1. #561
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    Why not bake the 10% stam into all the pets and as an effect of Grim of Sac. It isn't like you can have both a pet out and Grim of Sac on.

    It's definitely easier to just roll it into DI though.
    Well we will always be able to use DI, maybe in some future patch GoSac won't be viable so tying it into DI is the best way. I believe having your imp out will still provide blood pact.

  2. #562
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xerwo View Post
    Owl,Shadow or Hunter isn't enough?
    For 25m it very well could be, but for 10m it can be tricky getting hybrid DPS (only 3 specs in the game), especially in a guild with perhaps only 5 full-time DPS spots, which you'd well expect at least 1 to be melee, and 2 to be pure casters. Even if there is a hunter, he may be required to bring other buffs (though it's tough to say what's more important than spell haste).

    And before you think that "oh, if you only have 2 casters, then the raid doesn't need spell haste" - but then remember that all healers (up to 3) also benefit from it.

  3. #563
    Quote Originally Posted by deviantcultist View Post
    I'd like to have blood pact as a Warlock aura or a castable buff and have imp get something else instead.
    I'd frankly be fine if the imp was just left without it, the dispell and it's niche as a ranged pet make it fit enough roles.

  4. #564
    I don't know if it is lag, but I tried the proper way to use KJC*cough*, that is starting a spell and then move to avoid stacks. It did not work. Or do be more precise it only worked when I was started moving near the end of the cast. It seems like lag but I mention here just to have it in our mind. I will try it again tonight.

    ------------ off topic --------------
    Something a bit off topic with locks, but relevant to 5.2 and since I read only this and DKs forums, I decided to post it here. I tried the dailies in the new hub. The place is very very contained in some places and I really think it will be very bad when patch goes live. We were like 20 people of both factions (it was on Brill EU, PvE. Imagine if it were PvP) and things were not comfortable. Anyway... The other observation is a bit objective. Yet another troll place with the same troll figures and the same raptors etc. This is getting a bit old.
    -----------------------------------------

  5. #565
    Old God Nerraw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xerwo View Post
    Owl,Shadow or Hunter isn't enough?
    Sadly, some of us don't have any of those for 10mans.

  6. #566
    As much as I do argue for at least one additional spec to bring spell haste, I really am arguing for it more as a quality-of-life thing than a necessity. If you're in a casual to semi-casual raid guild, well, they've said 10-player encounters are not balanced around an assumption every single raid buff is available. If you're in a hardcore raid guild, you will bring every raid buff by any means necessary.

    Again, don't get me wrong ... even though I'm not in a hardcore raid guild (semi-hardcore/semi-casual at best), I think it would be nice if those folks had a slightly-easier time ensuring their perfect raid comp, but those are the guilds where players have multiple raid-ready alts and have probably at least 13-15 total players so they can tailor their group comps as necessary. For the more-casual guilds, missing one or even two raid buffs is not going to make or break anything (in the long-term ... specific first kills, maybe)

  7. #567
    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero View Post
    If you're in a hardcore raid guild, you will bring every raid buff by any means necessary.
    Being in a hardcore 10-man guild this tier I can say many of the fights we didn't want to bring caster hybrids so we only had the hunter and when he gave us spell haste we lacked something else. I really don't like how we still have to stack players/classes to manage encounters with an otherwise perfect setup. Some fights were almost not doable without a perfect setup and how are we supposed to know this months in advance?

  8. #568
    At least give us an alternative means of getting the haste buff. Drums or scroll for example.

  9. #569
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    My opionon: Every Boss was doable with every Setup in 10 man. Sure.. Some classes was very nice at some fights!
    I think at Gara'jal: druid's!!, shadowpriests and warlocks.. that was insane.
    I think this tier was balanced perfectly. Everything was doable with the players you got. No alt rerolls was needed.
    Last edited by Maekz; 2013-01-12 at 04:41 PM.

  10. #570
    pve pve pve pve pve....


    Infracted for spam.
    Last edited by xskarma; 2013-01-12 at 05:18 PM.

  11. #571
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    Then don't enter DS with 0-1 shards hoping for regen?

