Page 42 of 78 FirstFirst ...
32
40
41
42
43
44
52
... LastLast
  1. #821
    Quote Originally Posted by Blachshma View Post
    GC's latest tweet: "@anthony7133 I'm going to predict we'll still see more raiding Disc than Holy, just less extreme than today. We'll see if I'm right."

    If that's the case, would it mean disc will still outperform holy after the nerfs?
    I don't see how this can be so. I think GC's head is up his tushie.

  2. #822
    Holy was outperforming Discipline in all of ICC (exception: Arthas, but not from a numbers standpoint).

    People still favored Discipline because its absorbs made it a feel good spec on meters, and hey what raid doesn't like an extra cushion? It may or may not actually be necessary, and from a numerical standpoint still be theoretically behind in raw output, and the spec will still be the first spec Priests go to when pushing progression.

    Will nerfs push Disc down on meters a bit? Yup. Will they push a fair number of Priests towards Holy, whether it's because they feel they can push higher numbers, or because hey maybe they want a break from Discupline and want to try something new? Of course. Will these nerfs alone break the consensus that the community at large has come to, that even when numerically inferior, absorbs > healing 99.8% of the time, exception made for gimmick encounters? Nope.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  3. #823
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Holy was outperforming Discipline in all of ICC (exception: Arthas, but not from a numbers standpoint).

    People still favored Discipline because its absorbs made it a feel good spec on meters, and hey what raid doesn't like an extra cushion? It may or may not actually be necessary, and from a numerical standpoint still be theoretically behind in raw output, and the spec will still be the first spec Priests go to when pushing progression.

    Will nerfs push Disc down on meters a bit? Yup. Will they push a fair number of Priests towards Holy, whether it's because they feel they can push higher numbers, or because hey maybe they want a break from Discupline and want to try something new? Of course. Will these nerfs alone break the consensus that the community at large has come to, that even when numerically inferior, absorbs > healing 99.8% of the time, exception made for gimmick encounters? Nope.
    Good points there. What I wonder though is whether holy will be viable for heroic progression on tier 15, something that wasn't exactly the case on tier 14 (especially in 10 man). Progressing priests are pretty much forced to go disc nowdays whether they like it or not. I'm afraid the situation will repeat itself on 5.2.

  4. #824
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Disc will be the spec will still be the first spec Priests go to when pushing progression. Will these nerfs alone break the consensus that the community at large has come to, that even when numerically inferior, absorbs > healing 99.8% of the time, exception made for gimmick encounters? Nope.
    I disagree. It could be the way you say, but I suspect when people see how low Disc's AE will be, they will be why bring a Disc? We can get Barrier from a rogue now.

    The only exception may be gimmick fights when Spirit Shell shines. That, I think, is more or less intact.

  5. #825
    Quote Originally Posted by Venaliter View Post
    I disagree. It could be the way you say, but I suspect when people see how low Disc's AE will be, they will be why bring a Disc? We can get Barrier from a rogue now.

    The only exception may be gimmick fights when Spirit Shell shines. That, I think, is more or less intact.
    This is also a pretty bad case. No priest healing spec should be unpresented. I realize a perfect balance and even split between players is impossible to reach, but I think in DS both specs were represented well, holy was better for some fights and disc was at others, but both were viable on ALL fights, even on heroic mode, which is what I would like to see. I wouldn't want to see disc priests forced into holy if they dislike it, the same way I hated watching holys go disc in order to progress heroic mode. With all the nerfs to disc (which are imo not the right way to handle the spec), Blizzard forgot holy (again) and made no changes to it despite plenty of requests on Tweeter and forums.

  6. #826
    High Overlord Ariahna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    115
    Dragon soul was definitely the benchmark for balancing holy and discipline. I really enjoyed playing different specs for different encounters. Honestly the only thing holy is lacking is just a little more regen. I wish the developers would give holy a unique (to the spec) way of returning mana. Disc has rapture tied to a discipline spell, holy should have something tied to one of the holy spells....maybe one they feel is underused, Sanctuary maybe? Add it to sanctuary, serenity, and chastise and maybe make Chakra a little easier to put up with.
    Last edited by Ariahna; 2013-02-03 at 04:26 PM.

  7. #827
    The problem I see is with PoH. It has bad targeting and we have no many-target smartheal to even out healt differences. If we are to be viable in cases of random damage to like three players per group then we will obviously be too strong when all five in a group take damage. One way make this problem less severe is to make us even out the damage over time (-> absorbs), but since we still can't predict random damage and are thus sure to waste some HpS in some cases when balanced around these we will be too strong in others or when balanced around those others we will be too weak in these.

    Having no no more absorb portion on PoH will lead to a greater difference in effective many-target healing we bring depending on the damage distribution of the encounters. Balancing us against other healers just got harder with this change.

