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  1. #241
    Stood in the Fire PhillieB's Avatar
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    Nothing much in there for Holy priests which makes me a sad panda, some ideas to balance the mana game (obviously not all for holy) thoughts?

    General:

    *Lessen the restriction of shackle to make in closer to a spammable cc like poly or cyclone
    *Glyph of Prayer of Healing: Makes a PoH a smart heal but increases mana cost by 20%

    Disc:

    * Increase all spell costs by 10% after SS is used.

    Holy Exclusive:

    * Give inner focus to Holy Priests
    * Return Prayer of Spirit make it a holy priest exclusive self buff
    * Glyph of Twin Wills: Allows inner will and inner fire to be present at the same time but makes you take 10% increased physical damage.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by nobodysbaby View Post

    I would like to see something like the old Inspiration, or a remade version with +% healing taken.
    Dirty thief! I suggested this on your Twitter ;-)

  3. #243
    And I suggested it aswell V! I thought you saw it on some other forums! I also suggested it in a tweet; https://twitter.com/Nobodysblondie Many seem to like the idea to bring back Inspiration, and i am sure were not the only ones thinking about just that.

    I also think they should defenitly play around with HoH for Holy.

    Oh, and Edit; I saw a very nice suggestion (and this has been suggested before as well), make Sanctuary increase healing taken by the priest or everyone by x%.
    Last edited by nobodysbaby; 2012-12-31 at 01:01 PM.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by HamSandwichFace View Post
    It must be hard accepting the fact that Disc is OP in PvE and not actually as bad as people make it out to be in PvP too.

    I guess facts are slapping people around left, right and centre.

    What's worse: a person throwing around a blanket statement saying 'Disc has the worst CC of any healer' or the person actually pointing out that, factually, that isn't the case?
    It's quite easy to argue that scream & psyfiend is worse for cc than leg sweep, paralysis and an interrupt combined with superior mobility. That mistweavers are shit in pvp, just like discs, doesn't mean that either are in a fine spot. You speak of 'facts' and 'factually' a lot, learn what this means since you've yet to prove anything at all.

  5. #245
    Some more ideas for Holy:

    - Increase the effect of Holy Mastery on PoH and level 90 spells by 10%
    - Allow PoH to refresh Renew in Sanctuary Chakra
    - Allow level 90 spells to refresh Renew in any Chakra
    - Allow Smite to refresh the duration of Renew on all players within 30 yards of the target while in Chastise Chakra
    - Holy Inspiration: While under the effect of your Renew spell the player takes 10% decreased damage and healing received by the Priest is increased by 10%

    New Holy Spell:

    Holy Renewal (Instant Cast, 1min. Cooldown) - Instantly heals all players affected by Renew for the remaining amount on their Renew + 10%, this consumes the Renew effect.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Vexxie View Post
    Someone is living in a dream world. In top 50 guilds this is not the case and you most certainly can't afford to carry people, end of story. When you break into the top 50-100 then it's a different story and you will see dead weight far more.

    I dislike the fact you made a comment like that. It's a biased opinion, not a fact. In this case, the people in question are far from idiotic. If you didn't like the direction of the thread you should have locked it, not post a your non constructive opinion on the matter.

    http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overa...00000000111111
    For those that couldn't be bothered to look it up.
    If you think the only thing that makes a DPS good is putting up huge numbers (which can often be cheesed to look better when you aren't actually helping you raid with the "extra" DPS) then it actually you who is living in a dream world. Also you completly missed my point. My point was don't "say my guild is ranked xxx I have done xxx heroic raids and have been raiding xxx years. That line of argument will convince no one. Use logic and discuss like adults, prove that you know what you are talking about and people will be more willing to listen to you. It's a pretty easy concept.

    Also I am vaguely astonished that you seem to think no one in top guilds get carried ever.

    Anyways.. less off topic and more actual talking about the patch notes (I know it's difficult because there are so few so far).

  7. #247
    Holy is on par with Pallies, Shammies and Monks. The only true healing classes which need fixing are Disc/Resto Druids.