    You can enter DS with 3 shards, as you claim to be doing now, and the (I believe) estimated 1 extra shard gained won't be wasted - even exiting DS with 1 extra shard is an improvement.

    That said, I agree it's lackluster - but totally worthless and comparing it to the felfire bonus is a bit of an overstatement.
    Quote Originally Posted by pongueur View Post
    Affliction : ~0.7 additional shards / 2 min
    During the 20s of DS, the number of corruption (or MG-induced corruption ticks) will be ((20/2.0) + (20/1.0))*(1+haste%). ~6k5 haste rating under DS => 57,5% haste, 104,8% with BL : let's assume 60% as a reference. This yields 48 occasions for nightfall to proc, and with 5% avg proc chance, 2.4 procs on average during dark soul (consistent with my in-game experience). The 2P bonus is thus worth 2.4*0.3 ~= 0.7 additional shards / 2 min.

    Comments :
    Affliction 2P is really crappy, Destruction & Demonology 2P effects look a bit better, but still pretty weak imo. If anyone can provide a reliable estimate of how much additional damage an additional soul shard (resp. burning ember, demonic fury point) is worth, we could easily derive %dps increases, but my guess is <1% for all three specs, <0.5% for affliction.
    0.7 additional sharts / 2min , on a 6 minute encounter it would be 2 extra shards. The main problem is that these 2 extra shards will happen when you already have more shards than normal (shard pooling to use dark soul) and also they will regen when you already have a very high chance to regen (with actual haste values, you regen a LOT with dark soul haste buffs, and it will regen even more with next tier haste values) so it wont be uncommon to have a shard regen with already 4 shards during dark soul.

    Pongeur predicted a < 0.5% dps increase for this tier, assuming that ALL regenerated shards would have its full use. Assuming that this bonus is a complete waste under 20%, I would say a 0.3~0.4 dps increase would be more precise. The felflame bonus was a 0.5~0.7 (on encounters with a long felflame travel time you could gain 1 or 2 extra enhanced felflame). So this is probably the worst 2P bonus for affliction ever.

  12. #572
    Quote Originally Posted by Rayaleith View Post
    I don't know if it is lag, but I tried the proper way to use KJC*cough*, that is starting a spell and then move to avoid stacks. It did not work. Or do be more precise it only worked when I was started moving near the end of the cast. It seems like lag but I mention here just to have it in our mind. I will try it again tonight.
    On live, if you start casting a spell and start moving shortly after, you don't get snared, doesn't "work" for channeled spells since the debuff kicks in at channel ticks.

    On PTR it's working the same for channeled spells, but very diferently for "normal" spells:

    You can chain cast spells while moving and never get snared unless you either jump, or "change direction" mid cast.

    To explain a bit better, lets say your movement keys are WASD, you can for example circle strafe right pressing D while panning with your mouse and chain cast incinerates all day long, however, if you decide to change direction and start circle strafe to the left (pressing A) mid cast, the snare will kick in.
    Jumping mid cast always triggers the snare.

  13. #573
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkura View Post
    Feel free to check my achievements and guild progress. We disbanded due to too many people quitting week before christmas.


    Checked & edited. My bad, mate!
    Just to many posers in here

  14. #574
    Quote Originally Posted by lockedout View Post
    Well we will always be able to use DI, maybe in some future patch GoSac won't be viable so tying it into DI is the best way. I believe having your imp out will still provide blood pact.
    I meant having it as an effect of Grim of Sac AND for all the pets. That way the only reason you'd never have the buff is if you don't have a pet out at all.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-12 at 12:02 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Maekz View Post
    My opionon: Every Boss was doable with every Setup in 10 man. Sure.. Some classes was very nice at some fights!
    I think at Gara'jal: druid's!!, shadowpriests and warlocks.. that was insane.
    I think this tier was balanced perfectly. Everything was doable with the players you got. No alt rerolls was needed.
    Heroic Empress says Hi.

    Seriously, that fight is trivialized when you have a disc priest (which we didn't have one). The second our mage geared up his alt priest for that specific fight we killed it in like 10-15 attempts.

  15. #575
    Going back to the conversation about using Soul Fire in Meta; currently its worth it to cast SF in Meta during the last few seconds of DS if you have the Fury for it. Basically, 6 seconds left on DS, and you have 400 Fury. Why not blow all of that Fury on SF in the next 6 seconds? The other option is to ToC, and finish DS with 200 Fury, which is a huge waste.

