The gameplay is awesome though, and it truly feels like a story that you play through, not just an endless grind. I'm only level 10 though, so that could obviously all change. I won't sub to the game, just cause I don't want to give my money to EA, but for now I am enjoying it.

[Deleted]

I tried ToR a year ago and wasn't impressed.

Now I decided to try again since it's f2p and I've been having so much fun I couldn't believe it. Probably due to having a new pc now it feels like I can truly enjoy the graphics and everything. Leveling a Sith Sorceress and can't wait to see more of the story. I also dropped my WoW subscription but it probably has to do with the fact that I was growing bored of it more and more every day. Leveling a new character is just impossible due to the aged design and environments in the old zones and I didn't enjoy max level either.

So yeah, I'm very positive about the leveling at least. We'll see what happens at 50.

[WoWGoneBad]

False. The crafting system has no depth and almost no use. Having companions do it seemed awesome at first, but most people realize it is a gimmick. Not only that, but it prevents you from leveling the professions at your own pace and how you choose. It's terrible. At worst, it's a completely lazy system that takes no effort from an individual.

dude you may like sitting at a node for 5 seconds or sittin at a forge waiting hours for your lvling of a profession but i COULD NOT STAND IT ONE FUCKING BIT!!!!!!!!
I LOVED taht while me and Aric are ut wrecking the galaxy full of body bags that my other comps are getting what I needed for my Team and making sure we are stuffed with mats. I cann have them craft while I run Ops and sell stuff on GTN afterward and call it a night. in Other MMOs I would have to log 2HOURS before raid farm for 1 1/2 of those hours spend the other 30min waiting forge creating what I wanted or just standing there looking bored while crafting and THEN raid.
Here SWTOR allows your team to do it FOR you yeah you cnat craft your self but i say MEH why craft when i can be killin Imps in either PvP or Dailies

People like you never understand that going 'months and months without content' isn't the problem. Sure it is a problem, but the fact is that the systems in place for content variety are woefully inadequate compared to the rest of the market. It's straight bullshit to spin it any other way

run dailies pvp craft run pve craft go farm mats craft og pvp craft go pve craft farm mats craft do a instance craft farm mats do a raid farm mats craft......................

this is what i see in the MMOS I have played(WoW STO GW) so what exactly is different in SWTOR?? first you say its not a problem then you say it is, the systems in place for other mmos include the same farm craft run raid pvp instance..... the same as SWTOR so what is SWTOR "missing" that other MMOs have

---------- Post added 2013-02-06 at 01:48 PM ----------

I tried ToR a year ago and wasn't impressed.

So yeah, I'm very positive about the leveling at least. We'll see what happens at 50.

nowadays there is a bit to do at 50. there is still the grind for dailies but with all 3 operations now up n running its good times(at least for me) there are weeklies hat give comms for old content and the HM Ops are a BLAST i love doing EC and Astation and Lost Island no matter how many times ive done it is still fun and killin rakghouls is fun. if your into the PvP thing i can be fun ( i suck at it so not so much for me lol) I hope they are going to do something to Ilum to add a small PvP element to it

[Kelimbror]

dude you may like sitting at a node for 5 seconds or sittin at a forge waiting hours for your lvling of a profession but i COULD NOT STAND IT ONE FUCKING BIT!!!!!!!!
*snip*
in Other MMOs I would have to log 2HOURS before raid farm for 1 1/2 of those hours spend the other 30min waiting forge creating what I wanted or just standing there looking bored while crafting and THEN raid.
Here SWTOR allows your team to do it FOR you yeah

It's the epitome of lazy. If you cba to go out in the world and do something for your profession, that's just lame. It would be a great system if in addition to your companions you could also do it yourself, whether it was on your ship or on the fleet. Then it would be a mostly non issue to me, because you could still do it at your own pace.

I stand by what I said regarding the professions to be mostly worthless in having no depth. Even after all the tweaks they did, there's not a lot you get out of the professions other than stims and augments. That's poor design IMO. It doesn't synergize with the rest of the game very well.

this is what i see in the MMOS I have played(WoW STO GW) so what exactly is different in SWTOR?? first you say its not a problem then you say it is, the systems in place for other mmos include the same farm craft run raid pvp instance..... the same as SWTOR so what is SWTOR "missing" that other MMOs have

Sigh...I knew I should have bolded, underlined, and italicized subtle language differences to prevent this. Let me requote myself.

going 'months and months without content' isn't the problem. Sure it is a problem

I'm sure I don't need to explain the differences in the word 'the' and the word 'a'. I didn't contradict myself. Other games have a vast swathe of things to do compared to SWTOR. This has been discussed to no end, in multiple threads, and leads to people who are fans of whatever game trying to turn into a game vs game thing, instead of objectively comparing a number of features.

It's simple qualitative data, which involves counting and no personal bias, and will not be reiterated upon as moderators were kind enough to call spades a spade and then let everyone move on. You'll just have to take my word for it or go find the thread.

[smokii]

i played a sith inquisitor for about 3/4 months from launch - got a bunch of my guildies from wow to try it out and we succesfully raided for a month or 2 - but what really annoyed me about SWtor, was the loading screens and the "walled off" planets

i just lost sense of infinite universe from the amount of loading screens you had to go through getting from one planet to the next - i dont know if they've fixed this yet, but it got tedious. i could live with all the voice acting and quite enjoyed it, i could live with the slow ass speeder speeds, i could even live without auto attack, but i lost interest when i went from the fleet to a planet, realised i'd forgot to pick something up from my bank and had to go all the way back through 20+ mins of boredom to get back to where i was and what i wanted to be doing.

if SWtor had more of a seamless world aspect to it, i would've been much more impressed - it was advertised as having the cutscenes play whilst it loaded in the background - that never happened and it thoroughly dissapointed me, as not only did you have to watch the small cinematic, but you then had to wait for the loading screen as well - when they were supposed to overlap each other and shorten the visible loading time, it felt like it increased it dramatically.

i had real high hopes for SWtor, but i was sadly dissapointed - i gave it a good 6 months of my game time and i honestly wanted it to be good, but it just didn't do it for me, there was too many little issues that devalued the content for me.