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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by vellar View Post
    Good Ridance, I love it when ppl that can't play unless their class is op whine. Also if you had any clue how to play your class you'd have found what I found with high skill cap warrior awesome in cata.
    high skill cap?lmfao like wow is a skill game .i guess you are the only warrior in the world that took the worst pvp class in game" warrior" and made then rank #1 in cata. you are the best warrior to ever play wow,if you played that well back in cata,now you must be undefeated in both arena and rbgs,right?could you link your armory for me so i can see how the #1 ranked warrior gems and the comps you play

  2. #102
    Mechagnome Sweetz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whoranzone View Post
    Well glad that I will never have to justify again not picking shockwave.

    Yeah it was too good for dueling in front of [insert faction capital].


    I am honestly astonished that recklessness is still usable with another avatar and banner. Probably just missed that.
    Second Wind actively makes you invulnerable towards Affliction Warlocks. You WILL passively outheal their damage once you go below 35%. Does that seem right to you? Remembering ofcourse that he can teleport away from you, which you can then charge, and then he can grab his gate when you can then heroic leap. Then he can death coil you which, nvm he doesn't have death coil anymore, then he can fear you which nvm berserker rage. Np he'll just bend over harder than ever. Warriors have always been a warlock's nightmare, but killing them used to be a possibility. It is no more.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Grievuuz View Post
    Pretty sure that's what hamstring was meant for. And I'd like to take up the role as Cpt. Obvious here, and point out that Shockwave was meant for prot pve, not as a ''LOLICANLOCKPEOPLEDOWNBETTERTHANAROGUE'' ability.

    Warriors were nerfed because:

    They had superior survivability - SWall/Rallying Cry/2nd wind/spell reflect/die by the sword - 2nd wind as a standalone tool is not OP. (Not now that people are geared anyway.)
    They had superior damage/burst - CD stacking, 4-5 stack TfB, 1shot macros. (And random 1 shots because TfB is RNG based.)
    They had superior lockdown and gap closing - AoE fear/any t1 and t3 talent/Shockwave. Warriors > Rogues for locking down a target these days.

    While I don't agree to all the nerfs, most of them are completely justified.

    "Pretty sure that's what hamstring was meant for"


    is that right wise ass?i thought hamstring was nerfed,but i guess you know it all.but then again does hamstring still have it root?o wait it was nerfed like i fuckign said.HS was nerfed because warriors could take shock wave.i guess you like having the weakest slow in game that requires melee and take a .05 global to use?

    im glad you said 2nd wind was not OP'ed ,just like i said right?there fore it should not have been nerfed.i find it funny that you say 2nd wind was not op'ed but combind with things like Spell refect it was,lmfao nice try.


    [Infracted]
    Last edited by Radux; 2012-12-28 at 09:32 PM.

  4. #104
    I think it's a shame for prot-warriors in pve, since it's good talents there, and warriors isn't in such a good place as tanks atm, but people saying it didn't matter in pvp, really are clueless about their own class :P
    Getting charged and shockwaved and hear "lolol U suck 'cus u no move" is honestly just stupid. It's not really possible to avoid shockwave unless you can kite them, which isn't exactly easy.

    It's not even adressing their burst. Just giving them a tad less control, but they still have it more often than most others.
    The nerf to second wind might be a problem, when people begin to get better gear, but not much more health. Probably rendering it next to useless. Don't think it's a good change in the long run.
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  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetz View Post
    Second Wind actively makes you invulnerable towards Affliction Warlocks. You WILL passively outheal their damage once you go below 35%. Does that seem right to you? Remembering ofcourse that he can teleport away from you, which you can then charge, and then he can grab his gate when you can then heroic leap. Then he can death coil you which, nvm he doesn't have death coil anymore, then he can fear you which nvm berserker rage. Np he'll just bend over harder than ever. Warriors have always been a warlock's nightmare, but killing them used to be a possibility. It is no more.
    yeah locks have no burst at all right?locks are having a hard time dpsing in pve and pvp right?good rbgs teams do not stack 2 locks because they lack dps.its not ok for warriors to counter locks buts its ok for mages to counter warriors?

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-27 at 10:48 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Madmajix View Post
    Agreed. I'm pretty sure the nerfs are not gonna kill the class 1% less heal and a 20 sec CD on an OP stun seems legit to me.
    does the - healing debuff still effect 2nd wind after these changes?if it does like it does now,2nd wind will heal for less then 2%.but what ever its ok for warriors to be nerfed right?warriors scale best with gear right?o wait rage has been normalized so we scale the same as other classes now.its ok for to nerf 2nd wind because warriors are not supposed to heal,but neither are mages,and locks,but thats ok because mages and locks need help.

