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  1. #921
    Quote Originally Posted by SirRobin View Post


    Hmm... Sorry, no sarcasm involved. Its true that the majority of gun crimes are being committed with illegally acquired, illegal types, or illegally modified firearms.
    And where do you think the come from? An underground special ilegal gun factory in Russia, then smuggled 4000km away crossing 14 countries, getting past the US border check ups and then distributed in each state, with none knowing? Yeah im sure ilegal weapons are different they have "ilegal" typed on them.

    Ilegal weapons were weapons that were legal at some point, as criminals will get the easiest weapon to get a hold on. If you have a large market and number of legal weapons you can e sure that some of them will get lost or stolen either from the owners themself or shops, heck even from the US factories themself. So in the current state you have legal weapons to thank for supplying the ilegal trade.

    And even more since the registered ammount of guns owned is way lower (logic...) then the ammount of legal weapons on sale or produced. So on top of the sold and owned ones you have the unsold ones just sitting in shops.

    Making it to be a neverending circle. If you proper regulate the legal ones and in time try to reduce it's number paired with methods to stop ilegal trafficking the whole ammount of guns will go down, it will make them harder to come by, more expensive and decress the number of shootings.

    But by reducing the number of guns that goes against what NRA stands for today, as they stand for the weapon manufacturers more then for the gun owner.
    Last edited by naturestorm; 2012-12-26 at 10:12 AM.

  2. #922
    Quote Originally Posted by sulfuric View Post
    Please, stop redirecting with these nonsense injury statistics. Motorvehicles are a commonplace part of life, most injuries with them are called accidents. You cannot compare a weapon created to inflict lethal injury on its targets with a vehicle created to transport, that when crashed happens to injure people. If you truly cannot see the difference between a car, and a firearm you're both unqualified to discuss this matter and to own a gun.
    If you cant see the similarities between misusing a car vs. a gun "you're both unqualified to discuss this matter and to own a" car.

    guns are a common place part of life... just not for you. i see guns all the time.. typical when i see a police officer on payroll.
    Fire arms are all over the place in planet sides 2 and counter strike, call of duty. so yea guns are a part of everyday life.
    Last edited by tombstoner139; 2012-12-26 at 04:47 PM.

  3. #923
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    You can't really compare weapons in video games to real cars.

  4. #924
    Titan Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by naturestorm View Post
    And where do you think the come from? An underground special ilegal gun factory in Russia, then smuggled 4000km away crossing 14 countries, getting past the US border check ups and then distributed in each state, with none knowing?
    Just in regards of trade ways...
    You don't have to cross any countries borders to send goods from Russia to the USA. You use freight ships and containers to send goods from over there. There's only 2 controls... The Russian harbor, and the US Harbor.

  5. #925
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    Just in regards of trade ways...
    You don't have to cross any countries borders to send goods from Russia to the USA. You use freight ships and containers to send goods from over there. There's only 2 controls... The Russian harbor, and the US Harbor.
    And it's very worth it when you can easy turn legal weapons into ilegal ones cheaper in the country, right? Might be the case of some "imported" high-tech guns but the vast majority are just for shoot to kill. So the correlation of legal weapons turned ilegal is more applicable then mass weapons being smuggled into US. And in regards to smuggled, it's the other way arround as in from US it gets smuggled to Mexic, Canada...

  6. #926
    "They're thinking about banning toy guns and they're going to keep the fucking real ones."

    ~ George Carlin

  7. #927
    Quote Originally Posted by Grokan View Post
    You can't really compare weapons in video games to real cars.
    you can since its part of our "gun culture" and one of the reasons people like to point too as being part of why kids kill.
    i agree you cant really compare weapons in video games to real cars, because real cars when miss used become lethal weapons that do kill.
    i cant see how people cant see that part when making the comparison between guns and cars. design intent shouldn't render the comparison moot.

  8. #928
    Titan Wildtree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    "They're thinking about banning toy guns and they're going to keep the fucking real ones."

    ~ George Carlin
    Gotta love him.... Greatest comedian there ever was.

    This one fits the thread:


    ---------- Post added 2012-12-26 at 12:44 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by naturestorm View Post
    And it's very worth it when you can easy turn legal weapons into ilegal ones cheaper in the country, right? Might be the case of some "imported" high-tech guns but the vast majority are just for shoot to kill. So the correlation of legal weapons turned ilegal is more applicable then mass weapons being smuggled into US. And in regards to smuggled, it's the other way arround as in from US it gets smuggled to Mexic, Canada...
    I was just pointing out that you kind of used the wrong trade route. Intercontinental trade between US and Russia doesn't need to involve other countries borders. The ships can go straight through from one to the next. The goods inside the containers aren't always what the papers state that come with the containers.
    5 million pampers can very well be 500.000 guns... or something else. That's how smuggle nowadays works on a bigger scale.

  9. #929
    Immortal Clockwork Pinkie's Avatar
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    All it'll do is add to the body count, it's just one more thing the suspect will plan around. One cop will stop them, when they most likely want to take someone with them before taking themselves out?


  10. #930
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tombstoner139 View Post
    you can since its part of our "gun culture" and one of the reasons people like to point too as being part of why kids kill.
    i agree you cant really compare weapons in video games to real cars, because real cars when miss used become lethal weapons that do kill.
    i cant see how people cant see that part when making the comparison between guns and cars. design intent shouldn't render the comparison moot.
    I encounter real cars every day. I don't encounter real guns every day.

