Patch 5.2 PTR Mage Changes

[Imnick]

The most ironic thing of them all is that Blizz was trying so hard to make us clear stacks with ABarr. But with the latest change to invocation, we will be clearing stacks with Evo We just keep refusing to press that ABarr button!!

Eh, all they have to do to fix that is ensure that burning to 0 mana either does less damage or has some other tangible downside over actually using your mastery and having to clear stacks.

[Deleted]

The most ironic thing of them all is that Blizz was trying so hard to make us clear stacks with ABarr. But with the latest change to invocation, we will be clearing stacks with Evo We just keep refusing to press that ABarr button!!

They just add to reverse the things: make Evoc regen less at full stack so you will have to clear it with ABarr before. No quite a good play style.

[jtmzac]

For pve at least I actually think the change to freeze is a nice qol improvement.

After spending quite a few hours wiping in lfr it is rather nice to not have to use it all the time and the change to frostbolt is just so good. Frostbolt just never felt like it did anything until now.

I have spent quite a bit of time using freeze during fights trying to work out what it works on but thats just part of learning the fights and it should get better with experience.

I am a bit concerned about wasting FoF procs as the increased proc rate and the increased randomness seems to make it hard to dump the charges quick enough especially since we still have to ramp up the frostbolt debuff to get the most damage from ice lance.

[Deleted]

In fact, the first thing to do in a fight will be to stack FB's debuff to 3 before using CD, especially Frozen Orb.
I bean to change my Alter Time rotation a little to this:
debuff = 3

1. FoFx2 + BF -> IV/AT
2. IL > FFb > IL > FB > Frozen Bomb
3. IL > FFb > IL > FB
4. Frozen Orb

With something slike that, I have gain 20k dps on my first burst phase. (130k -> 150k instant dps)

[Deleted]

Invocation regenerates more mana for Arcane mages though

yeah i got that too...and i also had it in mind while posting. the thing is, they nerf it for arcane only and then ADD another mechanic to compensate for it and dealing with the damage inbalance. so from my point of view, its the same thing as the step with "down to 4 charges and no cd on invocation".

in general, it's not about the invocation nerf for arcane (which is kinda compensated by 10%*1.25*Arcane Charges), but its the FACT that they did it.

there is no talent that is weaker if you chose frost or fire. LB/Ice Bomb both benefit the spec with same element, but e.g. there is no slow on blazing speed cuz you're a damn chilled frostmage, or no effect on ice barrier just because you constantly throw fireballs through it. there are many talents that benefit from certain specs, but afaik there's no talent that's actually weakened for a certain one. even if it's the same or more regenerated mana, if you chose invocation as your t6 talent, it will add a new mechanic to your gameplay(dropping stack), in addition to evo->invo itself. this is not the case for frost or fire, or the other both t6 talents. that's the same as if water elemental would explode when you pop up incanters ward...or not beeing able to cast combustion while in rune of power...not in terms of trololololity but in principle -.-

but there is a special case for arcane when it comes to invocation. because appearently, blizzard is not able to keep the balance otherwise. and that is basically my point. it's probably just one of the easiest solutions (yeah jumping to conclusions -.- ), i think this change is just something they have come up with earlier...and now it's beeing tested for real because time's running out and there are no other/just worse ideas left.
it just doesn't feel right.
or maybe i'm asking too much if i want a decent change for arcane. so much hate it makes one sick :>

[Rogge]

They've already said they don't want people evocating every 20 seconds so if that's what they see on the PTR they're going to change it again

Then they will have to do more changes, because with the increased mana cost, what else is invocation arcane gonna do? It will be haste stack, and burn->evo->burn->evo. Barrage will not be used at all and you'll go through the mana pool in 15-25 seconds depending on missile procs.

There is no mana management involved in this at all though, which they seem to want for arcane.

[Deleted]

arcane in ptr is quite dumb, evo each ~15-20seg, even the scorch rotation is more fun than this. Blizzard does not what the fuck is doing u_u. Using ABarr rotation keeping mana high is a lot of dps loss in comparation with the burn/evo rotation. just nonsense

[Summer]

I wonder which happens first: PTR ends or arcane gets sorted. Sort of feel that since these "solutions" to arcane are not converging in any way but more out of the field ideas get thrown in now with nearly comical results so I guess it will be the former and Blizz will just simply run out of time to fix arcane the way they want it before 5.2. God knows what it will end up as :P A rotation without ABarr, just don't see it going live, but do they have anything else?

