Page 22 of 75 FirstFirst ...
12
20
21
22
23
24
32
72
... LastLast
  1. #421
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Blorch - Home of the Slaughtering Rat People
    Posts
    15,954
    Quote Originally Posted by Imnick View Post
    I will be if they give the Elemental an ability back, but most people don't really like me to count because I'm pretty satisfied with Mages in general anyway.
    True story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sw1tch View Post
    The fact of the matter is that without the Elemental frost is much less compelling (adds a visual, interactive with Water Jet/Freeze) . There's nothing more to say. You cannot argue against that, and any attempts at compelling changes will not happen over the course of patches, so talking about that point would be moot. And we are actually slightly unique from warlocks and hunters in the way that our mastery affects pet damage, and that our class doesn't have access to general pet, only one spec does.
    You mean like BM and Demonology Mastery?
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    You mean like BM and Demonology Mastery?
    It wasn't worded in the best way but I think he meant that mages are different than hunters and warlocks because they have a mastery that affects pet damage, EVEN THOUGH only one out of three specs even control a pet. Though it's kind of weird to say still. It's kind of the same thing as saying "we are unique from other classes because we can cast frostbolt".

  3. #423
    I'd wish they would come up with a glyph similar to GoSac for mages so that way people who do not like to use the water elemental, but love casting icy spells can have that option of having it as a CD or removed entirely. The devs made the perma-elemental a glyph back in ICC, so, why can't they do that now?

  4. #424
    Warchief Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    The Frozen North
    Posts
    2,040
    Quote Originally Posted by crysie View Post
    I'd wish they would come up with a glyph similar to GoSac for mages so that way people who do not like to use the water elemental, but love casting icy spells can have that option of having it as a CD or removed entirely. The devs made the perma-elemental a glyph back in ICC, so, why can't they do that now?
    Because other classes would cry if they added ~10% more damage to us.

  5. #425
    I really hope we get water jet. Frost rotation is looking brain dead boring without something.

  6. #426
    glad to hear that invocation's cast time is being reduced (b/c if not then its just the dumbest thing ever, 6 sec's of stand still cast for dps pfftt.) I'll take the 10% nerf for that. 3 sec's is fast when you are used to 6.

  7. #427
    Quote Originally Posted by dodonpachi View Post
    I really hope we get water jet. Frost rotation is looking brain dead boring without something.
    Agreed. If Freeze remains the same and Water Jet isn't implemented, we have (as some have put it) a "DoT with legs". It will be mindbogglingly stupid. They may as well give us a spell that just passively does the WE's dps on your current target.

    If you asked me before the 3% FoF increase, I would have given you a speech about how it was a guaranteed that Water Jet was coming. Now, I'm not so sure. Blizzard just doesn't throw up random increases without a goal in mind.

  8. #428
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    France
    Posts
    1,168
    Yop, for those who think that we will have a DoT on bubble. You forget that the change to freeze is only against Immune target (Boss).

    Yes freeze will still be here for : QJ, leveling, boss with add, trash, arena, BG, world pvp and killing warlock.

    I would have prefer it to work again versus boss, with a glyph to remove reticule.
    I would have prefer Water jet.
    I would have prefer they return a damaging deep freeze as a WE spell.

    They remove Freeze from our rotation against Boss. It's not the end of the world. They can do better.
    And for those who want to remove our Water Elemental : go play Warlock and sacrifice your pet.
    The answers is 42
    -------------------------
    Nathyiel, TempteÐ (sargeras-EU) - @Nathyiel

  9. #429
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Blorch - Home of the Slaughtering Rat People
    Posts
    15,954
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathyiel View Post
    And for those who want to remove our Water Elemental : go play Warlock and sacrifice your pet.
    The irony is palpable, considering Frost never had a perma-pet prior to Wrath.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  10. #430
    Didactic you make that sound like it was yesterday. That was over two expansions ago. It's well integrated into our spec identity now, it isn't going anywhere (which is why we need to be vocal about making it an interesting part of that identity. I.E. Give us water jet.)

  11. #431
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    The irony is palpable, considering Frost never had a perma-pet prior to Wrath.
    Especially considering that nobody played Frost or would have liked to prior to Wrath either

    Frostbolt Frostbolt Frostbolt Frostbolt Frostbolt Frostbolt Frostbolt
    Evidently pre-Wrath was when Blizzard had the best handle on Frost's spec identity and how it should be played though

  12. #432
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    (USA) Florida
    Posts
    7,119
    Quote Originally Posted by Empath View Post
    It wasn't worded in the best way but I think he meant that mages are different than hunters and warlocks because they have a mastery that affects pet damage, EVEN THOUGH only one out of three specs even control a pet. Though it's kind of weird to say still. It's kind of the same thing as saying "we are unique from other classes because we can cast frostbolt".
    Frostburn: Increases damage against frozen targets and WATER ELEMENTAL'S WATERBOLT by X%.

    Yeah, our mastery clearly doesn't affect our pet damage.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-19 at 09:08 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sw1tch View Post
    Didactic you make that sound like it was yesterday. That was over two expansions ago. It's well integrated into our spec identity now, it isn't going anywhere (which is why we need to be vocal about making it an interesting part of that identity. I.E. Give us water jet.)
    Yet now it's only good for waterbolt damage, which hits for shit, even if you mastery stack (which I have no idea why you would want to because it scales horribly in PvE)

    Retired Veteran Raider: [T14] 10/16H, [T15] 12/13H, [T16] 7/14H
    BTag: Polarthief#1411 (send me a PM or something; I remove randoms w/o notice)

  13. #433
    Warchief Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    The Frozen North
    Posts
    2,040
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    Yet now it's only good for waterbolt damage, which hits for shit
    And yet it's still ~10% of our damage. Are you really going to bring up how hard individual spells hit as an argument for use? Alright guys, never using NT again, it only hits for 5k.