    I have a bit of a unique point of view when it comes to the new Demonology. I came from playing a Fury Warrior for all of Dragon Soul. Fury was all about DPR (Damage per Rage), whereas being a caster is all about DPET. Demonology in its current form is about both. If you played a Fury Warrior before Blood Thirst was changed to generate rage, think of Demonic Fury the same way you thought of your Rage back then. You want to finish all of your procs and CD phases with 0 rage, spend some time building it up, and then blow it all on your next proc/CD.

    This line of thinking (Using our MC procs for burning through Fury near the end of DS) is going to go away because of the extra Fury SF is going to generate. We will never want to waste MC procs for more damage when we could use them for more Fury for a higher Meta uptime. In Decimation phase, we have unlimited MC procs, so we can use them whenever we want.

    Another Fury Warrior line of thinking that holds true for the current Demo model: If you don't finish a fight with 0 Demonic Fury and close to 0 Mana, you didn't do as much damage as you could have.

  16. #576
    Quote Originally Posted by Maekz View Post
    My opionon: Every Boss was doable with every Setup in 10 man. Sure.. Some classes was very nice at some fights!
    I think at Gara'jal: druid's!!, shadowpriests and warlocks.. that was insane.
    I think this tier was balanced perfectly. Everything was doable with the players you got. No alt rerolls was needed.
    Yeah good luck to any guild that didn't have a disc priest.

  17. #577
    The Patient
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    On live, PvP Power grants 0% healing to Balance, Feral, Windwalker, Retribution, Shadow, Enhancement and Elemental. In the next 5.2 build, this number will be 25% (or half of what a healing spec gets). We agree that PvP healing feels too weak for these hybrid classes. We also don't think Shadow really needs this buff, so we will likely offset it in other ways.

    Wondering if this is going to affect our pvp self healing. I'm assuming not, since our heals are flat percentages, so their size depends on your current health pool. However a large reason for hybrids doing shit healing is they gain nothing from pvp power and the heals they have are further reduced by battle fatigue (30%). Seems with this change we will remain the same and not receive the 25% buff and still be gimped by battle fatigue, have they over looked this or is it intended???

    Currently in the pvp enviroment hybrids push out just as much damage as the pures, now they are buffing their healing on the grounds of it being to weak(survival) but us the cloth wearing punchbag class that we are for melee ain't gonna benefit at all from this change.

    Fair or not?

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by villie; 2013-01-12 at 11:52 PM.

  18. #578
    Quote Originally Posted by crysilaero View Post
    0.7 additional sharts / 2min , on a 6 minute encounter it would be 2 extra shards. The main problem is that these 2 extra shards will happen when you already have more shards than normal (shard pooling to use dark soul) and also they will regen when you already have a very high chance to regen (with actual haste values, you regen a LOT with dark soul haste buffs, and it will regen even more with next tier haste values) so it wont be uncommon to have a shard regen with already 4 shards during dark soul.

    Pongeur predicted a < 0.5% dps increase for this tier, assuming that ALL regenerated shards would have its full use. Assuming that this bonus is a complete waste under 20%, I would say a 0.3~0.4 dps increase would be more precise. The felflame bonus was a 0.5~0.7 (on encounters with a long felflame travel time you could gain 1 or 2 extra enhanced felflame). So this is probably the worst 2P bonus for affliction ever.
    I'd have to agree as far as Affliction goes. It would be nice to look at the other gear that is coming out in this tier and the stats to see if it is even worth getting the set or just doing a mix and match.

  19. #579
    Quote Originally Posted by villie View Post
    Fair or not?

    Thoughts?
    I find it hard to comment, since I'd probably be completely bias - but it was never that big a deal back in Cata / wotlk unless my memory is failing me - I don't mind them being balanced with it in mind, but they need to keep it in check.

    Shadow priest healing combined with their natural survivability seems out of control, I've been in a fair few games where the priest may as well have been a healer and dps all in one.

  20. #580
    it seems they are considering adding blood pact into dark intent, it isnt haste, but ill take it.

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