  6. #106
    I have no problems with this.

    Shockwave on a single target is like the concussive blow we once had. 40 second cooldown stun is pretty good especially if you can get it's cd reduced. A stun is incredibly powerful in both pvp and pve so since you are gonna be using it for something specific, it doesn't really matter that much if the cd is longer since you were probably wasting it's potential if you were using it whenever it comes off CD.

    Second Wind i believe the regen and rage gen from being stuck in a stun is removed. Especially as gear scaled or while under the effects of certain buffs like stamina ones the heal becomes pretty powerful. With many classes having some sort of stun that is gonna be used it gives the warrior a lot of healing. Hard to put any real thoughts into it but it really does feel that an offensive combo ends up doing almost nothing because of the healing of second win that takes place. So either you don't use your combo vs the warrior and be very ineffective or you do use it but it's very ineffective because of the healing it provides.
    Not having rage gen just makes stances more important. Just like you would choose to be prepared to sword and board in defensive stance if you're gonna get trained, you can choose to be prepared to unload a lot of damage if you allow yourself to get trained while in beserker stance.

    I do really like the second wind talent and the healing it provides is very nice and does fit the warrior. So maybe giving it an ICD or somehow making it into an activated talent can be good.

    10% hp + 1% hp every second for 10 seconds, 1 minute cooldown, can only be used while stunned.

  7. #107
    Hahahaha so fking justified. Finally I might be able to kill a warrior or his partner.

  8. #108
    Titan Synthaxx's Avatar
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    Honestly, it's about time. I want every class to be competitive. Competitive, but balanced. The healing from second wind wasn't balanced around other classes. It was balanced around PVE (and even then, only loosely so). It became the go-to talent because of how ridiculously overpowered it was. It was a combination of both the amount healed, and the tick interval. If it had been 1.5% every 0.5 seconds though, it would have been even more powerful (for the simple reason you'd be able to negate a lot of the damage dealt to you due to cast and swing times. As an ability hits you, you get a tick from SW, and you'd taken some of the edge off the attack.

    If it had been 6% every 2 seconds, you'd be more prone to extreme burst, but the amount of burst required isn't something that many specs can achieve (and those that can also need to be brought in line). At 3% every second, it was the most balanced solution, but the ability itself wasn't in line with other specs. Reducing the amount healed goes some way to fixing it, but i feel that it's not brought PVE into consideration. It wasn't about making Warriors a free kill again, it's about making sure they're not over-the-top ridiculous to face as other specs, regardless of the spec you are. It was the whole healing on top of the damage and CC they got that made them rather annoying to face.

    Personally, i still stand by the ideal that skills should work differently in PVE compared to PVP. It's the only way we're ever gonna reach a happy medium. It's been a problem since TBC (i don't know about vanilla, i only started playing in early TBC). We've gotten a few "doesn't work against players" or "reduced effect against players" abilities, but not nearly. Whether people could adapt to such a change being applied to every relevant ability is another story.

    Quote Originally Posted by meathead View Post
    high skill cap?lmfao like wow is a skill game .i guess you are the only warrior in the world that took the worst pvp class in game" warrior" and made then rank #1 in cata. you are the best warrior to ever play wow,if you played that well back in cata,now you must be undefeated in both arena and rbgs,right?could you link your armory for me so i can see how the #1 ranked warrior gems and the comps you play
    These sorts of posts are of no benefit to anyone. Everything requires some level of skill. If it didn't, everyone in the world would be equal in every single way and things would be very boring. Even WoW requires some skill. Quick thinking and quick reactions are both useful skills, but they also happen to be the skills required to play at the high end in WoW. If you have neither of these, you stand in the fire. If you have quick thinking but slow reactions, you stand in the fire, but you move out after a short while. If you have quick reactions but slow thinking, you move out as soon as you notice it. For PVP, it requires the same skills, but also requires that you can adapt many times and irregular intervals in order to beat your opponent.

    To put some perspective on it, most FPS require the same skills, but there's less to manage. It's more about what weapon you use, any attachments, and the way you fire (along with accuracy) than about knowing what skill is suitable for a specific situation. RTS require the same skills, but it's closer to the MMO model, except instead of choosing 1 ability, you choose potentially multiple units with different abilities to counter an enemy.