  11. #931
    Quote Originally Posted by tombstoner139 View Post
    If you cant see the similarities between misusing a car vs. a gun "you're both unqualified to discuss this matter and to own a" car.

    guns are a common place part of life... just not for you. i see guns all the time.. typical when i see a police officer on payroll.
    Fire arms are all over the place in planet sides 2 and counter strike, call of duty. so yea guns are a part of everyday life.
    You are also unqualified to discuss this. Guns are not a part of every day life. You get in a car and drive to work everyday, do you shoot your gun every day? If thats part of your every day life, you're part of the problem.

    Car accidents aren't a "misuse" of a car, it's an accepted risk. No one accepts the risk that the gun you bought to protect your home is going to be used to shoot you in the face, and then slaughter an elementary school.

  12. #932
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    Just in regards of trade ways...
    You don't have to cross any countries borders to send goods from Russia to the USA. You use freight ships and containers to send goods from over there. There's only 2 controls... The Russian harbor, and the US Harbor.
    With the amount of drugs that's smuggled into the USA every day, why would it even be debated how guns come in?

    Not that all the gunmakers in central/south america would send guns to places illegally or anything, I'm sure they're all nice happy folks that love everybody.

  13. #933
    Quote Originally Posted by Svifnymr View Post
    With the amount of drugs that's smuggled into the USA every day, why would it even be debated how guns come in?

    Not that all the gunmakers in central/south america would send guns to places illegally or anything, I'm sure they're all nice happy folks that love everybody.
    On gun smuggling it's the other way arround as for drugs. Drugs are smuggled into US since the vast majority are made outside while guns are smuggled from US in trade for the drugs for just sold for the ones making the drugs. Just read about the US border with Mexic and you get the idea.

    Since its way easy and cheap to get a an US ex-legal gun that has been sold/stolen then to import it from outside. Only high end stuff gets imported or brands/types of guns that are rare in US and are manufactured abroad.

    And in comparison to the drugs it's not even worth smuggling regular guns into US as it's high space low price ratio gets easy toped by other "products". This even includes human trafficking as more lucrative then gun trafficking with abroad weapons.

    So you could ignore the very very high number of legal guns present in US and choose to belive that ilegal weapons are introduced into US from abroad and that every gun owner/gun shop/manufacturer/merchant in US is a very responsible person but the fact remains that then you can't explain the number if ilegal guns.
    Last edited by naturestorm; 2012-12-27 at 01:33 PM.

  14. #934
    Quote Originally Posted by naturestorm View Post
    On gun smuggling it's the other way arround as for drugs. Drugs are smuggled into US since the vast majority are made outside while guns are smuggled from US in trade for the drugs for just sold for the ones making the drugs. Just read about the US border with Mexic and you get the idea.
    I had posted it to the other thread, but heres my response to that;
    "They had mentioned the "90% of mexican cartel guns are from the USA" thing, but it's not actually so solid as all that.
    Mexican's siezed 30,000 guns, they asked ATF to track 7200 of them, ATF could only track 4,000 and of that 4,000, 87% (3500) were from the USA.

    So, of the 30,000 total, 11% or thereabouts were actually "from the USA legal market". This was 2008 numbers, which was around the Fast & Furious time where ATF was putting guns out there to get smuggled into Mexico to try to follow them, so not sure how that works for things either.

    Since its way easy and cheap to get a an US ex-legal gun that has been sold/stolen then to import it from outside. Only high end stuff gets imported or brands/types of guns that are rare in US and are manufactured abroad.

    And in comparison to the drugs it's not even worth smuggling regular guns into US as it's high space low price ratio gets easy toped by other "products". This even includes human trafficking as more lucrative then gun trafficking with abroad weapons.
    For some guns, I think it's just what the drug runners have on hand, like handguns and such. For machineguns though, it's much easier to get them in south america than here. Yeah, there are ways to get an AK47 variant, go to a machine shop and with the right parts and knowledge and blah blah blah, but it's easier to just get them in a country where you own the local government.

    So you could ignore the very very high number of legal guns present in US and choose to belive that ilegal weapons are introduced into US from abroad and that every gun owner/gun shop/manufacturer/merchant in US is a very responsible person but the fact remains that then you can't explain the number if ilegal guns.
    I'd say there's a lot of both, really. You painted a picture of a one-way trade though, and our border isn't very well controlled. I doubt most gangs are getting guns smuggled in, but I also doubt they're exporting them.

  15. #935
    The guy who blasted the nra in the interview has his kids in a school that already has armed guards. Yet he is against it? Ya, thats not political at all.

  16. #936
    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    The guy who blasted the nra in the interview has his kids in a school that already has armed guards. Yet he is against it? Ya, thats not political at all.
    Wait so parents have to support everything their child's school does or they're hypocrites? How does that one work?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  17. #937
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Wait so parents have to support everything their child's school does or they're hypocrites? How does that one work?
    No guns in school, its wrong!!!! Brb, dropping my kids off at a private school with guns.

    Get it?

  18. #938
    Quote Originally Posted by chadwix View Post
    No guns in school, its wrong!!!! Brb, dropping my kids off at a private school with guns.

    Get it?
    Or maybe he decided that getting them in that education was worth compromising.

    When you're an adult with responsibilities you'll have to make compromises on ideology.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  19. #939
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    I'm still waiting for all of the Republicans who said they would leave the country if Obama won to make good on their promise. Because, you know, they're being political otherwise, right?

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