    I wish they would at least give us access to the holy version of the divine insight talent to counteract these problems a bit. Our current version is more problematic than helpful as it is mediocre most of the time but has the potential of being too strong in possible future encounters. (As it is basically the possibility to stack even more absorbs on one target at the same time and nothing else.)
    Last edited by Noradin; 2013-02-03 at 05:20 PM.

  8. #828
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariahna View Post
    Dragon soul was definitely the benchmark for balancing holy and discipline. I really enjoyed playing different specs for different encounters. Honestly the only thing holy is lacking is just a little more regen. I wish the developers would give holy a unique (to the spec) way of returning mana. Disc has rapture tied to a discipline spell, holy should have something tied to one of the holy spells....maybe one they feel is underused, Sanctuary maybe? Add it to sanctuary, serenity, and chastise and maybe make Chakra a little easier to put up with.
    Mana regen is the problem, make Rapture and Inner Focus baseline for healing Priests.

  9. #829
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Holy was outperforming Discipline in all of ICC (exception: Arthas, but not from a numbers standpoint).

    People still favored Discipline because its absorbs made it a feel good spec on meters, and hey what raid doesn't like an extra cushion? It may or may not actually be necessary, and from a numerical standpoint still be theoretically behind in raw output, and the spec will still be the first spec Priests go to when pushing progression.

    [...]
    There are 2 changes necessary:

    1) Blizzard must overhaul and redesign discipline to make it less about absorb healing. The design of spirit shell was fatal in this context, a blamage. The new discipline would be more about temporary health increase (a-la shaman) with very little absorb or damage reduction mechanism. This works better with other healers, especially HoT based healers.
    2) It'd be slightly toned down compared to other healers due to its unique function. We can call this the "mitigation tax".

    Therefore players will be able to choose: pure healing (100%) or a healer who is hybrid healer/mitigation (90%). It boils down to Blizzard stopping to 1:1 healing versus mitigation. Note it would NOT surprise me if Blizzard has internal algorithms to math this out internally (even including stuff like direct healing, HoT, etc)! I also do get how this means the mitigation spec isn't going to be good in the hands of a random, average healer (because of mitigation being wasted) but we have "more difficult" specs in Blizzard in other classes, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blachshma View Post
    This is also a pretty bad case. No priest healing spec should be unpresented.
    I agree, but I disagree with the importance. All I feel is compassion for a holy priest forced to play disc don't get me wrong there (been there, done it). But if we have for example a shadow priest who is underperforming and this is their only DPS spec than I find that more important than those specs who have 2 or heck 3 DPS specs or in our unique case more than 1 healing spec. So I find it inherent the balance between the two specs will fluctuate and will not be solved during the current patch due to priorities.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-03 at 07:53 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkener View Post
    Mana regen is the problem, make Rapture and Inner Focus baseline for healing Priests.
    Holy has enough spells. Holy's game is about quickly deciding (with foresight and knowledge of fight as well as about class) which tool to use when for maximum efficiency reactive healing. Neither Rapture nor PW:S fits in this model. Inner Focus is interesting mechanic with DA. Holy has no DA.
    Last edited by lolalola; 2013-02-03 at 06:54 PM.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  10. #830
    giving rapture to all priests would just make the weakened soul problem even more annoying when making a raid with multiple priests.

    if anything, they should tie some form of active regen to the spec defining spells of holy words and penance, scaling the %spirit returns to their respective cooldowns.

  11. #831
    Im still on the give holy archangel bandwagon


    burst healing +25% yes please, not OP really if its only timed for right moments.

    5.2 Disc Priest Guide | Retired(Playing Aion)

  12. #832
    Quote Originally Posted by HolyLathusDisc View Post
    Im still on the give holy archangel bandwagon


    burst healing +25% yes please, not OP really if its only timed for right moments.
    would bring it inline with disc SS. Though I would rather not have something so... boring.

  13. #833
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkener View Post
    Mana regen is the problem, make Rapture and Inner Focus baseline for healing Priests.
    Absolutely hate the idea of Holy getting Rapture.
    Quote Originally Posted by snaxattax View Post
    giving rapture to all priests would just make the weakened soul problem even more annoying when making a raid with multiple priests.
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by snaxattax View Post
    if anything, they should tie some form of active regen to the spec defining spells of holy words and penance, scaling the %spirit returns to their respective cooldowns.
    Holy Concentration! 10% more Spirit regen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blachshma View Post
    This is also a pretty bad case.
    Yes, but sadly it's the logical one. We're actually worse off then Launch, and Disc wasn't viable at Launch.

    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    would bring it inline with disc SS. Though I would rather not have something so... boring.
    I'd take boring over broken anyday!

  14. #834
    Chakra needs to become the mechanic-only type deal that they've been hinting at for a while, and something interesting should be done with HW: Sanc (perhaps something similar as to what we saw in early beta). Otherwise Holy is in a good place aside from possibly needing a slight regen buff.

