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  1. #901
    Quote Originally Posted by SirRobin View Post
    What keeps bringing the "gun control" debate back to the political foreground is not all the various gun crimes that happen far too often. What does it is the legal gun owners committing mass shootings, or letting others take their guns and committing mass shootings. The problem here is not hardened criminals buying submachine guns in back alleys. Its citizens legally buying their firearms in gun shops or at gun shows and then killing, or letting others kill, us with them.

    The answer isn't letting the legal gun owners convince us to get guards to protect us from the legal gun owners' guns. The answer is to make it harder for the legal gun owners to kill as many of us whenever they decide too. The percentage is minor because its rare. However the cost of each attack is far out of proportion with the frequency. Rare but incredibly costly.
    That's a nice summary of all the posts you have made in these threads. I agree with you.

  2. #902
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rami-Gilneas View Post
    Over 100.000 times per year guns are used to injure or kill people in america, so every 3000th american is directly affected and the chance of being injured by a gun is 2.5 times as high as to die in a car accident.

    Guns are made to injure and to kill, thats their main purpose and of course this includes hunting.
    So its much more likely that they are used for what they were made for than for sports.
    You will have to offer the source of your claim before I give your claim any credence. Till that time I'm going to conclude that its made up. that said, if you examine the FBI crime statistics and the NHTSA statistics, you will find that 8775 people died to gun related homicides, thats ALL guns combined, not just assault style weapons... while over 32000 died over the same period to motor vehicle accidents. Where as there are 272,000,000+ guns in the US, and there are only 243,000,000 motor vehicles... So, statistically, you are 4 times more likely to die as a result of a motor vehicle than to a gun related homicide.

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  3. #903
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    I just want to comment on some of the posts made here, I find it HILARIOUS, and I think WTF in my head, when I see people posting about having gun safes in their homes, which their kids as young as 7 or w/e have access to. When I was growing up, I had no clue what a gun was, let alone being fucking trained to shoot one by my parent. You people are robbing children of their innocence just like the shooter at new town did, you are just as bad if not worse than the problem at hand. Just wanted to get that off my chest.

  4. #904
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    Quote Originally Posted by JfmC View Post
    The irony is that the NRA (I know not all their members are like this, but generally speaking) doesn't give a damn about the constitution, they only defend it because selling weapons is big business


    But hey, look at al the jobs guns create ... (I'm trying to see 1 positive thing about having loads of guns in a country)
    Thought you wanted to be an objective journalist, when folks know which way you are biased then its impossible to be objective or seen as being objective... example... Walter Cronkite for nearly 50 years he was a journalist, and most of that time 'the most trusted man in America'... Why, he was impartial and objective when he reported the news. it wasn't until AFTER he retired that he came out and revealed his political leanings. THAT Sir is why he was the most trusted man in America, he left his politics out of his reporting. Sadly, today's media is so biased its nigh on impossible to find someone to trust like Uncle Walter.

    As a side note, I respect Cronkite to this day and will always, regardless of my disagreeing with his politics.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-25 at 10:06 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    The US got a major problem with romantic notions and glorifications of guns and violence in general, coupled with socioeconomic issues.
    A ban wont solve anything, regulations will help a tiny bit, but dealing with the root of the problem will do the most good.
    Bakis, you and I have many things we disagree on, but this isn't one of them. I agree that we need to address the root problem

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-25 at 10:09 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Grokan View Post
    Can you find me the percentage of gun owners that use their weapons to harm others?
    272,000,000 plus guns, 8775 gun related homicides, given the highest possible ratio by saying each homicide was committed with a different gun then the percentage of guns that are NOT used in a homicide is approximately 99.997%

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  5. #905
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    272,000,000 plus guns, 8775 gun related homicides, given the highest possible ratio by saying each homicide was committed with a different gun then the percentage of guns that are NOT used in a homicide is approximately 99.997%
    It's almost as if you're implying that guns aren't dangerous and play no role what so ever.

  6. #906
    Of course the NRA wants more guns. They work for only the manufacturers of firearms and absolutely support a public arms race to the deadliest weapons possible installed everywhere so they can make money.

    If they actually represented civilian firearm owners, they would be supportive of required training, psychological checks, and firearm safes for everyone, at the very least.

