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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by dinouille View Post
    I play rogue AND warlocks

    atm warlocks are juste awesome compare to rogue honestly

    yeah they are not god against other, but against rogue, no doubt that i chose my lock ...
    ATM is the important word. This discussion is about warlocks in 5.2 so everything about them right now is irrelevant

  2. #202
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
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    I may go back to my rogue I don't know just the green fire is the only thing keeping me from doing that lol

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by -Apathy- View Post
    I may go back to my rogue I don't know just the green fire is the only thing keeping me from doing that lol
    Green fire means nothing to me. I would prefer a questline that makes us good in pvp instead of shooting useless green fire out of our ass.
    As affliction i dont even use green fire except for when i throw the occasional rain of fire. "Totally worth it"

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by FleckerMan View Post
    I really don't understand why anyone can complain about the 3rd highest DPS spec being nerfed in the talents that are no brainers... I play a warlock as my only high level character.
    Because warlocks are one of the lowest represented classes in arena, and there are 101 ways to nerf affliction PvE damage without harming PvP. Taking Drain Soul off GoSac for instance.

  5. #205
    Pandaren Monk Serpent's Avatar
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    Question from a non-warlock: Assuming the GoSac nerf will result in GoSac and GoSup being almost even (will it?), which minion would be the best? And how significant is the difference?

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by DanielBrems View Post
    Question from a non-warlock: Assuming the GoSac nerf will result in GoSac and GoSup being almost even (will it?), which minion would be the best? And how significant is the difference?
    Felhunter and yes.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by zinnin View Post
    ...
    It will be an interesting PTR cycle.
    No it won't Zinnin.

    Everyone always says "Wait for more notes, it's not live yet" when really, we know, history has shown that all that happens is what's given with one hand is always taken away with the other.

    The nerf to destruction (via gosac), without compensation elsewhere, will remain as it is and will not change in this PTR cycle.

    Pessimistic? No, just going by history.
    Magnificence personified

  8. #208
    Pit Lord Doktor Faustus's Avatar
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    Played Warlock for years, i'll just eat up these changes like all the others.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by pokeadott View Post
    The blanket silence is the only part of the ability that makes it good. This goes for CS too. The only spells I was definitively looking to interrupt these days were: Frost Bomb (not anymore tho), and the occasional Restoclone/Hex if they were going to start/continue a massive CC chain. 90% of the time, I'm blanketing to prevent instant burst (Mage, Demo lock, etc) or blanketting to prevent instant heals during a kill combo on the healer or the dps. GL killing a healer as destro now w/o relying 100% on your partner for CC (only applies to destro cause demo goes FG/WG and Aff is luls dead still).
    You have Fear and the Tier 2 talents though to prevent those instants; which is where they want to go.

    And no, you're not meant to be able to solo down a healer; they couldn't exist in PvP at all if that was ever the case and that's why the game can't be balanced around 1v1 or 2v2.

    For reference, we have now lost 6 seconds of healer lockdown from the previous expansions (Coil + Spell Lock). I can't begin to count the number of my arena kills that have come off comboing those 2 abilities. We have fallen so far from cata, it's getting silly.
    If that combo is getting you all your wins, then tbh it's an overpowered combination because it's self evidently too hard to counter if it's allowing you to win so easily so frequently.

  10. #210
    The Patient Kaizers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinnin View Post
    I think the current effect for Blood Fear now might be slightly UP compared to the other talents in that tier, but if it is it is only because I think that the cost is too high. But really Burning Rush has almost zero use in PvP and Unbound Will is just dangerous to use a lot of the time.

    The fel hunter interrupt change make sense if they are making an effort to reduce the power of CC's that you can do nothing about, and as long as changes like that are made across the board I am fine with it. If it turns out a lot of classes end up, for whatever reason, retaining their instant CC's I would be pretty upset.

    The GoSac change make sense as well, almost no one who plays Destro or Afflic was ever using anything else besides GoSac so hopefully this gives us more options.

    Overall I'm curious on where DPS balance is going though, for the longest time I thought that Affliction was just too high, and needed to be brought down a bit, however they just went and buffed Arcane up to basically the same point Affliction is at (maybe even stronger). As Demo I'm starting to see many specs just out scaling me, and I'm worried that instead of DPS buffs for Destro \ Demo we are just going to see changes to lower burst which people in forums are still complaining about.

    I cannont see Glyph of Ember Tap going live, in BG's specifically destro is nearly unkillable because your ember generation is so high. I can see Glyph of Drain life going live though, right now drain life is absolute shit compared to what some other classes have.

    It will be an interesting PTR cycle.
    Yep, things don't look too bad so far, interested in where mages are gonna be but it looks like arcane got toned down a bit so I'm not hugely worried about dps balance yet. Sad to see sac get a nerf but I get why it happened, hopefully it gets balanced to be equal to the other talents and not inferior.

    Very much looking forward to a new simcraft build.

  11. #211
    One thing to keep in mind in terms of balance for 5.2 is that we don't know what the T15 set bonuses will be. Perhaps they will be something obscenely good so that a slight nerf is necessary to keep us in line. I mean, probably not, but it's still something to consider.

  12. #212
    The Patient Kaizers's Avatar
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    Yeah, here's hoping we get some solid t15 bonus's.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by saltyharbls View Post
    ATM is the important word. This discussion is about warlocks in 5.2 so everything about them right now is irrelevant
    he was saying that he don't understand why rogue get buffed in 5.2 ...

    btw, i don't realy understand all this warlocks nerf honestly, it's bulshit when u see warrior / mage / hunter ... it's ridiculous,

    i hope they will buff others abilitys, cuz i find my lock so fun to play atm.


    fucking noobs crying over Chaos bolt dmg, at least, u can avoid chaos bolt ... try to avoid a warrior / mage / hunter burst .... hf
    Last edited by dinouille; 2012-12-23 at 11:28 PM.