    So, yes, WoW (and almost all games) require skills of some sort. People who say otherwise are generally the sort who use the "I don't care" excuse/attitude as their reasons for not being in a raiding guild, and/or for being stuck at 1550 rating. I'm not directing that specifically at you (and i'm not saying you're in either of those situations), but at everyone who uses the "gaming doesn't require skill" line.
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  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetz View Post
    Second Wind actively makes you invulnerable towards Affliction Warlocks. You WILL passively outheal their damage once you go below 35%. Does that seem right to you? Remembering ofcourse that he can teleport away from you, which you can then charge, and then he can grab his gate when you can then heroic leap. Then he can death coil you which, nvm he doesn't have death coil anymore, then he can fear you which nvm berserker rage. Np he'll just bend over harder than ever. Warriors have always been a warlock's nightmare, but killing them used to be a possibility. It is no more.
    Even if I'd pretend for one second here to care the slightest bit about duels or 1on1 situations and viability of every single spec in every situation you can find yourself in - you want to tell me that the class with undoubtedly the highest dps can't reach more than 12k on a single target ? That certainly sounds legit. But well again what am I even saying - 1on1.
    Quote Originally Posted by Synthaxx View Post
    So, yes, WoW (and almost all games) require skills of some sort. People who say otherwise are generally the sort who use the "I don't care" excuse/attitude as their reasons for not being in a raiding guild, and/or for being stuck at 1550 rating. I'm not directing that specifically at you (and i'm not saying you're in either of those situations), but at everyone who uses the "gaming doesn't require skill" line.
    It's not gaming in general - it's wow. Even a retarded monkey could play lsd on cyclone to 2400 just as an example during the last seasons of wotlk. The skill cap is just terribly low regarding pvp - mostly because of balance issues but also of course due to the general ability of the population playing wow. Not to say that there aren't people playing who have a certain amount of talent but those are quite rare.
    Last edited by cFortyfive; 2012-12-27 at 05:37 PM.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Synthaxx View Post
    Honestly, it's about time. I want every class to be competitive. Competitive, but balanced. The healing from second wind wasn't balanced around other classes. It was balanced around PVE (and even then, only loosely so). It became the go-to talent because of how ridiculously overpowered it was. It was a combination of both the amount healed, and the tick interval. If it had been 1.5% every 0.5 seconds though, it would have been even more powerful (for the simple reason you'd be able to negate a lot of the damage dealt to you due to cast and swing times. As an ability hits you, you get a tick from SW, and you'd taken some of the edge off the attack.

    If it had been 6% every 2 seconds, you'd be more prone to extreme burst, but the amount of burst required isn't something that many specs can achieve (and those that can also need to be brought in line). At 3% every second, it was the most balanced solution, but the ability itself wasn't in line with other specs. Reducing the amount healed goes some way to fixing it, but i feel that it's not brought PVE into consideration. It wasn't about making Warriors a free kill again, it's about making sure they're not over-the-top ridiculous to face as other specs, regardless of the spec you are. It was the whole healing on top of the damage and CC they got that made them rather annoying to face.

    Personally, i still stand by the ideal that skills should work differently in PVE compared to PVP. It's the only way we're ever gonna reach a happy medium. It's been a problem since TBC (i don't know about vanilla, i only started playing in early TBC). We've gotten a few "doesn't work against players" or "reduced effect against players" abilities, but not nearly. Whether people could adapt to such a change being applied to every relevant ability is another story.



    These sorts of posts are of no benefit to anyone. Everything requires some level of skill. If it didn't, everyone in the world would be equal in every single way and things would be very boring. Even WoW requires some skill. Quick thinking and quick reactions are both useful skills, but they also happen to be the skills required to play at the high end in WoW. If you have neither of these, you stand in the fire. If you have quick thinking but slow reactions, you stand in the fire, but you move out after a short while. If you have quick reactions but slow thinking, you move out as soon as you notice it. For PVP, it requires the same skills, but also requires that you can adapt many times and irregular intervals in order to beat your opponent.

    To put some perspective on it, most FPS require the same skills, but there's less to manage. It's more about what weapon you use, any attachments, and the way you fire (along with accuracy) than about knowing what skill is suitable for a specific situation. RTS require the same skills, but it's closer to the MMO model, except instead of choosing 1 ability, you choose potentially multiple units with different abilities to counter an enemy.

    So, yes, WoW (and almost all games) require skills of some sort. People who say otherwise are generally the sort who use the "I don't care" excuse/attitude as their reasons for not being in a raiding guild, and/or for being stuck at 1550 rating. I'm not directing that specifically at you (and i'm not saying you're in either of those situations), but at everyone who uses the "gaming doesn't require skill" line.
    i know that post does not added to much to the topic.i was responding to a dumb asses dumb ass post.see how that works?as for skill in wow,its very little,you need more game knowledge then "skill".the hardest part about playing a class like a warrior " and yes i still think they are one of the harder classes to play" is the fact you need to be a pro at macros.as a warrior you need a macro for fuckign everything,its use to be even worse when stance dancing was around.thats not fun or good game design.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-27 at 04:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by LKPVmnjler View Post
    I have no problems with this.