  7. #907
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grokan View Post
    Are the majority of gun crimes committed with legally owned guns? I was under the assumption that they weren't.
    Oh no, the majority of gun crimes are committed with "illegal" guns.
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  8. #908
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kymei View Post
    It's almost as if you're implying that guns aren't dangerous and play no role what so ever.
    Precisely where did I imply anything? The man made a request for the statistics, I provided the ones available from the FBI

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-25 at 10:23 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Of course the NRA wants more guns. They work for only the manufacturers of firearms and absolutely support a public arms race to the deadliest weapons possible installed everywhere so they can make money.

    If they actually represented civilian firearm owners, they would be supportive of required training, psychological checks, and firearm safes for everyone, at the very least.
    I support all three of these ideas, however, I'd like to know how you are going to get the left OR right to agree to allowing psychological checks.

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  9. #909
    Here's a mind-blowing idea. You know all those Military personal coming home to a turd-tastic economy? Instead of paying many of them unemployment, pay them to "guard" schools.

    Wow...you just lowered unemployment AND provided protection for our schools. And it didn't cost you any more then what you would have paid before.

    Another source of funding could be by cutting teachers benefits. I mean, yes, they deserve reasonable pay. They do NOT deserve plastic surgery (this is actually part of at least one teachers union contract).

    Or we could do what some school districts are already doing by having one or two teachers go through training to handle a firearm and letting THEM protect the schools.

    These are just the first three idea's off the top of my head, with little thought put into it.

    Seriously...the funding IS out there if our dear old politicians actually made any sort of effort to solve the problem. However they didn't run for office with intentions of working. So, instead, they'll try to force a knee-jerk, nuclear bomb, reaction through when the issue could be solved with a targeted cruise missile.

  10. #910
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirRobin View Post
    Oh no, the majority of gun crimes are committed with "illegal" guns.
    I don't see why the sarcasm was needed, but O.K. I'll show myself out.

  11. #911
    I am Murloc! SirRobin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grokan View Post
    I don't see why the sarcasm was needed, but O.K. I'll show myself out.


    Hmm... Sorry, no sarcasm involved. Its true that the majority of gun crimes are being committed with illegally acquired, illegal types, or illegally modified firearms.
    Last edited by SirRobin; 2012-12-26 at 04:40 AM. Reason: Wording Isn't Right
    Sir Robin, the Not-Quite-So-Brave-As-Sir-Lancelot.
    Who had nearly fought the Dragon of Angnor.
    Who had almost stood up to the vicious Chicken of Bristol.
    And who had personally wet himself, at the Battle of Badon Hill.

  12. #912
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    I'm not feeling terribly well, so you'll have to excuse me.

  13. #913
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grokan View Post
    I'm not feeling terribly well, so you'll have to excuse me.
    No worries, hope you feel better, but I'll expand on my response if you don't mind. While it is true that the majority of gun crimes are being committed by illegal firearms. The mass shootings we are discussing are being committed by legal gun owners and or their legal firearms. That is the key distinction, besides number of casualties at each of course, between gun crimes in general and mass shootings.
    Sir Robin, the Not-Quite-So-Brave-As-Sir-Lancelot.
    Who had nearly fought the Dragon of Angnor.
    Who had almost stood up to the vicious Chicken of Bristol.
    And who had personally wet himself, at the Battle of Badon Hill.

  14. #914
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twotonsteak View Post
    Here's a mind-blowing idea. You know all those Military personal coming home to a turd-tastic economy? Instead of paying many of them unemployment, pay them to "guard" schools.

    Wow...you just lowered unemployment AND provided protection for our schools. And it didn't cost you any more then what you would have paid before.

    Another source of funding could be by cutting teachers benefits. I mean, yes, they deserve reasonable pay. They do NOT deserve plastic surgery (this is actually part of at least one teachers union contract).

    ...

    Seriously...the funding IS out there if our dear old politicians actually made any sort of effort to solve the problem. However they didn't run for office with intentions of working. So, instead, they'll try to force a knee-jerk, nuclear bomb, reaction through when the issue could be solved with a targeted cruise missile.
    I agree, the solutions are there, however the only one that the Democrats want is the reinstatement of a new Assault weapons ban. I'd think if they really gave a damn they'd go with a more comprehensive solution to the root causes, but they wont, and I'm sure that you and I will get shouted down as being dumb gun lovin red-necked idiots for our position. but eh... what are ya gonna do, right?