  14. #214
    GOSac for Affliction was probably needed but was it really needed for destro? Surely this talent will be useless in 5.2 if not changed?

    Quote Originally Posted by dinouille View Post
    he was saying that he don't understand why rogue get buffed in 5.2 ...

    btw, i don't realy understand all this warlocks nerf honestly, it's bulshit when u see warrior / mage / hunter ... it's ridiculous,

    i hope they will buff others abilitys, cuz i find my lock so fun to play atm.


    fucking noobs crying over Chaos bolt dmg, at least, u can avoid chaos bolt ... try to avoid a warrior / mage / hunter burst .... hf
    Yeah its retarded so easy to stop Chaos bolt, on the eu forums its a constant cycle every week of a warrior coming in and claiming he got destroyed when he let a warlock cast 4 chaos bolts in a row on him. What's worse is Blizzard listen to these people.

  15. #215
    Yeah I mean I can wreck BGs at this level when people let me cast chaos bolt freely. But like it's a 3 second cast. Do something.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    You have Fear and the Tier 2 talents though to prevent those instants; which is where they want to go.

    And no, you're not meant to be able to solo down a healer; they couldn't exist in PvP at all if that was ever the case and that's why the game can't be balanced around 1v1 or 2v2.


    If that combo is getting you all your wins, then tbh it's an overpowered combination because it's self evidently too hard to counter if it's allowing you to win so easily so frequently.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you post at some point that you don't really have much/any arena experience? Just asking, because you comment a LOT on arena-centric issues and I'm trying to get a sense of your perspective.

    As for your comments, Coil/Spell Lock never 'soloed' healers in cata. For me, it was how we landed most of our kills as RLS with both my and my rogues dmg on a target. That extra 3/6 seconds is game breaking - whether as a dmg, peel or heal preventer. As for soloing in MoP, Affliction hasn't really soloed anyone in ages - and not sure what game you're playing but a Destro lock has pretty much zero chance to solo a healer in the current arena setting, and that's with a blanket. Pairing a blanket at the end of a CC chain is almost mandatory to get kills in most cases, and that still relies on damage from both me and my partner.

    Unless you're playing with a Warrior that can solo stun someone for 7 straight seconds(and really, they can play with whomever they want and still land kills), we are going to find it really hard to help finish something off.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by pokeadott View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you post at some point that you don't really have much/any arena experience? Just asking, because you comment a LOT on arena-centric issues and I'm trying to get a sense of your perspective.

    As for your comments, Coil/Spell Lock never 'soloed' healers in cata. For me, it was how we landed most of our kills as RLS with both my and my rogues dmg on a target. That extra 3/6 seconds is game breaking - whether as a dmg, peel or heal preventer. As for soloing in MoP, Affliction hasn't really soloed anyone in ages - and not sure what game you're playing but a Destro lock has pretty much zero chance to solo a healer in the current arena setting, and that's with a blanket. Pairing a blanket at the end of a CC chain is almost mandatory to get kills in most cases, and that still relies on damage from both me and my partner.

    Unless you're playing with a Warrior that can solo stun someone for 7 straight seconds(and really, they can play with whomever they want and still land kills), we are going to find it really hard to help finish something off.
    It's something that interests me, and talk about a fair bit with players in my guild who have a lot more experience than me in Arena; I don't get as much chance as I'd like to do it but even so I think it's important to know what classes are capable of in PvP because some of those things are important in PvE too.

    I'm aware that CC chains from Warlocks (or any single class) wouldn't solo anyone in arena in Cata, but in Cata burst was relatively far weaker compared to health pools, so you simply couldn't pack the same lethal damage into the duration of those chains. I think that went for everyone, not just Destruction and because of that fundamental difference in the dynamic, I don't think it's really relevent to make direct comparisons.

    Burst is still going to be high, in spite of the changes to trinkets and a few abilities; that's inevitable because going further risks too much impact on PvE. That means you have to look at the other end, and so they're looking to reduce the quantity and ease of CC, so that burst can't be so easily applied within the duration it's applied for. It's something that goes for everyone.

    You single out Warriors, when Demo can do something similar with Axe Toss, GoServ Axe Toss, Shadowfury, and Carrion Swarm; there is just fuck all you can do on the receiving end of that with all the DPS being put out at the same time. But yet, there hasn't been much time for the 5.1 changes to bed in yet, so it's unlikely we'll see any significant changes to the classes hit by that and subsequent hotfixes on the PTR for a number of weeks while they compile data and make a decision as to whether any more is necessary. We've still yet to see the Resilience buff hotfix that's been talked about either, so I really don't think it's fair to judge the sky is falling but rather

  18. #218
    time to reroll a rouge... world of rouge come back...

  19. #219
    I'd like to see a glyph for Destro PvP that would give you a 0.5-1 second cast Chaos Bolt that did reduced damage but entirely as a DoT, similar to the new Devouring Plague design. means it's usable in PvP, fits the 'burst window' model but also gives an un-CCed healer time to react.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by squidbear View Post
    I'd like to see a glyph for Destro PvP that would give you a 0.5-1 second cast Chaos Bolt that did reduced damage but entirely as a DoT, similar to the new Devouring Plague design. means it's usable in PvP, fits the 'burst window' model but also gives an un-CCed healer time to react.

    Actually quite like this idea, chaos bolt has to be worth it's ember cost, else we'd just save them for heals surely :3

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