1. #1221
    I had a couple of back-to-back procs from BotH during some pulls of Megaera HC yesterday. A close to 8k int proc during most of the duration of BL. Hell yeah.

  2. #1222
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkura View Post
    I had a couple of back-to-back procs from BotH during some pulls of Megaera HC yesterday. A close to 8k int proc during most of the duration of BL. Hell yeah.
    Working as intended.
    Said no ghostcrawler ever

  3. #1223
    I'm interested to see how useful people think the 100% crit trinket will be for Demo - mostly relating to Doom.

    If we get a proc during Dark Soul this is obviously the perfect scenario - Dark Soul buffed, 100% crit Doom would be pretty good. I'm thinking best case is you get off a HoG->Meta->Doom->Toc for corruption buffing/Soulfire depending on how it interacts with crit damage scaling. Could be pretty tricky making the most out of it tbh.

    I'm assuming that a 100%crit Doom is going to be better than a Dark soul buffed one - which could make it pretty frustrating if you manage to lock yourself out of meta for the proc duration (quite unlikely I guess but still possible).

    Starting to think that several factors (set bonuses, Meta gem, trinkets) are all tailoring a lot more towards affliction for 5.2. WTB a mastery proc/on-use trinket!

  4. #1224
    High Overlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rustjive
    RealPPM is designed in a way where you're not guaranteed a proc on the first cast (the time since last proc is capped at 10s), but your chance to get it within the start of the fight should still be very high. With a .5 RPPM trinket, Bonkura's proc rate should be: .5 * 1.15 * 10 / 60 = 9.5% ish (assuming 6637 haste rating). The chance that he cast spells for 3 minutes straight with that rate without it proccing is impossbly low. There is something amiss.
    That is not exacty true.

    It is actually totally normal that you get to see some heavy randomness with low RPPM trinkets. Let me clarify this a bit :
    - Each time you have an opportunity to trigger the effect, the game rolls a dice and (whether or not you actually get a proc) saves the present time in a variable say "time_of_last_chance_to_proc".
    - The formula for the chance to proc is "P = RPPM * haste * (present_time - time_of_last_chance_to_proc) / 60s", with the time difference capped to 10s.

    This means that if you regularly get a chance to proc the effect, the chance that the effect triggers between t and t+dt is dP = RPPM * haste * dt / 60s. With that underlying mechanic, the time between two procs will follow an exponential law, i.e. the arrival of procs is a poisson process of rate (RPPM * haste / 60) s^(-1).

    The cap will only come in action when you don't get a chance to proc the effect for a long time. This is true at the moment of the pull. And you indeed have a ~10% chance to proc your trinket right away, but only on the FIRST chance you get to proc it. On subsequent occasions, the chance will be very low again.

    TL;DR : low RPPM => high randomness, totally normal (no value judgement, just stating the math facts). Relatively high chance to proc right away at the pull, if you don't get a proc on your first hit, the chance immediately drops to what it would be in the middle of a fight.

    - If you like the idea of having trinket procs not be totally predictable
    - but dislike the idea of low RPPM trinkets getting very random results (in terms of the total number of procs and their distribution over time)
    - [and have sufficient probability intuition / knowledge]
    => Go check my suggestion of "smoothed RPPM" : http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post20209867
    Last edited by Surutcra; 2013-02-15 at 11:34 AM. Reason: Correctness
    Surutcra@EU-Hyjal (Arcturus#2484)

  5. #1225
    Quote Originally Posted by Whabam View Post
    Starting to think that several factors (set bonuses, Meta gem, trinkets) are all tailoring a lot more towards affliction for 5.2. WTB a mastery proc/on-use trinket!
    Affliction needs to always have 1 or 2 soulshards to take full benefit of crit trinket, meaning you can't spend them all on other procs. Tricky for everyone.

  6. #1226
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridcully View Post
    Affliction needs to always have 1 or 2 soulshards to take full benefit of crit trinket, meaning you can't spend them all on other procs. Tricky for everyone.
    yeah, i think that this fact alone may end up decreasing the value of that trinket quite a bit.

    made me think of another question though, say our dots are all buffed with 100% crit. when we MG, will the ghost ticks also be crits every time?

  7. #1227
    Quote Originally Posted by Viggers View Post
    made me think of another question though, say our dots are all buffed with 100% crit. when we MG, will the ghost ticks also be crits every time?
    Not likely, but can't think of a way to test it without spending an hour on dummy switching gear sets. After some thinking, spending 2 shards is stupid, thats 16 seconds of +25% damage while this trinket provides about +30% for the duration of the buffed dots. Even spending 1 shard makes this trinket lose a minimum of (8+8+8)/(21+27+36)*25/30 ~= 24% of it's potential value.

  8. #1228
    Quote Originally Posted by Whabam View Post
    I'm interested to see how useful people think the 100% crit trinket will be for Demo - mostly relating to Doom.

    If we get a proc during Dark Soul this is obviously the perfect scenario - Dark Soul buffed, 100% crit Doom would be pretty good. I'm thinking best case is you get off a HoG->Meta->Doom->Toc for corruption buffing/Soulfire depending on how it interacts with crit damage scaling. Could be pretty tricky making the most out of it tbh.

