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  1. #281
    I guarantee you Holy would have better numbers if Disc Priests switched to Holy every other week. Fact is, Holy is fine - it's number look low because the only ones playing it are the LFR champions and the Priests who don't know how to play it well because they've been spoiled by the ease of Discipline.

    Also look at http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overa...00000000111111

    I wasn't joking when I said Mistweaver's got gutted eh? Personally I believe Blizzard balance around 25 man because that's where all of the competition is:

    http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overa...00000000111111

    That looks a lot better balanced and as I said, Holy's numbers would be higher is more Discipline Priests went Holy (and knew how to play it well). Note: as Holy you can't get away with spamming PoH like you can as Disc.
    So now you are chosing what statistics too look at and then add other 'factors' purely because you feel like it? Damn, that seems accurate. I could just as well say that only the players who are truly excellent at holy sticks with the spec since any player who is about as good at both/finds both about as entertaining will be specced disc, hence holy is in fact even lower. The truth is that statistics mean close to nothing (there are sooo many ways to interpret/use them), and if you add your own baseless assumptions to them they are worth even less.

    If you still want to use these statistics, the supposedly 'gutted' mistweaver is still in the middle of the pack in both links. This is hardly what most would consider 'gutted', but I'm glad we've established once more that all you want is for your precious mistweaver to top the healing meter. While the supposedly 'balanced' holy is at 5:th or 6:th place in the links. So priests are considered balanced when they are at the bottom, and mistweavers are considered balanced when they are at the top, did I get that right? Good thing you aren't biased.

    You are allowed to 'personally believe' what you want, but blizzard hasn't stated that they are balancing for 10 or 25 man (even if holy is below average in both sizes according to your precious statistics). It's quite easy to argue that blizzard would balance for 10 man as well, since that's what affects the majority of their playerbase (being a company, wanting to make a profit, you know). It also puts an heavier emphasis on individual skill (while 25 puts an emphasis on coordination) possibly making class changes even more significant in such a setting.

    You can go spam PoH with holy and with disc. You'll see a bit better results with disc but you'll be awful either way, should we balance the game around people being clueless now?

    @Yvaelle, great post.
    Last edited by Cookie; 2013-01-02 at 04:49 PM.

  2. #282
    You are right. The tier's design lends itself to a Disc Priests strength but begs the question - why are they so far ahead on Heroic Garalon compared to Mistweavers/Holy Pallies? Why are they so far ahead on Will of the Emperor?

    The fact is that SS is a game breaking utility tool. Please understand that part of raiding (and the joy I find in it at least) is healing really hard mechanics like F&V. Without a Disc Priest F&V is a really hard thing to heal through (pre-nerf anyway). With a Discipline Priest the fight feels exactly like normal. Considering Vizier was "the overtuned boss" too, Discipline Priests are sort of mandatory at the moment in all tiers of raiding except LFR. It wouldn't be an issue if SS's duration was cut to be minimal so that it could only heal for say half the duration of a skill like F&V but being able to absorb every ounce of damage is just flat out ridiculous. I'd argue more ridiculous than pre 5.1 Mistweavers hitting 170k~ hps on HC Garalon/HC Will of the Emperor.

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by HamSandwichFace View Post
    As I've repeatedly stated in this thread: every healer (apart from Disc Priests) rely on huge amounts of spirit. As I have also stated in this thread, for a Mistweaver to end a fight on 0 mana (using no mana CDs like Tide, HoH, pot etc) you need around 25k~ passive spirit. Do you think 25k passive spirit is going to be reachable in this expansion? It's not.
    You keep repeating this like it's some Gospel truth, or something...so let me ask:

    you obviously don't have 25k spirit. Does this mean you end every fight at negative 100,000 mana or so? Meaning, for the last 2 minutes of a fight, you're totally useless?

    No? OK then, you obviously don't need that much spirit.

  4. #284
    You are right. The tier's design lends itself to a Disc Priests strength but begs the question - why are they so far ahead on Heroic Garalon compared to Mistweavers/Holy Pallies? Why are they so far ahead on Will of the Emperor?
    Because disc has the freedom to heal as much of the incoming damage as they want while every other healer (except paladins to a certain extent) has to 'share' the rest. This was explained in Yvaelle's post (and has been explained to you numerous times before).

