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  1. #1

    13 bosses... but the raid is still a glorified straight line

    I know you'll end up killing every boss anyway but am I the only person who most like instances like Ulduar and Icecrown because they felt in some way like actual buildings? Like we had some choice about where we were going, even if we'd end up visiting everywhere eventually?
    Mogu-Shan Vaults and Heart of Fear are full of sealed doors you can't open and give the illusion of being big places but end up sending you on a linear path.
    I'm not even going to comment on Terrace.

    From what I can see of the maps on the front page, the new raid is exactly the same. There are stairs and bends, but only one path through and no options.
    I'll still play it and no doubt I'll enjoy it, but I wish they could have used a bit more imagination in their layout!

  2. #2
    Dreadlord Lazuli's Avatar
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    For sure, I always love big layouts more like dungeon crawling but raid sized.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    I know you'll end up killing every boss anyway but am I the only person who most like instances like Ulduar and Icecrown because they felt in some way like actual buildings? Like we had some choice about where we were going, even if we'd end up visiting everywhere eventually?
    Mogu-Shan Vaults and Heart of Fear are full of sealed doors you can't open and give the illusion of being big places but end up sending you on a linear path.
    I'm not even going to comment on Terrace.

    From what I can see of the maps on the front page, the new raid is exactly the same. There are stairs and bends, but only one path through and no options.
    I'll still play it and no doubt I'll enjoy it, but I wish they could have used a bit more imagination in their layout!
    What is the point. You will have two things happen. First, for normal raiders, they will read what the pros are doing and use the same path. It will very quickly be determine what the most efficient path is, and that is what everyone will do. The other issue is LFR... good luck getting two tanks with different opinions on which way to go.

  4. #4
    In ICC and Ulduar you really had no choice. If you were going to fight the end boss, which who in their right mind doesn't attempt to kill the end boss, you had to fight every other boss anyway as well.

  5. #5
    I guess people will always find something to complain about...
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradewind View Post
    Funny story, my last gf was a lot younger than me, she kept calling me a pedophile. I was like "lol that's a big word for a 6 year old."
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  6. #6
    Stood in the Fire Hattai's Avatar
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    Design of the place is strategically sound given it's the bastion of the greatest known Mogu king. Open areas like Ulduar let the enemy entrench themselves too easily, forcing them into a bottleneck with a linear path makes attacking a fortification that much harder.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by phillipisawarlock View Post
    I guess people will always find something to complain about...
    Always dude, always. which is funny cuase we havent actually seen the damn place yet >.>

  8. #8
    Dreadlord Lazuli's Avatar
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    It's not really a complaint just an opinion, you guys are just too fucking doom and gloom about everything.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by phillipisawarlock View Post
    I guess people will always find something to complain about...
    Doesen't it just make you want to complain about the complaining people!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazuli View Post
    It's not really a complaint just an opinion, you guys are just too fucking doom and gloom about everything.
    Yeah this, I even said I'm still definitely going to play and raid and almost certainly enjoy it, if the bosses are to the standard of the current tier.
    It's just not as excellent as it possibly could be.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Azrile View Post
    What is the point. You will have two things happen. First, for normal raiders, they will read what the pros are doing and use the same path. It will very quickly be determine what the most efficient path is, and that is what everyone will do. The other issue is LFR... good luck getting two tanks with different opinions on which way to go.

    It's not about taking efficient routes. It's about stepping into the raid and being amazed at the scope of the instance. Making them linear takes away some of the awe factor.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Waifu View Post
    Doesen't it just make you want to complain about the complaining people!
    no it makes me want to slap the moaning off their face...but internet doesn't have that feature........yet.

  13. #13
    To be fair ICC was just a straight line that eventually led to a big circle with 3 branching straight lines to choose from.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by phillipisawarlock View Post
    I guess people will always find something to complain about...
    Of course, and I hope they never stop.
    Unsatisfaction is the mother of creativity and change, keeping devs on their toes and reaching out to them to create more and better.

    Now, on topic, I would love more raids the size of karazan, maybe because i started raiding when raids needed multiple days and several hours to clear, but to me, they were far more satisfying than clearing it all in a couple of hours and not much to explore.

    Then again, this is the normal greeks vs romans type of discussion, some will see no point in doing something that wont be used that much, or forgotten, others see the need to have details for something to feel alive and engaging, im the later.
    Last edited by Kurioxan; 2012-12-22 at 03:10 AM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kurioxan View Post
    Of course, and I hope they never stop.
    Unsatisfaction is the mother of creativity and change, keeping devs on their toes and reaching out to them to create more and better.
    We haven't even seen the inside of the instance yet. There is nothing to complain yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradewind View Post
    Funny story, my last gf was a lot younger than me, she kept calling me a pedophile. I was like "lol that's a big word for a 6 year old."
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    I asked my dog how it likes to be fucked and it said, "Ruff."

  16. #16
    I actually prefer non-linear structures and paths, both in dungeons and in raids. Blackrock Depths as a dungeon, and Ulduar\Icecrown has raids are examples, where you have a non-linear layout, with choice in regards of path, boss order, and so on, so forth. Things now are always straight lines, or instead of calling them dungeons, we can start calling them... corridors.

    It's actually disappointing, but as long as the raid encounters are fun, it really is just a secondary issue, but an issue nonetheless. People can defend Blizzard on it all they want, but it remains a fact that it's all plain and linear. Just compare ICC|Ulduar|Black Temple structure to others like Terrace\ToC\Mogu'Shan. Hell, even Tempest Keep as small as it was, had a better structure...

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by phillipisawarlock View Post
    We haven't even seen the inside of the instance yet. There is nothing to complain yet.
    We haven't, but we've seen that it's a straight line.
    The maps are on the front page.

  18. #18
    High Overlord NerdsRSexi2's Avatar
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    If you actually inspect the maps.... There are some VERY clear rooms. Meaning that its one boss.... that you have to go out of your way to get to. Similar to say... Stone Council or Algalon. And As everyone else has said... Ulduar was... for the most part a straight line. Sure if you were having trouble with Freya or Hodir.. you could go smack around Thorim for a bit. ICC was the exact same way. Plague wing giving you grief? Try blood wing.

    What it looks like to me is something similar to that model... Where you give a boss a try for a while.. can't figure it out for the life of you... you try something else. Blizzard can't please everyone. It's blantantly obvious. What people need to do is take what they get and be happy with it. I personally, and super excited for this Patch. But then again I'm a lore nerd.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    We haven't, but we've seen that it's a straight line.
    The maps are on the front page.
    How do you know that? how do you know is not a sections maps? look at the map for the raid island, the freaking island IS HUGE and theres a section which is a complex of caves, then look at the pic that has that ''cave'' feel. Please atleast wait til you step inside to actually make statement.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeraxis View Post
    In ICC and Ulduar you really had no choice. If you were going to fight the end boss, which who in their right mind doesn't attempt to kill the end boss, you had to fight every other boss anyway as well.
    You didn't have to do every boss to fight Yogg in Ulduar. Some bosses were optional. You didn't need to do Razorscale, Ignis, Iron Council or Algalon at all to kill Yogg (I think Auriya was also optional but am not 100% sure).

    In Ulduar you also had choice in what order you did things in (even the bosses that weren't otional if you wanted to kill the end boss). This would be nice in a guild like mine because some fights require 2 healers and some require 3 but my guild often only has 2 healers online.... So when we only have 2 healers available we can't raid or we have to skip a heroic boss and do it on normal. If we had options about the order we killed bosses in we could just do all the 2 heal bosses if we only have 2 healers available and then do the 3 heal bosses later in the week when all our healers are available.

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