    Shockwave on a single target is like the concussive blow we once had. 40 second cooldown stun is pretty good especially if you can get it's cd reduced. A stun is incredibly powerful in both pvp and pve so since you are gonna be using it for something specific, it doesn't really matter that much if the cd is longer since you were probably wasting it's potential if you were using it whenever it comes off CD.

    Second Wind i believe the regen and rage gen from being stuck in a stun is removed. Especially as gear scaled or while under the effects of certain buffs like stamina ones the heal becomes pretty powerful. With many classes having some sort of stun that is gonna be used it gives the warrior a lot of healing. Hard to put any real thoughts into it but it really does feel that an offensive combo ends up doing almost nothing because of the healing of second win that takes place. So either you don't use your combo vs the warrior and be very ineffective or you do use it but it's very ineffective because of the healing it provides.
    Not having rage gen just makes stances more important. Just like you would choose to be prepared to sword and board in defensive stance if you're gonna get trained, you can choose to be prepared to unload a lot of damage if you allow yourself to get trained while in beserker stance.

    I do really like the second wind talent and the healing it provides is very nice and does fit the warrior. So maybe giving it an ICD or somehow making it into an activated talent can be good.

    10% hp + 1% hp every second for 10 seconds, 1 minute cooldown, can only be used while stunned.
    "Shockwave on a single target is like the concussive blow we once had".

    that makes no since at all. "concussive blow" has nothing to do with shock wave,prot had both in cata,remember?now we get fucked over and can only have shock wave "if we talent it",while at the same time losing heroic throw silence.how you think thats a good thing is beyond me.

    again if you had problems killing a warrior with 2nd wind up you are a bad pvper.go to arena junkies and watch some top ranked pvper play.who can see for yourself is not hard at all to kill a warrior.warriors are not 1 vs2 or 1 vs 3 any good teams,your crazy if you think other wise.

    "10% hp + 1% hp every second for 10 seconds, 1 minute cooldown, can only be used while stunned."

    lmfao can only be used while stuned.i know you hate warriors and 2nd wind but you got to do better then that if you want to try and talk shit.its easy to see what your trying to do,its rhymes with bowl.

  11. #111
    Shockwave nerf was comin from a mile away, tbh we should just get the opportunity to have throwdown back.

    Second wind nerf is whatever, with mortal wounds on the warrior its going to be 1.5% hp every second, enough to give the warrior an edge, I like it like that and I will continue to use second wind because of the edge it gives.

    I can tell they are going to nerf our burst in some way, which is fine, the problem is that warriors possess alot more DPS CDs then ever before, i remember when reck was our only DPS CD, and in a way it should stay like that.

    Warriors were always about high damage instant attacks, we had extremely powerful sustain but sacrificed CC and burst for it (compared to other classes, although we still had great burst), the problem was that they gave us so much CC by giving us shockwave and reducing our fear CD and even gag order (when it was around).

    Alot of warriors seem upset about these changes we have coming for us in 5.2, did you guys even read the damage buff to arms?
    Slam will now do 220% weapon damage AND the change to tfb? Those two changes are EXTREMELY good, it increases our sustained damage by so much, able to pool overpowers for bursting and such? FREE damage.

    If you have played a warrior in the past you should be used to having poor self healing and less CC then most other classes.
    And yes, expect a nerf to warrior burst, i would be suprised if they did not touch our burst.

    Be the fuck glad they did not nerf our mobility. If they do end up pulling a cataclysm and our class goes to shit in the final patch, then good, ill be glad to see all the cry babies reroll while i will continue to smash on my warrior regardless of their state.

    5.2 looks fine for warriors i would bet any amount of money that we wont go to shit at all this expansion, we have only been underpowered for 2 total seasons and have usually been a top tier DPS in pve.

  12. #112
    They are going to be fine. Just take Enrage-regen and Stormbolt. In 3s you already to plenty of dmg so the ability to stay on the target is all that matters. These changes won't effect anything, but the fotm oneshotlolers.


    Oh and the new changes just allow you to stay in perma def stance. Burst will be a little less, but honestly the burst we had was overkill anyway. Setting up a proper kill is still possible.

  13. #113
    Are warriors getting nerfed in mop? how are they in this xpac?

  14. #114
    I don't PvP and it really pisses me off that they make the changes to quiet the pvpers down while killing it for us in PVE. This is why i have hated arena since day 1.

    The Shockwave Nerf really bugs me.