    The fact is that SS is a game breaking utility tool. Please understand that part of raiding (and the joy I find in it at least) is healing really hard mechanics like F&V. Without a Disc Priest F&V is a really hard thing to heal through (pre-nerf anyway). With a Discipline Priest the fight feels exactly like normal. Considering Vizier was "the overtuned boss" too, Discipline Priests are sort of mandatory at the moment in all tiers of raiding except LFR. It wouldn't be an issue if SS's duration was cut to be minimal so that it could only heal for say half the duration of a skill like F&V but being able to absorb every ounce of damage is just flat out ridiculous. I'd argue more ridiculous than pre 5.1 Mistweavers hitting 170k~ hps on HC Garalon/HC Will of the Emperor.
    Yes, and this is the reason why disc is OP in the current tier, not the fact that we happen to top the meter (the way absorbs are designed practically ensures this as long as our output is even close to other healers). Being able to ignore/greatly weaken certain boss mechanics is the reason why disc is considered overpowered right now (by players who manage to look past the meter), if this will be the case in the next tier (even without the incoming nerfs) remains to be seen since this depends greatly on how the fights are designed.

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    Because disc has the freedom to heal as much of the incoming damage as they want while every other healer (except paladins to a certain extent) has to 'share' the rest. This was explained in Yvaelle's post (and has been explained to you numerous times before).



    Yes, and this is the reason why disc is OP in the current tier, not the fact that we happen to top the meter (the way absorbs are designed practically ensures this as long as our output is even close to other healers). Being able to ignore/greatly weaken certain boss mechanics is the reason why disc is considered overpowered right now (by players who manage to look past the meter), if this will be the case in the next tier (even without the incoming nerfs) remains to be seen since this depends greatly on how the fights are designed.
    Lei Shin already looks like a fight where you'll be stacking Discipline priests.

    Disc is OP for many reasons - none of which are being addressed in 5.2, and they are:
    - unlimited mana
    - SS is gamebreaking
    - ability to spam PoH without issue (goes back to unlimited mana but it's an issue in itself)

  6. #286
    Ham, I checked your guild logs. Man, you have my sympathy, I can see where the pain is coming from <3.
    "walks away shaking with laughter"

    I'm sorry, I cant help it :<.

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Saphiramoon View Post
    Ham, I checked your guild logs. Man, you have my sympathy, I can see where the pain is coming from <3.
    "walks away shaking with laughter"

    I'm sorry, I cant help it :<.
    3 Discs, 2 Paladins in content we overgear by miles.

    Yeah, it's sucky.

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by HamSandwichFace View Post
    Lei Shin already looks like a fight where you'll be stacking Discipline priests.

    Disc is OP for many reasons - none of which are being addressed in 5.2, and they are:
    - unlimited mana
    - SS is gamebreaking
    - ability to spam PoH without issue (goes back to unlimited mana but it's an issue in itself)
    LOL...ok, really...stop crying.

    Blizzard *is* addressing each and everyone one those issues. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's not even a PTR for 5.2 right as of now.

    Do you ever stop and wonder why people are calling you a troll? Ever? Oh, wait...you're a troll...you don't give a damn.

    Infracted
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2013-01-03 at 03:59 PM.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Spazzeh View Post
    LOL...ok, really...stop crying.

    Blizzard *is* addressing each and everyone one those issues. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's not even a PTR for 5.2 right as of now.

    Do you ever stop and wonder why people are calling you a troll? Ever? Oh, wait...you're a troll...you don't give a damn.
    I showed that even with a Resto Shaman in the raid the Rapture change is a buff. SS will continue to be game breaking. You'll continue to be spamming PoH without a care in the world.

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by HamSandwichFace View Post
    I showed that even with a Resto Shaman in the raid the Rapture change is a buff. SS will continue to be game breaking. You'll continue to be spamming PoH without a care in the world.
    Sure, you showed that the change might not really affect anything.

    You're crying that they're not doing anything about it. In tweaking the Spirit procs and Rapture % ALONE shows that Blizzard sees an issue *somewhere*, whereas you're crying that they're not even touching it.

    SURE, GRANTED, the changes proposed thus far might not fix the "issues," but that's *totally* different than not touching them at all.

    Again, quit your crying.

    Edit: Reminder...no PTR available yet. Many, many, many...MANY(??) more patch notes to come.

    Jesus...effing...Christ.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-02 at 04:24 PM ----------

    Also, Nymzee, why does a Resto Druid constantly beat you on logs? Y'know, since logs are so important and all. Even after you admit that R-Druid is weaker than R-Sham?

    Oh, and the times that your H-Pally beats the D-Priests? What happened then? Guess they're OP too. And I suppose the Monk that also beat you on heals a few times, I guess he was just super lucky.

    Wait, also...what about the Amber-shaper kill where you topped meter? WTF?! MONKS CAN'T DO THAT!

    You're nothing but a meter-Monky (haha, pun intended), and it's very apparent to everyone. You never were ahead, but sometimes it's just better to quit. You're insanely pissed because Disc is strong on a few fights. Jesus, go battle for world peace or something that matters. You've worn out anything useful you had here.

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Spazzeh View Post
    Sure, you showed that the change might not really affect anything.

    You're crying that they're not doing anything about it. In tweaking the Spirit procs and Rapture % ALONE shows that Blizzard sees an issue *somewhere*, whereas you're crying that they're not even touching it.

    SURE, GRANTED, the changes proposed thus far might not fix the "issues," but that's *totally* different than not touching them at all.

    Again, quit your crying.

    Edit: Reminder...no PTR available yet. Many, many, many...MANY(??) more patch notes to come.

    Jesus...effing...Christ.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-02 at 04:24 PM ----------

    Also, Nymzee, why does a Resto Druid constantly beat you on logs? Y'know, since logs are so important and all. Even after you admit that R-Druid is weaker than R-Sham?

    Oh, and the times that your H-Pally beats the D-Priests? What happened then? Guess they're OP too. And I suppose the Monk that also beat you on heals a few times, I guess he was just super lucky.

    Wait, also...what about the Amber-shaper kill where you topped meter? WTF?! MONKS CAN'T DO THAT!

    You're nothing but a meter-Monky (haha, pun intended), and it's very apparent to everyone. You never were ahead, but sometimes it's just better to quit. You're insanely pissed because Disc is strong on a few fights. Jesus, go battle for world peace or something that matters. You've worn out anything useful you had here.
    My Resto Shaman is my alt in 490 ilvl gear and the Druid is in 500+ ilvl and a trial main?

    I topped the meter because I played damn-near perfect. The priests were not.

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by HamSandwichFace View Post
    My Resto Shaman is my alt in 490 ilvl gear and the Druid is in 500+ ilvl and a trial main?

    I topped the meter because I played damn-near perfect. The priests were not.
    That wouldn't cover the 10-25% healing difference you've illustrated time and time again.

    Care to address any of the other points? Or just going to pick out the few you can actually summon a response to, as per usual?

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by HamSandwichFace View Post
    I showed that even with a Resto Shaman in the raid the Rapture change is a buff. SS will continue to be game breaking. You'll continue to be spamming PoH without a care in the world.
    Incorrect. You haven't shown anything, you are simply cherry-picking while entirely ignoring any argument or fact that proves you wrong. It's pathetic and I'm seriously wondering why you aren't banned yet.

  14. #294
    I am Murloc! Thallidomaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    Incorrect. You haven't shown anything, you are simply cherry-picking while entirely ignoring any argument or fact that proves you wrong. It's pathetic and I'm seriously wondering why you aren't banned yet.
    Because he's not breaking any rules.

    On the topic, with the 5.2 PTR live, were there any noticeable changes that were not mentioned in the initial patch notes?

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  15. #295
    How is it cherry picking when you select stats that BiS Priests will have and show it's not a nerf?

    The PTR is up by the way.
    Last edited by HamSandwichFace; 2013-01-02 at 10:47 PM.

  16. #296
    Power Word: Solace works exactly as we assumed, it IS Holy Fire except that now it also returns 1% mana. OH, and unfortunately the cool Holy Fire effect is replaced with the uncool Solace effect. It behaves exactly the same for Atonement Disc Priests except that now your atonement rotation includes mana regen with the old Shadowfiend/HoH mechanic still in place. I can't understand why a Holy Priest would take Solace unless they give Holy Atonement, which seems unlikely. Confirmed, Glyph of Smite works with Solace.
    Last edited by Darkener; 2013-01-03 at 01:00 AM.

  17. #297
    I am Murloc! Volitar's Avatar
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    So now that the PTR is up what are the actual changes (for Shadow!)? A 1second nerf to Body and Soul (Stupid) and a slight buff to Divine Star (again?).

    I know its super early but I hope to see more than this.
    Last edited by Volitar; 2013-01-03 at 08:41 AM.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by Thallidomaniac View Post
    Because he's not breaking any rules.

    On the topic, with the 5.2 PTR live, were there any noticeable changes that were not mentioned in the initial patch notes?
    Ham is trolling and derailing threads constantly, I've seen people getting banned for far less.

    How is it cherry picking when you select stats that BiS Priests will have and show it's not a nerf?

    The PTR is up by the way.
    Are you even trying anymore? Go back and read the responses.

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Volitar View Post
    So now that the PTR is up what are the actual changes (for Shadow!)? A 1second nerf to Body and Soul (Stupid) and a slight buff to Divine Star (again?).

    I know its super early but I hope to see more than this.
    Unfortunately, not much is being said about shadow: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7415463714

    But this ptr isn't even available to us yet. If they can adjust single target dps and long term scaling, while finding a clever solution to the one-dimensional pvp, I might even spec it again.

  20. #300
    Shadow is really good at the moment - where do you think it falls short? It's the 2nd spec for Heroic Elite Protectors and a very desired class on Sha of Fear HC.

    By the way, the SS nerf isn't that great. A friend of mine is 506 ilvl avg was pumping out 80-90k PoHs under SS.

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