    I'm assuming that a 100%crit Doom is going to be better than a Dark soul buffed one - which could make it pretty frustrating if you manage to lock yourself out of meta for the proc duration (quite unlikely I guess but still possible).

    Starting to think that several factors (set bonuses, Meta gem, trinkets) are all tailoring a lot more towards affliction for 5.2. WTB a mastery proc/on-use trinket!
    It might be good for Doom, but when you consider how many damage sources we have, our inherent slow casts and ToC refreshing of Corruption, I can see this trinket being utterly abyssmal for Demo.

  9. #1229
    A 100% crit Doom plus a couple ToCs makes me think it will at the very least be competitive for Demo ... top 3 at the worst. This is without doing any math, of course.

    With this trinket, something to watch the proc, and good reaction speed / timing, you could in theory maintain 100% crit on Doom through an entire encounter. That's huge.

  10. #1230
    Quote Originally Posted by Count Zero View Post
    A 100% crit Doom plus a couple ToCs makes me think it will at the very least be competitive for Demo ... top 3 at the worst. This is without doing any math, of course.

    With this trinket, something to watch the proc, and good reaction speed / timing, you could in theory maintain 100% crit on Doom through an entire encounter. That's huge.
    Wild imps, Wild Imps everywhere...

    now joke's aside Iam no so sure about it, the RNG of ppm can fuck one over and you get a proc just after a DS ended and having to decided if redo doom is worth it(might be)

    On the other hand procing it at the start with DS will be just "fabulous"
    Warlock / IA Operative / Wizard / Engineer

  11. #1231
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellfury View Post
    On the other hand procing it at the start with DS will be just "fabulous"
    Having it proc on the pull with all of your CDs up will probably make double casting it worth it for the 1.5 minute duration.

  12. #1232
    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    Having it proc on the pull with all of your CDs up will probably make double casting it worth it for the 1.5 minute duration.
    I mean, what else are you gonna cast in that 4 second window? ToC? XD

  13. #1233
    Quote Originally Posted by Xorn View Post
    I mean, what else are you gonna cast in that 4 second window? ToC? XD

    Well, Soulfire with all the Int procs, DS and that trinket would hit extremely hard. Hits for well over a million on Alysrazor with a 25 stack, and that's only 75% Crit. Doom would probably still translate to more damage.

  14. #1234
    Real PPM is a misnomer. You aren't guaranteed any number of procs per minute or per fight for that matter. The only difference from a completely random roll is that the time between each attack/spell/tick modifies the probability of it proccing (the old PPM system only modified this based on weapon speed), so that the number of procs on average is fair for specs that do big, slow attacks compared to specs that do many small attacks.

  15. #1235
    Quote Originally Posted by pongueur View Post
    And you indeed have a ~10% chance to proc your trinket right away, but only on the FIRST chance you get to proc it.
    Edit: I can't read.
    http://darkcontent.wordpress.com/ - blog (updated Oct. 8, 2013). Latest post: T16H Affliction Trinket Rankings in Combination, done in SimC 540-4.

  16. #1236
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    Regarding doom, the tricky thing is that you already get to have a strongly buffed doom by casting it while DS is active. The 100% crit one is probaby even stronger, but still as you are most likely not to have the opportunity to combine both, the gap from the current situation will be substantially smaller than il would seem.
    Surutcra@EU-Hyjal (Arcturus#2484)

  17. #1237
    That trinket is causing major pain to the DEVS, and considerig they are already trying to nerf it for shadow priest (goddamn it was a nice chance to dust off my former main) maybe it will get changed.

  18. #1238
    LOl,4s 100% crit is so nice for us?Dont forget it will be nerfed if it is op for us.
    Just care about 5.2 lock's pvp,as I think we don not have a reason to get into arean!
    [PTR donnot have 30% decrease health recovery,so it will make less effcet for us to see our pvp situations!]
    Last edited by shinewaylee; 2013-02-17 at 04:56 AM.

  19. #1239
    Quote Originally Posted by Ridcully View Post
    Not likely, but can't think of a way to test it without spending an hour on dummy switching gear sets.
    I can think of an easy way to test it. Cast your DoTs, channel MG, swap your weapon for a grey vendor trash one, channel MG on the same DoTs. Compare the damage from the MG generated DoT ticks before and after you removed the weapon. If the damage is the same, it's running off the DoT stat snapshot. If the damage is lower, MG does a new snapshot separate from the DoTs themselves.

    However, I don't have an Afflic spec to test this with right now. Can anyone save me the trouble of a respec and give it a try? It might be kind of important to know this now.

  20. #1240
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirroth View Post
    I can think of an easy way to test it. Cast your DoTs, channel MG, swap your weapon for a grey vendor trash one, channel MG on the same DoTs. Compare the damage from the MG generated DoT ticks before and after you removed the weapon. If the damage is the same, it's running off the DoT stat snapshot. If the damage is lower, MG does a new snapshot separate from the DoTs themselves.
    I just did this, and it seems that the mg damages are snapshotted off the dot stat. I'm not sure about crit chances though (Alysrazor may be a good fight to figure this out).

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