    We've got to be the only spec asking for more of our damage to be based on our pet.

  14. #434
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    (USA) Florida
    Posts
    7,119
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post
    And yet it's still ~10% of our damage. Are you really going to bring up how hard individual spells hit as an argument for use? Alright guys, never using NT again, it only hits for 5k.

    We've got to be the only spec asking for more of our damage to be based on our pet.
    I'm just saying, with the removal of freeze, all it does is damage, whereas _EVERY_ other pet, even temporary ones, does more than just DPS.

    For instance, Fire elementals will AoE, Earth elementals will taunt, felhounds will dispel magic, hunter pets have a PLETHORA of shit, as well as a buff they bring, etc. Ours has a useless-in-raiding Freeze (after 5.2 hits, ofc) and Waterbolt

    Retired Veteran Raider: [T14] 10/16H, [T15] 12/13H, [T16] 7/14H
    BTag: Polarthief#1411 (send me a PM or something; I remove randoms w/o notice)

  15. #435
    Warchief Kuni Zyrekai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    The Frozen North
    Posts
    2,040
    But that's the thing, it's not entirely worthless. There ARE fights where you can benefit from freeze, be it from a CC standpoint or a shatter standpoint. Just like not every fight needs an AOE, or a pet tank, or a dispel, or an interrupt, or a raid buff covered many times over. Is it rarely used? Sure, but so are a lot of the pet benefits. By definition, it does do something other than DPS, just like other pets. It provides a ranged root.

    Don't get me wrong, I'd like some neat interaction with the elemental, but let's not kid ourselves. Freeze every 25 seconds isn't really engaging interaction. Water jet was horribly broken in the implementation we saw it; I'm not sure it would be able to be salvaged without realistically making it "push button, recieve proc".

  16. #436
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    (USA) Florida
    Posts
    7,119
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post
    But that's the thing, it's not entirely worthless. There ARE fights where you can benefit from freeze, be it from a CC standpoint or a shatter standpoint. Just like not every fight needs an AOE, or a pet tank, or a dispel, or an interrupt, or a raid buff covered many times over. Is it rarely used? Sure, but so are a lot of the pet benefits. By definition, it does do something other than DPS, just like other pets. It provides a ranged root.

    Don't get me wrong, I'd like some neat interaction with the elemental, but let's not kid ourselves. Freeze every 25 seconds isn't really engaging interaction. Water jet was horribly broken in the implementation we saw it; I'm not sure it would be able to be salvaged without realistically making it "push button, recieve proc".
    So scrap WJ and try again or just remove WE entirely because it's stupid and give us a ranged FN for PvP reasons. Also buff Frostbolt even higher to compensate for losing Waterbolt.

    Retired Veteran Raider: [T14] 10/16H, [T15] 12/13H, [T16] 7/14H
    BTag: Polarthief#1411 (send me a PM or something; I remove randoms w/o notice)

  17. #437
    As someone who has played frost heavily since Wrath, I will strongly despite anything that increases our frostbolts impact on Overall Damage. When it was 60%+ of our damage, dear god. I like it where it is on live, a good 30% at most. I'd honestly still prefer less. Less filler the better. Still wish deep freeze did damage. It added something to look forward to in the rotation. We need water jet (because as Dragon has said, there's no point to it from a QoL standpoint if it just casts Waterbolt. Yes I understand freeze will still be useful in some scenarios in raid content and all of them outside of it, but it's on bosses that really counts.) /rant

  18. #438
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    (USA) Florida
    Posts
    7,119
    TBH the core problem with Frost lies with it's AWFUL scaling. Piss poor Spellpower scaling, Crit isn't all that great because it only really affects two spells (IL and FFB), and our Mastery also only increases those two spells and our pet damage, in addition to being OP in PvP.

    So, what we need is an ABSOLUTE gutting of our Mastery, a huge scaling increase to spellpower, and some other reason to get Haste other than "it's the best out of our choices, because Crit and Mastery are shit"

    Retired Veteran Raider: [T14] 10/16H, [T15] 12/13H, [T16] 7/14H
    BTag: Polarthief#1411 (send me a PM or something; I remove randoms w/o notice)

  19. #439
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    The irony is palpable, considering Frost never had a perma-pet prior to Wrath.
    you beat me to bringing attention to that. how the times have changed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

  20. #440
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    (USA) Florida
    Posts
    7,119
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    The irony is palpable, considering Frost never had a perma-pet prior to Wrath.
    Not to mention Frost JUST recently became PvE Viable, and it's probably one of THE worst speccs for PvE still due to its horrible SP and Mastery scaling, low Crit cap, and GCD capping with Frost. Come 5.2, Frost will be fucked on gear. Come 5.4, Frost will be virtually unplayable because of it.

    Retired Veteran Raider: [T14] 10/16H, [T15] 12/13H, [T16] 7/14H
    BTag: Polarthief#1411 (send me a PM or something; I remove randoms w/o notice)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •