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  1. #61
    The Lightbringer Lovestar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bonkbonk100 View Post
    While I agree that Shockwave was too good for Arms, I do not understand why they add such a stupid mechanic in order to reduce the cooldown.

    Add a new passive to protection called something silly like Crowd controller that reduces the cooldown by 20 seconds. Done. Nerf for PvP Arms as intended, no change to Protection PvE ( unless Protection PvP was overpowered aswell? )
    It could be simpler than that, since multiple Talents across classes scale slightly differently or alter their effect based on class.

    Just split it Shockwave (Arms, Fury) and Shockwave (Protection). If that seems clunky and unclean, well, compare that to the current solution.

  2. #62
    I've been playing for quite a few years so I am very used to the warrior nerf cycle, it happens every expansion. The difference this time was that blizz actually made warriors as viable as other classes in pvp after quite a few years of not being that good. The real issue with this is that long term warriors learnt to adapt to this nerf cycle to the point that a lot of them became very good players. So when at the start of mop they were close to other classes in terms of talents and numbers the general skill lvl of an average warrior surpassed that of the average skill lvl of many other classes, this skewed the numbers. I'm not saying that all warriors are great players but over a few years of hardship and finding work arounds you will become better than someone who does not have to put in as much effort.

    Now this leaves us in a bit of a bad way as this directly impacts pve which is a separate game altogether compared to pvp but again any long term warrior is also used to this happening as part of the warrior nerf cycle. Part of the problem is the community QQ over op warrior etc. but a much larger problem is blizz wanting tight deadlines on content and therefore unwilling to spend the invest of time and money making a compelling fix for an already awkwardly muddled class. If you dig deep into the fundamentals of warrior you will find a pure tanking class with a bizarre resource mechanic that not even blizz fully understand at its core.

    The quick fix attitude of blizz plus the need to appease pvp players who are unwilling to put in the extra work to find work arounds has caused this simple as that. In the end if you have played warrior for a long time you will find a way around this we always do. Ultimately though what we should really be upset about is the loose and poor implementation of this class in mop. If you are really upset make a lvl 1 gnome warrior and go on a march like they used to in the old days.

  3. #63
    Scarab Lord Gandrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rorschachs View Post
    Solution : Replace shockwave talent with throwdown(maybe with a smaller cd than cata). Make shockwave baseline for prot.
    I honestly feel like 40s CD is fine for DPS Wars considering SW wasn't a great option for Warriors in PvE anyway, but this change is over the top and stupid nerf to Prot Wars. I am just hoping casters are actually going to be casting something soon.

    I think the problem that most people have with Throwdown though, is that it is like Frostjaw or Psychic Horror, in it is practically 2 CCs in 1 (stun/root with no root dr), except that you cannot trinket the 2nd CC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefkow View Post
    2nd wind nerfed, and impending victory/enraged regen not touched.... im getting scared now.
    Well, the Healing of Enraged Regeneration was not increased, but it's ridiculous rage cost was cut in half. I do wish that we could take it up to 35% and see how that goes.
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  4. #64
    Ghostcrawler said: "'TBH, we think it was too good at soloing old content. Even old content should offer *some* challenge."

    I'm losing hope to see Second wind's nerf cancelled.
    Last edited by Senen; 2012-12-22 at 07:35 PM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightstalker View Post
    Thank you idiotic developers. Instead of nerfing it for PvP alone. Oh no guess what, we are to lazy so just change it in general.....
    Who uses Shockwave in PvE as Arms?
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  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    Well, the Healing of Enraged Regeneration was not increased, but it's ridiculous rage cost was cut in half. I do wish that we could take it up to 35% and see how that goes.
    Doubt that they would buff either of the other talents. The whole tier was already pretty situational pve wise and a buff like this would put one talent really far ahead of the others.
    Quote Originally Posted by Senen View Post
    Ghostscrawler said: "'TBH, we think it was too good at soloing old content. Even old content should offer *some* challenge."
    Have they heard of the class they have ingame called dk ?
    Last edited by cFortyfive; 2012-12-22 at 07:36 PM.

  7. #67
    Ghostscrawler said: "'TBH, we think it was too good at soloing old content. Even old content should offer *some* challenge."
    Have they heard of the class they have ingame called dk ?
    Just love how they talk about the 2nd wind nerf (which only works sub 35% HP) being warranted when I need this talent to do anything close to what a dk can do with only deathstrike which has no restriction on it.



    Thank you idiotic developers. Instead of nerfing it for PvP alone. Oh no guess what, we are to lazy so just change it in general.....
    Who uses Shockwave in PvE as Arms?
    Isn't he talking about the 2nd wind nerf?
    Last edited by Cernunnos; 2012-12-22 at 07:40 PM.
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  8. #68
    Scarab Lord Gandrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whoranzone View Post
    Doubt that they would buff either of the other talents. The whole tier was already pretty situational pve wise and a buff like this would put one talent really far ahead of the others.
    well, i cant speak for others but choices have been laid out and pretty simple for me

    before acquiring a good amount of crit, i'd used impending victory as fury. now i dont even bother to switch out second wind. I have not talented Enraged Regeneration since the Beta.
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  9. #69
    Epic! Demetrion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    every new ability warriors have gotten in mop has been nerfed,so your wrong.and shock wave is the only cc a warrior has now.and no change is not a CC,but rather a gap closer.

    lets add this up shall we?
    avatar nerf, heroic throw nerf,2nd wind nerf, taste for blood nerf,shock wave nerf,HL gylph nerf, shall i keep going?to me we are looking like the same shitty ass class we were at the end of cata.the only difference is that we have better burst "for now".blizz has nerfed/strip all the utility away since mop started.we actually have less utility/control now then we did in cata. both improved hamstring and herioc throw slince "both available in cata" are now out of the game. like i said i thought warriors were in a good spot after the last round of nerfs,this new ones are just over kill.

    no buff to Bladestrom lmfao.and wtf is bliss deal with adding a slow to warbringer and we have it on a glyph for HS?i mean wtf just bake hamstring in with MS already and be done with it.its not like hamstring has a root anymore.
    Just, they aren't same shitty class they were at the end of Cata.
    Shockwave was dumb. AoE stun on 20 seconds cooldown which required no ramp up time, no rage cost, not a single requirement on target and did pretty high damage for STUN ability, and you're telling us that was fine?
    All the nerfs you have stated were damn justified. 20 seconds of unstoppable killing machine? Keeping casters unable to cast for 20 second +? One shotting people was fine?

    Not like warrior is the only class which got nerfed by a huge chunk.

    Stop talking about things you don't understand...

    With the change warriors will still have high damage, insane burst, decent mobility and decent CC and now you will have to think before using SW.


    Good change overall.

  10. #70
    Legendary! TJ's Avatar
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    Oh look, they nerfed the wrong things again. Good job Blizzard you are so good!

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-22 at 08:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Demetrion View Post
    Just, they aren't same shitty class they were at the end of Cata.
    Shockwave was dumb. AoE stun on 20 seconds cooldown which required no ramp up time, no rage cost, not a single requirement on target and did pretty high damage for STUN ability, and you're telling us that was fine?
    All the nerfs you have stated were damn justified. 20 seconds of unstoppable killing machine? Keeping casters unable to cast for 20 second +? One shotting people was fine?

    Not like warrior is the only class which got nerfed by a huge chunk.

    Stop talking about things you don't understand...

    With the change warriors will still have high damage, insane burst, decent mobility and decent CC and now you will have to think before using SW.


    Good change overall.
    "All the nerfs were justified" oh and you say "Stop talking about things you don't understand..." the irony is off the charts in this post.

    Pretty much none of the nerfs Blizzard have done are correct, the abilities needed to be changed/nerfed but Blizzard did it in the COMPLETE wrong way. It's like they have no idea about their game whatsoever at times..

  11. #71
    Well seeing that most of the classes are getting buff and warrior is getting nerfs means that other classes will surpass warriors. So NO these are not good changes. Besides "will still have high damage"? Are u retarded? Without cd's warriors dmg sucks.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Demetrion View Post
    Just, they aren't same shitty class they were at the end of Cata.
    Shockwave was dumb. AoE stun on 20 seconds cooldown which required no ramp up time, no rage cost, not a single requirement on target and did pretty high damage for STUN ability, and you're telling us that was fine?
    All the nerfs you have stated were damn justified. 20 seconds of unstoppable killing machine? Keeping casters unable to cast for 20 second +? One shotting people was fine?

    Not like warrior is the only class which got nerfed by a huge chunk.

    Stop talking about things you don't understand...

    With the change warriors will still have high damage, insane burst, decent mobility and decent CC and now you will have to think before using SW.


    Good change overall.
    its you thats need to stop talking about things you do not understand,like warriors.if you read some of my other posts you would see where i said warriors needed a few nerfs at the start of mop.you would also see where i stated i think warriors were in a good spot/balanced after the last round of nerfs.

    yes im telling you shock wave was fine,why thats you say?well because thats a warriors only stun if we choose to talent it.also giving the fact warriors lost the root on HS.then throw in the fact that mop has giving more cc,roots,slows to every class then ever before.if you think shock wave was the main reason why pvp in mop sucks,your fucking crazy.blizz just doubled the cd of shock wave,and you think thats a balanced nerf?lmfao.maybe and i repeat maybe a 30 sec cd would be the sweet spot.the way it is now is fuckign BS.

    tell me since i dont know shit,how is mop warriors so much different then cata warriors,outside of burst/cd stacking now?at the start of mop we were giving alot of ulility,but that has been taken away.all we have left now is burst/cd stacking.remember how that turned out in cata?watch what happens when blizz nerfs warrior cd stacking,and they will.

    so your telling me that warrior fear needed to be nerfed?it was that op'ed?you also telling me that blizz did not go over board with the heroic throw nerf?sure remove the silence on pummel,but leave it on heroic throw.see this is how it works,blizz over nerfs warriors making them useless,then we have to wait until the next x-pac to be good again,rinse and repeat.

    do you like bladestrom being one of the weakest abilities in game?its useless and so it dragons roar more or less"both have been nerfed and thats why they both suck".stop bitching about the way i see thing and gets on blizzs ass and tell them to buff or weak abilities.but you could give rats ass right?

    the funny thing about your post is you never said i was wrong lol.we both know everyhting about the warrior class is one big nerf.and yes every thing warrior got in mop has been nerfed or removed.wow that sounds like a great game to me.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-22 at 06:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    Oh look, they nerfed the wrong things again. Good job Blizzard you are so good!

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-22 at 08:42 PM ----------



    "All the nerfs were justified" oh and you say "Stop talking about things you don't understand..." the irony is off the charts in this post.

    Pretty much none of the nerfs Blizzard have done are correct, the abilities needed to be changed/nerfed but Blizzard did it in the COMPLETE wrong way. It's like they have no idea about their game whatsoever at times..
    i agree with you 100%-and dont worry bilzz will figure out they nerfed/removed the wrong warriors ability is soon.then they will turn around and nerf our bust/cd stacking making us shitty again.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Cernunnos View Post
    Just love how they talk about the 2nd wind nerf (which only works sub 35% HP) being warranted when I need this talent to do anything close to what a dk can do with only deathstrike which has no restriction on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by whoranzone View Post
    Have they heard of the class they have ingame called dk ?
    I believe you guys need to check the numbers twice. SW by itself is more or less as much healing a DK can do*including Blood Shield in there*. Add in Shield Barriers and you have extremely high passive heals/mitigation even a DK wouldn't even dream of.

    You get a tiny bit under 2% HPS by using all your runes on Death Strike and using Rune Tap on CD + getting the free proc every 45s. That's discounting Bloodworms and stuff, but you get the point. Slightly over 3% HPS if you count Blood Shield for physical damage. (assuming 100% mastery, depends on the mastery value of course)

    It's not really comparable either way, because DKs have a -10% modifier instead of 25% (Blood Pres vs Defensive Stance) and generally take larger damage through less armor and no blocks. DKs are generally viable through their easier scaling with DPS gear, larger amount of healing cooldowns (<< most important part), and not being forced to be on 35% (<< 2nd most important part). But quite frankly, the passive self-healing/mitigation from Warriors is wayyyyyy over what a DK could dream of.

    It's just not really exploitable because of enrage timers and mechanics and stuff. Note that you're also comparing an automatic passive that activates even through CCs and stuff compared to an actual ability usage that most DKs can't even do properly (I assumed 10 DS/min which is way over what most DKs can perform.)

    Take from it what you will - I don't see a reason for me to be biased on this - maybe I am, but I don't really see why I would so /shrug
    Last edited by Mionelol; 2012-12-22 at 11:56 PM.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Lebonj View Post
    Nail - head.

    About time warriors got some of their control taken off them. Yeah it sucks for PvE and maybe should have just been changed for PvP purposes, but I for one am sick and tired of being stuck in a flurry of warrior crowd control in PvP, it's ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.

    You arms warriors managed without Shockwave for long enough, you can manage once again.
    We used to have Throwdown.
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  15. #75
    The Lightbringer Lovestar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    stuff
    In this assessment, are you talking about tanking current PvE content, or soloing old outdated content?

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Lovestar View Post
    In this assessment, are you talking about tanking current PvE content, or soloing old outdated content?
    Soloing outdated content.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    Take from it what you will - I don't see a reason for me to be biased on this - maybe I am, but I don't really see why I would so /shrug
    I simply found the notion by ghostcrawler more than hilarious. I am well aware of the capabilities but for the same reasons you already mentioned I don't really see how that changes that dks still have a very good soloing spec and have been for quite some time.
    Not even accounting for the fact that warrior soloing wasn't really something noteworthy any time before this addon. Especially not without souldrinker.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    before acquiring a good amount of crit, i'd used impending victory as fury. now i dont even bother to switch out second wind. I have not talented Enraged Regeneration since the Beta.
    Second wind is really situational though. The only encounter I saw it actually heal an amount I'd remotely consider relevant is bladelord whateverhisshittynamewas and this must have been the firstkill. If you want something that actually can occasionally safe you you are probably already better off using enraged regeneration. Increasing the heal and reducing the rage cost would just make second wind next to pointless pve wise which I doubt they want to do.
    Last edited by cFortyfive; 2012-12-23 at 12:46 AM.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Lebonj View Post
    Nail - head.

    About time warriors got some of their control taken off them. Yeah it sucks for PvE and maybe should have just been changed for PvP purposes, but I for one am sick and tired of being stuck in a flurry of warrior crowd control in PvP, it's ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.

    You arms warriors managed without Shockwave for long enough, you can manage once again.
    if you can't deal with a 4 second stun every 20 seconds that is affected by diminishing returns. then i don't know how to help you with the obvious troubles that you have been having against a class that is deemed an easy kill by most other players.

  19. #79
    If you don't play anymore, why do you care?

    Honestly, why?

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Mionelol View Post
    It's not really comparable either way, because DKs have a -10% modifier instead of 25% (Blood Pres vs Defensive Stance) and generally take larger damage through less armor and no blocks. DKs are generally viable through their easier scaling with DPS gear, larger amount of healing cooldowns (<< most important part), and not being forced to be on 35% (<< 2nd most important part). But quite frankly, the passive self-healing/mitigation from Warriors is wayyyyyy over what a DK could dream of.
    The problem is that it's our only selfheal.
    I'd love to have an active selfheal instead of a passive one (seriously, I really loved soloing Lich King and even Magmaw, since I really had to manage healing cooldowns) but we haven't.

    Anyway, the game is not supposed to be balanced for soloing. DKs/Hunters/Warlocks have been very good at this for ages and now that MoP allow other class to be compete they have to nerf it? Does not sound very fair. If soloing old content was really a concern for GC, there would be many more changes that the SW nerf. It's just a lame excuse.
    This nerf is not aimed at pve hl, SW is fine in the current raiding environment. It's really just a pvp nerf.

    Edit: Anyway, even as a solo nerf, it's stupid. Basically, it means that I'll need 50% more hp thant what I currently have. Right now, if I equip tank gear I can still survive to everything I can solo in dps gear, but enrage timers will be a problem. With 5.2 gear, I would be able to kill everything I've already killed. Meanwhile, you'll kill Madness 10HM. Fair enough.
    Last edited by Senen; 2012-12-23 at 12:59 PM.

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