Patch 5.2 Warlock discussion

[Zinnin]

Do you honestly feel that Demo and Destro can't compete with other classes? I don't get why you would want buffs for the specs when you could just ask for the very top specs to get nerfed. There's a lot of other specs waiting to catch up with Destro and Demo...

I agree with this sentiment, compared to the average DPS across all of the different specs Demo and Destro are fairly strong. It is only when you compare their damage to some of the arcane or affliction parses where they start looking underpowered.

The only thing that I would ask for as a Demo warlock right now is for them to stop making fights with damage increase mechanics that don't effect pets.....and for them to give Demo some sort of fury return that works like Shadowburns; any add that dies within Xs of hitting it with Soulfire gives X fury instead of having to get the killing blow. It is one of the mechanics where I feel Demo can fall a little short; fights where Afflic and Destro can gain near unlimited resources but Demo is stuck with the base amount.

[Deleted]

Do you honestly feel that Demo and Destro can't compete with other classes? I don't get why you would want buffs for the specs when you could just ask for the very top specs to get nerfed. There's a lot of other specs waiting to catch up with Destro and Demo...

Its not about feelings, cos each demo/destro lock would have totally different feelings - cos its all about their guild. Its about numbers:

http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overa...14/60/default/
http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_...14/60/default/

Ok now there will be XXX ppl that will wrote AGAIN:
theres not enought data for demo and destro to said that they are to weak.

And i wont dissagree with that statement. Just ... is it not enought data to say that they are weak but same time its more than ok to say that they are ok ?

[Hellfury]

Dont think demo needs numbers, rather mechanic changes such as

- More reasonable soulfire mana cost under Molten Core.
- Mana-regen under metamorphosis
- Option for a mastery legendary gem
- Stronger Imp so we could have a better pet option for those fights with alot of target change and/or out of reach mobs
- Passive Wild Imps, GoSupremacy being more attractive(GoSup is in t14 but because of set bonus in a 2min DS world, GoServ gives almost no chance)

[Jessicka]

Its not about feelings, cos each demo/destro lock would have totally different feelings - cos its all about their guild. Its about numbers:

http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overa...14/60/default/
http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_...14/60/default/

Ok now there will be XXX ppl that will wrote AGAIN:
theres not enought data for demo and destro to said that they are to weak.

And i wont dissagree with that statement. Just ... is it not enought data to say that they are weak but same time its more than ok to say that they are ok ?

I think with the low use, but actually being not far off the pace of the "pack" it is pretty reasonable to assert that those two specs are doing okay. I think what those links show though, is that Affliction would probably need nerfing very heavily for people to consider switching. Right now, the nerf to Sac is fuck all, and wont prompt people to switch from that talent, let alone the spec.

[Medieve]

Its not about feelings, cos each demo/destro lock would have totally different feelings - cos its all about their guild. Its about numbers:

http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overa...14/60/default/
http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_...14/60/default/

Ok now there will be XXX ppl that will wrote AGAIN:
theres not enought data for demo and destro to said that they are to weak.

And i wont dissagree with that statement. Just ... is it not enought data to say that they are weak but same time its more than ok to say that they are ok ?

If anything, all it shows is Aff needs to be "nerfed to the ground" before people will migrate to other specs, and with it being the spec that's supposed to define locks, I don't see it happening. Best case scenario is they nerf Aff to be the same as Destro simmed, but I don't think we'd see a ton of players swapping because it plays so strongly. It's different than Fire swapping to Arcane because Destro and Demo doesn't have the infinite mana via scorch type-option to artificially inflate it (although you can argue Destro overkill, but that's meter inflation, and really does little to advance a raid past a boss). You're better off staying with the spec you know and functions very well in all target scenarios than move to an uncomfortable spec and re-learn it mid-expansion. Considering the trinkets coming out, I don't see Aff going anywhere.

[Deleted]

You could say that the difference between Aff and Demo = Haste scaling.

[Jessicka]

You could say that the difference between Aff and Demo = Haste scaling.

You could say that, but the problem is probably Mastery being too strong for Aff more than it is Haste being too weak for Demo.

[luckydevours]

The new legendary metagem (haste proc) will help demo alot becoming an alternative to affliction ....

[Jessicka]

The new legendary metagem (haste proc) will help demo alot becoming an alternative to affliction ....

How so? Haste procs are the one thing we can't stack Meta with. We have similar problems with Heroism if we don't have a bunch of MC procs saved up.

[luckydevours]

How so? Haste procs are the one thing we can't stack Meta with. We have similar problems with Heroism if we don't have a bunch of MC procs saved up.

Sarcasm. The new meta gem is just another reason alongside bigger amounts haste on gear demo will not close the gap to affli in the next content, if anything falling behind even more. They really should increase the gcd of ToC to 1.5 secs, its damage and fury costs by 50% and the problem would be solved.

[Gohzerlock]

Sarcasm. The new meta gem is just another reason alongside bigger amounts haste on gear demo will not close the gap to affli in the next content, if anything falling behind even more. They really should increase the gcd of ToC to 1.5 secs and its damage and fury costs by 50% --> problem solved.

That would be an interesting idea, I still think soul fire cost overlooked is terrible. I'm VERY surprised we haven't seen many warlock changes, a bit scared.

[Hatelocker]

I don't pvp but even in pve if they changed ToC from an instant cast to a 1.5 second cast people would be upset at the movement loss they would have. I can only imagine how upset the pvp crowd would be as they not only lose movement but could also be silenced. That would help make hero and the metagem more useful from us in a patchwerk style fight but I don't see them doing it.

[Jessicka]

Think he means a normal 1.5s gcd, been asking for it since beta, isn't going to happen.

[Deleted]

Only changes I think demo needs is decimation sf cost to be fury neutral and chaos wave to have the shadow flame dot to make it reasonable to useful in pve. But that's just me.

---------- Post added 2013-02-19 at 10:19 PM ----------

Oh and meta cd reduced/on GCD.

[Medieve]

The only real thing slowing aff down at this point is the insane amount of native crit on gear, but even that isn't slowing aff down when looking at trinket procs and orange meta gem coupled with pandemic. The only real way to combat that is to update DoT strength dynamically, but that's not going to happen. The warlock uproar would be insane, and would take everything interesting away from the spec.

[Teye]

Oh and meta cd reduced/on GCD.

If Meta was put on the GCD, I'd never play the spec again. That would be so insanely bulky.

[Deleted]

That was regarding the 8s cd when entering meta not activating the ability :-) with trinkets going the way of PPM it would be a nice qol change and opens the spec a bit more to stance dancing on procs. Something I'm quite enjoying.

[Deleted]

Warlock
- Hand of Gul'dan, Shadowflame, Shadow Bolt, Touch of Chaos and Wild Imp Firebolt +15%.
- Soul Fire damage +22%.
- Conflagrate and Immolate damage +20%.
- Incinerate damage +10%.

wow
Nice buffs ?

Hearing lots of concerns about Power Shot in PvP, so we may need a PvP-specific tweak there.

Nah, PvP specific tweaks aren't possible... are they ? What about Chaos Bolt then ! -_-

[Marximos]

wow
Nice buffs ?

I had a wide.. WIDE smile when I read that blue.

here is hoping it sticks!

[Deleted]

Great to see Demo and Destro getting some love. This should bring them to an equal footing with Affliction or close enough?
Also it seems that Affliction is not getting any nerfs after all.