[Milamber]

It will be haste stack, and burn->evo->burn->evo. Barrage will not be used at all and you'll go through the mana pool in 15-25 seconds depending on missile procs.
There is no mana management involved in this at all though, which they seem to want for arcane.

Mana Management might be how long you choose your burn phase to be...

[Rogge]

Mana Management might be how long you choose your burn phase to be...

But you'd need a bunch of mastery before your third blast at full mana catches up with your fourth blast (first or second simply cant). With +50% damage per stack, I just don't see it happening. Blasts with 4-stack at 10% mana will be a higher dps than a blast with 3-stack at 100%, right?

I don't see why you'd ever want to start over until you absolutely have to.

But since the current ptr version also makes you never ever want to use arcane barrage (as invocation), it wouldn't be surprising to see changes before it goes live.

[Polarthief]

The problem I see is them trying to find a way for us to use ABarr with Invo. Sadly, it's not going to happen.

The only way we can is if they completely change the L90 talent tier, something I doubt many would be upset about (since, y'know, most of us have been ASKING for that since beta...)

[Fennixx]

Lol at 5.2 arcane design. What a mess!
It'd be way easier:
1) delete current lvl 90 talents
OR
2) remove mana part of said talents AND buff abarr to be worth casting

[Polarthief]

Lol at 5.2 arcane design. What a mess!

Seriously. It really shows that they aren't trying atm.

1) delete current lvl 90 talents

Which is what everyone's BEGGING for, but they won't admit to the failure that is the Mage "Ultimate" tier. That, however, would require effort, something which Blizzard doesn't do too often with class balancing/design mid-way through an expansion (or even during a beta apparently since we all gave negative feedback about it...)

2) remove mana part of said talents AND buff abarr to be worth casting

What more could they really do to ABarr without making it OP in PvP though?

The only thing I can think of is making it deal 100% damage per stack, but overall does half damage on players/pets/PvP-related-shit (if they're going to modify Frost Bomb like that, why not ABarr?)

[Fennixx]

Seriously. It really shows that they aren't trying atm.



Which is what everyone's BEGGING for, but they won't admit to the failure that is the Mage "Ultimate" tier. That, however, would require effort, something which Blizzard doesn't do too often with class balancing/design mid-way through an expansion (or even during a beta apparently since we all gave negative feedback about it...)



What more could they really do to ABarr without making it OP in PvP though?

The only thing I can think of is making it deal 100% damage per stack, but overall does half damage on players/pets/PvP-related-shit (if they're going to modify Frost Bomb like that, why not ABarr?)

Make abar buff other spells, maybe next ablasts or abar gives arcane only buff (be it mana , dmg w/e)

[Polarthief]

Make abar buff other spells, maybe next ablasts or abar gives arcane only buff (be it mana , dmg w/e)

Making it give a buff/mana would actually be pretty cool!





Also, with only 2 weeks left, my optimism has just completely faded. They aren't anywhere close to having Arcane and Frost ready... Fire's only ready once we pick up those 522s.

[Deleted]

Making it give a buff/mana would actually be pretty cool!


Also, with only 2 weeks left, my optimism has just completely faded. They aren't anywhere close to having Arcane and Frost ready... Fire's only ready once we pick up those 522s.

There as been no date announced yet, is it ? 2 weeks seems early if they haven't annouced anything.

[Polarthief]

There as been no date announced yet, is it ? 2 weeks seems early if they haven't annouced anything.

Go look at the front page. I'm extremely disappointed with this news because we're going to get FUCKED over hardcore. They're going to pull another knee-jerk nerf/buff shortly after 5.2 launches if they don't get this right soon. Frost still isn't ready and Arcane is in a giant pile of crap.

[Deleted]

Go look at the front page. I'm extremely disappointed with this news because we're going to get FUCKED over hardcore. They're going to pull another knee-jerk nerf/buff shortly after 5.2 launches if they don't get this right soon. Frost still isn't ready and Arcane is in a giant pile of crap.

Woops, just seen it. Son, im disappoint.

[Polarthief]

Woops, just seen it. Son, im disappoint.

Ikr?

I seriously expect to see a hotfix the friday of patch week that does something to vastly change Mage DPS, and it'll go through 100% untested.

*sighs*

[Deleted]

Ikr?

I seriously expect to see a hotfix the friday of patch week that does something to vastly change Mage DPS, and it'll go through 100% untested.

*sighs*

Just tweeted GC, he almost always replied so we'll know, he's good.

I think we'll probably be fixed the first two weeks of 5.2, PTR build isnt good atm, they won't have time to do something.