  8. #248
    Even ghostcrawler agrees that disc is overpowered and the reason none plays holy is because disc is just overpowered. Here are some tweets for reference:

    Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler
    @Zamia74 Buffing Holy to have two overpowered priest specs isn't going to make other healer very happy.
    Greg Street ‏@Ghostcrawler
    @ZionHai I'm saying nerfing Disc back down to a reasonable level well make Holy seem like an alternative once again.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Isheria View Post
    Even ghostcrawler agrees that disc is overpowered and the reason none plays holy is because disc is just overpowered. Here are some tweets for reference:
    Then why isn't Disc getting nerfed?

  10. #250
    Because these are initial patch notes and you should calm down, they gonna get changed countless times probably before 5.2 goes live.

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Isheria View Post
    Because these are initial patch notes and you should calm down, they gonna get changed countless times probably before 5.2 goes live.
    Normally it's better (at the start of the notes) to overnerf something and see how it does and then make adjustments to buff it. That's how it has worked for every healing spec ever since the game went live.

  12. #252
    GC was busy on my Twitter today:

    Quote Originally Posted by Venaliter
    An off the wall thought: if you extend Focused Will to Holy, you could make it restore mana too without wrecking pve?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    I think that would be pretty frustrating for PvP though. How are you supposed to shut down a priest?
    I think this is a fair reply. You could still oom a priest, but it might take longer (that was kinda the point) but you'd have to balance it carefully. You could also try CC'ing the priest, or focusing down a teammate, which Disc would get much lower mana.

    Quote Originally Posted by Venaliter
    @Ghostcrawler @Zamia74 Who says we want Holy to be op? Holy priests would settle for decent regen, HW:Sanc worth casting, and a small perk.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler
    @Venaliter The tweet I was responding to wanted Holy to be brought up to Disc level. Since Disc is (mildly) OP, that would make Holy OP.
    ...And this I don't agree with. I just don't see Holy competing with Disc even if they were in a dead heat, just because Holy can't compete with the sheer usefulness of Absorbs...

  13. #253
    Moderator Rivelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isheria View Post
    Because these are initial patch notes and you should calm down, they gonna get changed countless times probably before 5.2 goes live.
    I've tried to point this out already but people enjoy working out the maths, I suppose, instead of realizing how many times things will be changed before the patch goes live.

    I do speak from experience though. Playing mistweaver monk for the first two months of the expansion and then watching them change the 5.1 patch notes what seemed like ten different times wasn't fun. Everyone would get excited about a good change just to have it reverted or even nerfed after it was "put in". They have to test things out to decide what they need and what they don't need, these notes will change many times.

    I'm hoping for my own sanity that when the patch actually launches it won't be the three major nerfs in one week that I got hit with on my monk.

    I'm in total agreement that SS needs a bit of a nerf, but I agree that everything else is basically balanced around DA and that they couldn't nerf it back down to what it was without killing the spec again. The 30% that DA used to be was the reason I didn't play my priest as my main at the start of this expansion even though it was my co-main for BC and only main for Cataclysm.

    I do hope they buff something for holy though, nerfs to disc wouldn't hurt nearly as much if holy was better. I've always liked holy but I really don't feel like I can play it now because disc is so strong in comparison I'd just be gimping myself.

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Rivellana View Post
    I do hope they buff something for holy though, nerfs to disc wouldn't hurt nearly as much if holy was better. I've always liked holy but I really don't feel like I can play it now because disc is so strong in comparison I'd just be gimping myself.
    Numbers show Holy is as strong as Resto Shaman/Pallies, above Resto Druids and slightly below Mistweavers. Holy is fine compared to every other healer. It's just not fine compared to Disc which is about 20-25% ahead of every other healer.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by HamSandwichFace View Post
    Then why isn't Disc getting nerfed?
    It would make more sense to post this question in an official Blizzard forum where it might get a response from someone who can actually answer it authoritatively.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-31 at 11:40 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Vexxie View Post

    http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overa...00000000111111
    For those that couldn't be bothered to look it up.
    Although the 25HC chart looks interestingly like OP Disc Priest, my server/faction doesn't have a single 25man raiding guild, only 10mans. So I took the same chart and switched it to 10HC and surprise, surprise, Disc priests are right in line with Holy Pallies. Not quite so OP. So if Spirit Shell were fixed so that one PoH cast would max it out, and the duration lasted only long enough to shield 2 groups the 25man chart would look closer on par without cutting 10man at the knees. I'd have Spirit Shell last 6 seconds, but allow the bubble to last for 20, and significantly buff it to cap with one PoH cast. But perhaps one more change would please the non-disc crowd: remove absorbs from combat logs.

