Patch 5.2 PTR Mage Changes

[Methnor]

i wonder if you can channel invocation (3s channel) with icy floes??? O.o

No, Invocation won't change the fact that the BASE cast time will be higher than the 4 seconds required for Ice Floes.

[Soulstrike]

No, Invocation won't change the fact that the BASE cast time will be higher than the 4 seconds required for Ice Floes.

thought so, same thing applied to priest's holy fire glyphed consuming borrow time :/

[Deleted]

For the Deep Freeze change, it's interesting because:

1. All damage benefit from Shatter when cast on a Deep Freezed target.
2. FoF-IL & Bf-FFB won't break DF.

It need to be tested when the PTR go live.

This will change the game-play in an interesting fashion: keep the control or do damage.
It's the return to the main purpose of Deep Freeze : control.

[mrgreenthump]

For the Deep Freeze change, it's interesting because:

1. All damage benefit from Shatter when cast on a Deep Freezed target.
2. FoF-IL & Bf-FFB won't break DF.

It need to be tested when the PTR go live.

This will change the game-play in an interesting fashion: keep the control or do damage.
It's the return to the main purpose of Deep Freeze : control.

Shatter
Doubles the critical strike chance of all your spells against frozen targets plus an additional 50%.

Brain Freeze
The Brain Freeze effect causes your next Frostfire Bolt to be instant cast, cost no mana, and act as if your target were frozen for 15 sec.

Fingers of Frost
The Fingers of Frost effect causes your next Ice Lance or Deep Freeze to act as if your target were frozen, and increases Ice Lance damage by 25% for 15 sec.

Well the wording and how FoF has worked before is that the icelance is just counted so that the target is frozen, but it still applies to shatter and same goes with Brain Freeze. So unless they change FoF or BF, the only real way is to time it so that your bomb will explode at the same time as your frostbolt or ffb hardcast lands and use an instant to max damage.

[Imnick]

While I appreciate your optimisin Nathyiel, I believe it's very likely to be "any spell that can trigger shatter" not "any spell that does trigger shatter" :P

[Deleted]

This is why I have say that it need to be tested.
I also say earlier that this change seem to be unfinished, like if they have keep the better for the PTR open.

But with this change, they resolve the "burst" problem in PvP : only one (or two) will be shatter.
Maybe, they will have to boost some damage a little. I don't now and won't do a lot of serious PvP actually.

[mrgreenthump]

This is why I have say that it need to be tested.
I also say earlier that this change seem to be unfinished, like if they have keep the better for the PTR open.

But with this change, they resolve the "burst" problem in PvP : only one (or two) will be shatter.
Maybe, they will have to boost some damage a little. I don't now and won't do a lot of serious PvP actually.

I guess the removal of frostbolt from the ramp up mechanic and buffing it by a bit was just that. Just don't know if that is enough. But generally speaking this "nerf" to Deep Freeze, has an impact on mage game play.. It will prolly end up being used as a defensive tool in more cases.

[Zathrendar]

My eyes weep at the Deep Freeze nerf. They have wrecked frost and its playstyle. Now it's just like the other specs, with blue pixels.

[Sidewinder]

I may be misunderstanding the notes but it says Inferno Blast is spreading dmg to 3 targets from 2.. and GLYPH of Inferno Blast spreads it to 1 additional.. so a total of 4 Targets.. thats a buff not a nerf. Hopefully that makes up a little bit of the LB spread nerf.

[Zathrendar]

I like the idea of Silence being a tool for only a few classes. You still have an interrupt.

Why would mages, who master the arcane, be able to interrupt but not silence? I'd rather have the silence, screw the interrupt. Same goes for felhunters.

[Deleted]

Haven't you noticed they have no idea how to balance this game and are throwing !@#$ all over the place patch after patch? I stopped trying to figure out what Blizzard wants with their changes long ago.

[Elegiac]

Haven't you noticed they have no idea how to balance this game and are throwing !@#$ all over the place patch after patch? I stopped trying to figure out what Blizzard wants with their changes long ago.

I'm starting to agree with this, personally. Mainly because of the issue of mana.

