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  1. #21
    Rotation feels really flat now. I am not sure if this is going to be a buff. I think it will either make no changes for good players or even be a nerf. I really like the way you can stack tfb and release it within a CS window for huge damage. Most people, especially non warrior players, dont know this, but arms is really complex if you want to "master" it right now and you can do so much to improve your dps (although is just a little gain). But after the patch I think worse players can pull nearly the exact same dps as good arms players.

    What bugs me most is that you just cant get everything released in just 1 CS window. There is no reason to pool 120 rage into a CS window with 5.2. If they would increase the debuff from CS by 2-3 seconds it would be great.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenEnergy View Post
    What bugs me most is that you just cant get everything released in just 1 CS window.
    Whut?
    Slam = 30 rage
    4 * Slam = 120 rage

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Senen View Post
    Whut?
    Slam = 30 rage
    4 * Slam = 120 rage
    Yeah, you can do that, but then you are not keeping the cooldown on Mortal Strike, which you also want to fill in, because of the 2piece set bonus.

  4. #24
    Herald of the Titans Lovestar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wazooty View Post
    The fact that your order changes when CS is up, assuming the above is correct, is enough to make it interesting for me....
    It's really nothing special and is pretty much standard play for Warrior at this point.

    Accumulate Rage outside cooldowns -> Spend Rage inside cooldowns

    OP allows you to avoid spending Rage, so you use that outside CSmash. Slam dumps Rage, but hits a little harder, so you empty with that inside CSmash.

    This probably isn't finished yet.

  5. #25
    It doesn't mean your rotation will be MS-OP-OP, it just means that every 1 MS you will use 2 OP's eventually.

    You could go
    MS - CS - OP - Slam - MS - OP - OP - OP
    You will change depending on rage and abilities you need to fit in.

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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by clampy View Post
    It doesn't mean your rotation will be MS-OP-OP, it just means that every 1 MS you will use 2 OP's eventually.

    You could go
    MS - CS - OP - Slam - MS - OP - OP - OP
    You will change depending on rage and abilities you need to fit in.
    Why would you prioritize op over slam if CS is up, or vice versa?

    It seem to make sense that when CS is down you'd be spending rage that would otherwise cap you on HS rather than slam, unless theres a free gcd of course.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenEnergy View Post
    Yeah, you can do that, but then you are not keeping the cooldown on Mortal Strike, which you also want to fill in, because of the 2piece set bonus.
    Heroic Strike, then?
    During a cs debuff you can use 240 Rage (4 Slam, 4 HS) if you're really willing to. Ofc, you won't do it. But don't complain that you can't dump your rage during cs. ^^

  8. #28
    Herald of the Titans Lovestar's Avatar
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    You could fit all 240 Rage in if you pooled right and had a pocket healer assigned and switched to Zerker and stood in some really toasty fire. :D

    Slightly less toasty fire if it's a Deadly Calm CSmash!

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Senen View Post
    Whut?
    Slam = 30 rage
    4 * Slam = 120 rage
    Er, you can only fit 3 GCDs inside CS. The only way you'll spend 120 Rage is if you use 3 Slams and a HS.

    Yeah, the rotation is going to be a lot more predictable, but it's also going to be a lot more sustained. Since Storm Bolt may possibly be better than Bloodbath, we may be either pooling more Rage inside CS through either Slams or Heroic Strikes.

    I'd like it this way better than the old Taste for Blood simply because we had to use fillers like Heroic Throw or Battle Shout or Impending Victory, which frankly we never should be doing but end up doing anyway, whenever we didn't have Rage because of back to back Slams.

    All these tricks like pooling TFB stacks to put a HS inside a CS window didn't make a great DPS increase. This change isn't probably going to increase the skillcap, but removes a lot of RNG and leads to sustained damage done.

    Also, this is a buff for Execute phase as well. No Rage? Use 2 Overpowers, you'll easily be able to Execute every MS cycle, or use a CS or a Stormbolt, and at the worst scenario, Battle Shout or Impending Victory. At least we won't be using those kind of fillers a lot now, which is a DPS boost.
    Last edited by Kaljurei; 2012-12-22 at 07:46 PM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaljurei View Post
    Er, you can only fit 3 GCDs inside CS. The only way you'll spend 120 Rage is if you use 3 Slams and a HS.
    No you can fit in 4. Dont know if this is because of haste, but I just tried it on live servers. I could do CS->MS->OP->OP->Slam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Senen View Post
    Heroic Strike, then?
    During a cs debuff you can use 240 Rage (4 Slam, 4 HS) if you're really willing to. Ofc, you won't do it. But don't complain that you can't dump your rage during cs. ^^
    Its about being useful to do so. YOU CAN do it. But you will lose DPS if you do so and that is something that you dont want to do.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaljurei View Post
    Er, you can only fit 3 GCDs inside CS. The only way you'll spend 120 Rage is if you use 3 Slams and a HS.
    Somepony has a lot to learn about warrior's gameplay.
    4-gcd cs were already possible in Cataclysm (but trickier since Slam was a cast not an instant spell).
    Here's an old video of Landsoul explaining how it works: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OWoxXTB7i4#t=31s

    TL;DR: You can fit 4 GCDs inside CS. Learn your facts.
    Last edited by Senen; 2012-12-22 at 07:59 PM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Wazooty View Post
    Why would you prioritize op over slam if CS is up, or vice versa?