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  15. #915
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    As much as I wouldn't mind the soldier solution, I think it has valid criticisms that would prevent it from being instituted, mainly that it would be a bit of a police state at that point, having schools with armed guards at every door. At that point it's comparable to a prison, and we shouldn't have to go that far. Addressing gun control and how mental illnesses are handled should (I imagine) be a more effective solution.

  16. #916
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    You will have to offer the source of your claim before I give your claim any credence. Till that time I'm going to conclude that its made up. that said, if you examine the FBI crime statistics and the NHTSA statistics, you will find that 8775 people died to gun related homicides, thats ALL guns combined, not just assault style weapons... while over 32000 died over the same period to motor vehicle accidents. Where as there are 272,000,000+ guns in the US, and there are only 243,000,000 motor vehicles... So, statistically, you are 4 times more likely to die as a result of a motor vehicle than to a gun related homicide.
    Thats why I wrote "injured" by guns and not "killed" compared to the chance to die in a car accident.



    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    272,000,000 plus guns, 8775 gun related homicides, given the highest possible ratio by saying each homicide was committed with a different gun then the percentage of guns that are NOT used in a homicide is approximately 99.997%
    272.000.000 and only 8775 gun related homicides? Sounds as if there is no problem at all.

    But there are only 40.000.000 households with guns and 100.000+ gun related injuries! So maybe it depends on the statistic you use if there is a problem or not.

  17. #917
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    Thought you wanted to be an objective journalist, when folks know which way you are biased then its impossible to be objective or seen as being objective... example... Walter Cronkite for nearly 50 years he was a journalist, and most of that time 'the most trusted man in America'... Why, he was impartial and objective when he reported the news. it wasn't until AFTER he retired that he came out and revealed his political leanings. THAT Sir is why he was the most trusted man in America, he left his politics out of his reporting. Sadly, today's media is so biased its nigh on impossible to find someone to trust like Uncle Walter.
    I am indeed sbujective, as I told you it is really hard to stay objective. Also, I'm not a democrat nor a republican, because I don't believe in a 2 party system (but if I'd had to choose, I would go for democrat, because they have the least crazy people in their party).

    And you are right, I shouldn't come out for my political leanings, but since when is the NRA a political party? I also said not all their members are like that, I think there has to be at least a few who really believe the 2nd amendment. I also think the 2nd amendment is out of date.
    But believe me, the NRA is backed heavely by guess who? Arms dealers and weapon producers ... . So you don't need to have an IQ of over 200 to figure out what is going on.

  18. #918
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rami-Gilneas View Post
    Thats why I wrote "injured" by guns and not "killed" compared to the chance to die in a car accident.




    272.000.000 and only 8775 gun related homicides? Sounds as if there is no problem at all.

    But there are only 40.000.000 households with guns and 100.000+ gun related injuries! So maybe it depends on the statistic you use if there is a problem or not.
    2,346,000 motor vehicle related injuries. 243,000,000 cars... thats, wait for it.. nearly 1% of the population injuried by a motor vehicle every year... So, perhaps if you want to play the statistics game you want statistics for the SAME thing instead of trying to up the ante by moving your goalposts. I wasn't playing that game, the poster asked for information, and it was provided. I'm truly sorry it doesn't agree with your position.

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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  19. #919
    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    2,346,000 motor vehicle related injuries. 243,000,000 cars... thats, wait for it.. nearly 1% of the population injuried by a motor vehicle every year... So, perhaps if you want to play the statistics game you want statistics for the SAME thing instead of trying to up the ante by moving your goalposts. I wasn't playing that game, the poster asked for information, and it was provided. I'm truly sorry it doesn't agree with your position.
    Please, stop redirecting with these nonsense injury statistics. Motorvehicles are a commonplace part of life, most injuries with them are called accidents. You cannot compare a weapon created to inflict lethal injury on its targets with a vehicle created to transport, that when crashed happens to injure people. If you truly cannot see the difference between a car, and a firearm you're both unqualified to discuss this matter and to own a gun.

  20. #920
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    2,346,000 motor vehicle related injuries. 243,000,000 cars... thats, wait for it.. nearly 1% of the population injuried by a motor vehicle every year... So, perhaps if you want to play the statistics game you want statistics for the SAME thing instead of trying to up the ante by moving your goalposts. I wasn't playing that game, the poster asked for information, and it was provided. I'm truly sorry it doesn't agree with your position.
    I'm going to be really objective here: 1 of the first things I learned about journalism is that numbers and statistics can be used to prove anything (not to say I don't say I don't agree with you)

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