  16. #256
    Herald of the Titans Simulacrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivellana View Post
    I'm in total agreement that SS needs a bit of a nerf, but I agree that everything else is basically balanced around DA and that they couldn't nerf it back down to what it was without killing the spec again.
    SS takes several otherwise often extremely difficult to deal with healing problems and literally remove them as issues.

    Massive raid-wide brust damage? Better rotate cooldowns! Nope, disc priest.
    Mehanics that prevent healing? Better avoid damage like bosses and use cooldowns when relevant! Nope, disc priest.
    Mechanics that hit the raid with huge %-health based damage, with static damage mixed in? Better keep people *just* at the required level of health where they're not onesh- oh wait, disc priest. Cooldown on SS? No problem; bring more than one!
    Even max health reduction mechanics are made easier, and are again totally trivialized if they're not raid-wide.

    Add the ability to *stack* shields from multiple priests to that and it just becomes stupid. How are you supposed to design interesting encounters for healers, when any of these mechanics can be completely trivialized by one of them? Do you make them so hard that shields can't trivalize them? If so, what then for someone who doesn't have access to shields? And if you reduce the effectiveness of only shields for a fight like that, won't that have the opposite effect, making disc priests worthless for those fights instead of mandatory?

    That's not even touching the issue of it being competitive HPS, which it shouldn't be anwhere close to. If nothing else, SS (at least as it is now) should dramatically reduce HPS when active, and even then it'd still be overpowered for the reasons above. That it doesn't just adds insult to injury.

    SS doesn't need "a bit of a nerf"; it needs to be removed from the game, or treated as a true raid cooldown, being given at least 3 min CD and having its duration reduced to 10 seconds at most (and maybe remove mana costs from spells when it's active or something, it make it more in line with a true raid cooldown that can be used in any situation).
    Last edited by Simulacrum; 2013-01-01 at 05:09 AM.
    Dr Johnson, they said: “we are delighted to find that you’ve not included any indecent or obscene words in your dictionary.”
    “Ladies, said dr Johnson, “I can congratulate you on being able to look them up.”

  17. #257
    And another GC quote:
    "If it's a percentage, then it scales linearly with Spirit. Disc gets more mana than Holy, but casts PWS, a more expensive spell. "

    I really can't find how disc is getting nerfed. Rapture looks more like a buff due to consistency and with more spirit-heavy gear, discs will regen more and more while the cost of PW:S stays the same. The only real nerf disc is getting is the mastery nerf, which will keep them OP and on top probably, because absorbs will still be too good.

  18. #258
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post

    Also I am vaguely astonished that you seem to think no one in top guilds get carried ever.

    I agree with Vixxxxxxe in away that seems at first, counter-factual, but those being "carried" to end guilds are probably better than a great majority of WoW players.

  19. #259
    On the "lol player in hard core guild is better than player in casual guild" argument, I think I will just leave this here:

    http://maintankadin.failsafedesign.c...php?f=2&t=2959

    Being in a hard core guild just means you have the time and means to do so. Hell, I could be a lot better player than a lot of lolhardcoreplayers, yet I only raid 2 days a week. Why? Well that's my business, not yours, but I'm sure you can think of a reason that will work for you.

    Being in a hard core guild doesn't mean you word is gospel, and it also doesn't mean yo shit don't stank. But truck on like it's a real accomplishment or something.

  20. #260
    Moderator Rivelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cattlehunter View Post
    SS doesn't need "a bit of a nerf"; it needs to be removed from the game, or treated as a true raid cooldown, being given at least 3 min CD and having its duration reduced to 10 seconds at most (and maybe remove mana costs from spells when it's active or something, it make it more in line with a true raid cooldown that can be used in any situation).
    I'm not even sure why they needed to add it, honestly. I healed just fine without it in Cataclysm. Wasn't SS what they added to prevent people from spamming Power Word: Shield? I could definitely see them increasing the cooldown time and decreasing the effectiveness.

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