  15. #115
    Oh come on warriors don't be ridiculous you were over the top in damage and in mobility. Yesterday I, as an MM hunter, kited a warrior across the whole SotA map for like a min. Eventually I ran out of cds and he got on me for 3s and I died. Survivability is ridiculous, mobility is ridiculous and damage is too. Hate on it all you want the good warriors know I'm right.
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  16. #116
    Pit Lord Asmodias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightstalker View Post
    Thank you idiotic developers. Instead of nerfing it for PvP alone. Oh no guess what, we are to lazy so just change it in general.....
    It's the same spell/ability used for PvP and PvE. Sadly, a nerf is going to hurt both sides of it. This is due to the way Blizzard designed the PvP system. If we had a system like Guild Wars (where PvP is entirely separated and used two distinct versions of the spells/abilities) then your statement would be correct.


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  17. #117
    Brewmaster Orangetai420's Avatar
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    Shockwave change should be: If shockwave hits an enemy player, the cooldown is increased to 40 seconds.

  18. #118
    Bloodsail Admiral Imbashiethz's Avatar
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    Probably the most justified nerfs the game has ever had.

  19. #119
    High Overlord Nalloa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovestar View Post
    Yeah, well Shockwave was mediocre for that anyway, IMO.

    The thing is, Prot's AoE is abysmal. It holds threat, but it sucks from a play perspective. It consists of:
    - Spam Thunder Clap on cooldown
    - hope you talented Shockwave

    But I didn't mind that much compared to the nutter amusement of Blood's completely lunatic AoE, or Paladin's always-something-to-press, or Brewmaster's pyromaniac firestorms + lolspinning, or... whatever bears do, since I want to be a soldier, not a glorified Hunter Tenacity pet — Anyway I didn't mind Prot's simplistic AoE because Shockwave is just badass.

    Put another way: Shockwave is obviously overpowered in the sense of being an extremely versatile, infinitely-scaling 4-second stun. But it's really fun to line it up spatially, as well as the ability to use it for both small, but nasty pulls as well as massive swarms. In a lot of ways, Shockwave's ability to serve so many purposes helps compensate Prot's otherwise "lol Thunder Clap" play. The damage is whatever, it's the really firm sense of control it lends to Prot Warrior trashing.

    So, yes, I admit I'm throwing a bit of a tantrum here because I've loved the ability forever and I don't want it weighed down with an awful mechanic like this. Based on past experience, this is one of those changes that seems innocent on the surface ("Just don't use it on 2 mobs! Whee") but becomes uglier and uglier in practice as you start noticing all the places you're consciously avoiding a button so you don't nerf yourself.

    Not to mention I can already see: "My Shockwave cooldown hit 5 mobs but didn't get reduced." bugs popping up all over because some add is a special butterfly coding-wise or whatever.

    Honestly, I'm usually pretty laid-back about patch changes. But this one rubs me in the most thoroughly wrong way. It's hard to explain. One of those things that seems innocuous, but you just know it's wrong.
    I don't post very often (mostly just lurk) but I wanted to say that this is quite possibly my favorite post on MMO-Champ this entire year. Sums up my feelings on the matter entirely and wasn't said with rage words, etc.
    BrM Monk (Main): Ruktion
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  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Gotjuice View Post
    Oh come on warriors don't be ridiculous you were over the top in damage and in mobility. Yesterday I, as an MM hunter, kited a warrior across the whole SotA map for like a min. Eventually I ran out of cds and he got on me for 3s and I died. Survivability is ridiculous, mobility is ridiculous and damage is too. Hate on it all you want the good warriors know I'm right.
    Let me turn that around. You kited a warrior across SotA for like a minute, he never managed to catch up to kill you. But finally after all that effort when he did catch up and you died you are upset about it?

    Listen I agree. Warrior nerfs are both needed and warranted. But the nerfs should not be in the control or mobility. The nerf should be in the burst. You said it in your post. He killed you in 3 seconds. And that is wrong I agree.

    What 95% of warriors dislike is not that we are getting nerfed. It is that we are getting nerfed on control.

    The thing about burst nerfs. Even if they nerf your burst. If you can stay alive and you can control your opponent you will find new ways to play your class and win.

    But if you are a one trick pony burst machine glass cannon your gameplay gets reduced to ...Burst and Win. If burst fails you lose. Most of us don't really see that as satisfying gameplay.

    And anyways. These nerfs are an overkill now. I understand that due to emotional reasons people are all in it for now. But once they break us like in Cata it will be very hard to bring the class back.

    It's just one of those things. People just hate losing to warriors.

    P.S. Enraged Regen is still absolute shit. The cooldown on it is way to long for the amount it heals.
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