Blizzard is clearly trying to move away from the model of mana management for DPS and tanks, by either giving them such high regeneration that mana doesn't become a problem (Enhancement Shamans), or giving them other resources to manage (Holy Power, Lunar/Solar Power, etc.)

This isn't the case for mages, and it is all because of one spec; Arcane. A whole ream of issues could be resolved by giving Arcane a specific resource to manage instead of mana.

TLDR: Mana is obsolete. Evocation needs to be gotten rid of, and the 90 talents need to focus on their damage components.

[Shangalar]

Give them some tiny credit, their tests against all other spells/classes in the game are far more extensive than our own personal experiences. I'm not saying the changes they're suggesting are always good or make sense, but their testing is definitely superior to our own.

I also agree with Didactic about the need to decouple mana from 90 talents.

[Zathrendar]

Well I am not satisfied by how they made Scorch and Living Bomb mainstream talents, either. They belong to fire. With warlocks they gave each spec more distinctive casting styles, rather than homogeneising them. I like specs to actually be specialisations, and for mages that depends on the element they favour.

[Elegiac]

Well I am not satisfied by how they made Scorch and Living Bomb mainstream talents, either. They belong to fire. With warlocks they gave each spec more distinctive casting styles, rather than homogeneising them. I like specs to actually be specialisations, and for mages that depends on the element they favour.

^^^^^^^^

It's annoying, really. I think the Bomb talents should just be modifications to spec-specific bomb spells.

[Alvito]

Well I am not satisfied by how they made Scorch and Living Bomb mainstream talents, either. They belong to fire. With warlocks they gave each spec more distinctive casting styles, rather than homogeneising them. I like specs to actually be specialisations, and for mages that depends on the element they favour.

It does feel more and more like mages are being blurred into 1 spec. They had to revamp things, the way it is being done is quickly becoming less and less for me.

[mrgreenthump]

^^^^^^^^

It's annoying, really. I think the Bomb talents should just be modifications to spec-specific bomb spells.

I think that might have been the initial design, but then some from their closed testing gave em feedback that they didnt like 1 or the other being locked with 1 spell..

[Zathrendar]

Yes, and perhaps taking a leaf out of the Algalon raid for Nether Tempest. Its current animation is horrid.

Re arcane, IMO it was the spec that most needed an overhaul, even more than the lock specs. It remains a gimmicky spec, and I cannot for the life of me understand the move to 6 stacks. The stacks were never the issue! If they were, it was in the direction of reducing mobility, i.e. they were a drag on the spec. I like how they re-designed the charges to work. Frost also has issues related to its binary performance due to Shatter, and yet they extended Shatter to all 3 specs, and guess what, fire is now experiencing similar problems, which are motivating nerfs to DF.

---------- Post added 2012-12-24 at 11:48 AM ----------

I think that might have been the initial design, but then some from their closed testing gave em feedback that they didnt like 1 or the other being locked with 1 spell..

I'd get that if it were a utility spell. Frost Bomb sort of is, and never should have been. I liked Frostfire Orb, both conceptually and mechanically. I am sad that they removed that spell to give us three differently colored bomb spells. I am happy with the bombs, but I'd have preferred for the utility talents to be the Orb spell. Then they could've given us a Vortex variant, say, based on arcane, and something similar to the old Blast Wave as a fire variant, i.e. a spell with a knockback mechanic.

[Elegiac]

I think that might have been the initial design, but then some from their closed testing gave em feedback that they didnt like 1 or the other being locked with 1 spell..

Yes? Well their closed testing is bullshit anyway.

There are probably more people that dislike the having to cast out of school spells than people who dislike 'being locked to one spell'.

[Deleted]

If the mage class is left with only one spec and it goes like this: Mage Blast (spammable nuke), Mage Bomb (DoT), Mage BigBlast (proc spell), Mage +%Damage Talent (horrible to keep uptime on), will anything actually change? We've lost our flavor and identity, mechanic wise we're dull. Arcane's idea of mana management was bad from the start, Fire needs something more than just RNG and scaling nerfs every expansion, Arcane needs to be reworked from the ground and Frost needs a lot of work as well, mainly because pvp. Having only burst damage and no damage outside Deep is just... I don't know what internal testing they have, but 5.1 and 5.2 so far prove that they have no real idea, or desire to change things for the better.