    It seem to make sense that when CS is down you'd be spending rage that would otherwise cap you on HS rather than slam, unless theres a free gcd of course.
    My point is its fluid and rage dependent.
    You won't always have enough rage to use slam immediately (hence the OP there) and you will get procs of CS which will 'mix up' your rotation. You won't want to wait for full rage to use your CS proc because its CD is too short and it will be a waste of damage.

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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by clampy View Post
    You won't want to wait for full rage to use your CS proc because its CD is too short and it will be a waste of damage.
    Right. But you can still pool Rage by avoiding Slam until you get the right combo of ~120 Rage + SDeath proc, then go dumping.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Wazooty View Post
    Would be cool if when CS was up your GCD was 1 sec or something. it would give you windows of increased speed that would make it more interesting without adding more buttons.
    That would make every CS + Slam (till rage ends) combos just brutal. Ohhhhh maaaaan, I want that!

  15. #35
    should have put a 1 sec GCD on OP while at it.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Senen View Post
    Somepony has a lot to learn about warrior's gameplay.
    4-gcd cs were already possible in Cataclysm (but trickier since Slam was a cast not an instant spell).
    Here's an old video of Landsoul explaining how it works: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OWoxXTB7i4#t=31s

    TL;DR: You can fit 4 GCDs inside CS. Learn your facts.
    Fine. I guess you can do that then.

    Still doesn't make any sense to fit in 4 Slams inside a CS, unless you have no 2pc bonus.

    Right. But you can still pool Rage by avoiding Slam until you get the right combo of ~120 Rage + SDeath proc, then go dumping.
    Sitting on a CS when it's available as Arms is a loss of DPS. Sure SD procs aren't really reliable, but that's that.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wazooty View Post
    Why would you prioritize op over slam if CS is up, or vice versa?

    It seem to make sense that when CS is down you'd be spending rage that would otherwise cap you on HS rather than slam, unless theres a free gcd of course.
    Would be nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by cexspa View Post
    should have put a 1 sec GCD on OP while at it.
    Is probably more realistic though.
    Quote Originally Posted by kbarh View Post
    may i suggest you check out wowwiki or any similar site, it's Grom that orders the murder of Cairne

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaljurei View Post
    Sitting on a CS when it's available as Arms is a loss of DPS. Sure SD procs aren't really reliable, but that's that.
    I'm not saying sit on CSmash (unless the debuff is still running, of course).

    I'm saying sit on Rage until you can empty an entire bar during a CSmash window, like Fury tries to do. Use OP to keep you busy in-between full Rage bars, and after getting near-full, use controlled Slams to keep from capping out while you wait for the next SDeath proc.

    I guess this is just a fancy way of saying "Do everything possible to not Slam if CSmash isn't running". It's just a much more plausible goal with OP becoming so plentiful and predictable.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Lovestar View Post
    Right. But you can still pool Rage by avoiding Slam until you get the right combo of ~120 Rage + SDeath proc, then go dumping.
    What are you meant to do in between Mortal Strikes? 2 Over power and 2 empty GCD's? You don't have that many filler abilities to fill up the gaps while you are pooling rage, at some point you will have to use overpower.

    I understand your point completely, but its just not feasible to assume we are going to be able to be high enough rage to exclusively use slam all the time with every CS, which means you have to use overpower at least once per MS cycle (but you have to keep up with the proc).

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  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by clampy View Post
    What are you meant to do in between Mortal Strikes? 2 Over power and 2 empty GCD's? You don't have that many filler abilities to fill up the gaps while you are pooling rage, at some point you will have to use overpower.

    I understand your point completely, but its just not feasible to assume we are going to be able to be high enough rage to exclusively use slam all the time with every CS, which means you have to use overpower at least once per MS cycle (but you have to keep up with the proc).
    There are 3 gcds in between mortal strikes. Then there's CS, DR, HT, IV, BS and on top of that CS procs quite a bit too. With that said, the randomness of CS makes it really awkward to pool rage that way. Maybe it just needs a while to get used to.
    The only thing i'm not sure of is how quickly we can build up rage for that next CS dump and ho many of those optimal dumps can we get during the duration of a fight.
    Last edited by OscaR; 2012-12-23 at 04:08 AM.

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