  15. #835
    Quote Originally Posted by Amnesti View Post
    Chakra needs to become the mechanic-only type deal that they've been hinting at for a while, and something interesting should be done with HW: Sanc (perhaps something similar as to what we saw in early beta). Otherwise Holy is in a good place aside from possibly needing a slight regen buff.
    i've seen lots of hinting from the community but nothing from blizzard about it becoming mechanic only. any source for that? it would make me very happy indeed.
    In fact the only thing I've seen them say about chakra was increasing it from 15% to 25%, which is completely the opposite to what we wanted
    Redsparowe#2548 <Crayola Inc>, Lightbringer EU

  16. #836
    Quote Originally Posted by Redsparowe View Post
    i've seen lots of hinting from the community but nothing from blizzard about it becoming mechanic only. any source for that? it would make me very happy indeed.
    In fact the only thing I've seen them say about chakra was increasing it from 15% to 25%, which is completely the opposite to what we wanted
    I don't know exactly what GC means but:

    "@penanceswow One idea we talk about for future is to have the Chakras be more transformative (like Chastise) and less about passive buffs."

  17. #837
    Sketch of what he could mean

    increases the healing done by AoE healing spells by 25%
    reduces the cooldown of [Circle of Healing] by two seconds
    transforms [Holy Word: Chastise] into Holy Word: Sanctuary (see infobox)
    increases single-target healing spells by 25%
    causes single-target healing spells to refresh the duration of [Renew] on the target
    transforms [Holy Word: Chastise] into Holy Word: Serenity (see infobox)
    increasing the damage of holy and shadow spells by 50%
    granting a 10% chance for [Smite] to reset the cooldown of [Holy Word: Chastise]
    reducing the mana cost of Smite and [Holy Fire] by 90%
    transforming the current Holy Word conferred by other Chakras back to Holy Word: Chastise.
    With perhaps modifications, such as

    * Only partly abolishment of the striked out features (mr Crab said "less about passive buffs" and "be more transformative " or
    * Say an additional new spell from Chakra or
    * The current spells buffed.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  18. #838
    This may just be wishful thinking.

    I interpret it as
    - Keep the old revelations talent, forcing holy words to change by stance.
    - Keep the chakra:serenity renew-refresh.
    - Keep the mana cost reduction in chakra:chastise.
    - Maaaaaaaybe keep the COH cooldown reduction in chakra:sanctuary.
    - Scrap the +healing bonuses in chakra:sanctuary and chakra:serenity.
    - Chakra:Chastise may need a healing penalty and may want to keep the +damage. Trading healing for offence is what it is good for, anyway.
    - Baseline buffs to some spells would be needed to compensate, but that's just a numbers thing.

    Chakra is now not very interesting or even important. We want it to be interesting, but not important, otherwise we just reinstate the problems with the current chakra: being caught off-stance makes you powerless. To make it interesting, we can however add more effects to the chakra system.

    And that's where the core of the "transformations" come in as far as I see it. Why don't we add more effects like the ones we keep? No cost to smite/holy fire is probably the best part of chakra:chastise. The renew refresh part of chakra:serenity isn't that awesome (though useful), but how about allowing all Heal casts to stack but not consume serendipity (saw that one on the us forums, awesome idea)? The CoH cooldown part of chakra:sanctuary is very OP and may not be long for the world where chakra isn't giving HPS boosts - but how about making binding heal heal three targets (obviously for less power)? Effects that change how spells behave. Like glyphs really. Just less... inflexible.

    But yeah, I'm probably just doing wishful thinking here.
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  19. #839
    I think it would be better to have synergies with Chakra rather than passive buffs. My favorite idea for Serenity is to bring back the Guardian Spirit glyph we once had as a Serenity-stance ability, in addition to refreshing renew. Having the ability to Guardian Spirit the tank for 10 seconds every minute was one of the big advantages of a Holy Priest, and we never got anything to compensate our tank healing when we lost it. it would be very easy for Blizzard to implement this, as they already have it developed.

    My idea for Sanctuary Chakra is a bit of a long shot, but I love the idea. When in Sanctuary Chakra our Mastery transforms from Echo of Light into Echo of Mending. Instead of our heals generating a HoT equal to our Mastery, our heals generate an Echo of Mending buff on the target lasting 15 seconds. It is similar to Prayer of Mending except without charges. On incoming damage the Echo of Mending will heal the player. Additional heals will add to the Echo of Mending amount and refresh the duration to 15 seconds. This would play into our burst healing ability, and it would give Holy Priests a way to "prepare" for incoming damage.

  20. #840
    On DP:
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    - We are reverting the change to how Devouring Plague deals damage. It will have more up-front damage in 5.2 as it does in 5.1. We think the more recent nerfs to Shadow healing and Phantasm are more appropriate changes for PvP.
    On PWS & disc
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    We did not make a change to PW:S points nor is there anything in the patch notes or in one of my posts as far as I can recollect.

    I will add that so far on our PTR raid testing, Disc priests are using PW:S along with PoH and not having abnormal HPS or mana problems. Heroic testing will tell more.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •