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  1. #1061
    Brewmaster ramennoodleking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Hey guys:https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler



    Disc priest lost mana drain. Remember when disc priest had mana drain? Cause I don't.....
    Obviously referring to mana burn. No need to impale him for what is clearly a mistake.
    Last edited by ramennoodleking; 2013-02-14 at 04:41 AM.

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  2. #1062
    Stood in the Fire espoire's Avatar
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    So, does anyone know if the +3 sec thing means 1 tick or actually 3 seconds? If it's actually 3 seconds, then with enough haste or mastery we should be able to get endless DoTs. If it's only 1 tick, it'd still be possible in theory, with 53.8% mastery.

    Edit: above math was ignoring procs from Vampiric Touch. Including those, we get a mere 33.33% mastery needed to reach endless DoTs with the 100% crit proc.

  3. #1063
    Quote Originally Posted by Hesp View Post
    As far as Unerring Vision of Lei Shen goes, the value of the trinket is completely dependent on whether Shadow Apparitions cause the dot to update with stats when they extend the duration. If they do update with extensions, then it's actually worse for shadow than for any other dot user since we'll only benefit from it for a few seconds until a Shadow App causes it to refresh without the 100% crit rate. If they don't update dynamically, then expect to see shadow first in line to receive the trinket since it will be right around a 30% dps increase.
    I've already confirmed this earlier in the thread......


    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    I didn't use the trinket. I used one of those lucky doos out in Kung lai that gives you 100% crit and the dot lasted for much longer than 2 mind, but I got the actual dot to have almost a 2min duration lol. If this does work the same way with the trinket, it's going to be very op(once it goes live). We tested lock/sp/boomkin dots, both lock and sp dot took a snapshot of the crit, the boomkins didn't. This will be very interesting if it hits live like this.
    I need to do more tests on weather the SA's update it with trinket procs. If not, if you just get all trinket procs to line up at the start of the fight you are set with never having to refresh your dots again. I dont see how this makes the trinkets bad for us at all.. in fact that is really OP.... specially with mastery stacking that might happen.
    Last edited by Drye; 2013-02-14 at 05:16 AM.

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  4. #1064
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    I need to do more tests on weather the SA's update it with trinket procs. If not, if you just get all trinket procs to line up at the start of the fight you are set with never having to refresh your dots again. I dont see how this makes the trinkets bad for us at all.. in fact that is really OP.... specially with mastery stacking that might happen.
    When he said it would be bad for us I think he was working from the assumption that the Apparitions were going to update the snapshot of our crit value - in which case you could apply the DoT during the crit bonus - have an apparition hit 3 seconds later - and only get 1 critical dot tick before the DoTs crit value was returned to your base crit and not the 100% crit you had applied the DoT as. By contrast, even though Affliction dots don't end up getting extended like ours do via Apparitions - if they cast their dots during the trinket, they would at the very least last the full duration with 100% crit chance. Which, comparatively, would make the trinket worst for us of all DoT classes.

    It's very probably a false assumption though - SA's probably don't update the crit % snapshot - in which case the DoT would maintain 100% crit indefinitely. We could test this as soon as we have the set bonus though using a luckydoo:

    1. apply at 100% crit chance
    2. click off the luckydoo
    3. wait for apparition to extend DoT duration
    4. see if the extended ticks continue to crit 100% of the time

    So long as apparitions don't mess up our crit snapshot, this trinket is way better for us than other DoT classes at least (if not all other casters).
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  5. #1065
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    Hey guys:https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler



    Disc priest lost mana drain. Remember when disc priest had mana drain? Cause I don't.....
    Slight nit pick. While different spells between lock/priest, the result was the same.

  6. #1066
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    It's very probably a false assumption though - SA's probably don't update the crit % snapshot - in which case the DoT would maintain 100% crit indefinitely. We could test this as soon as we have the set bonus though using a luckydoo:

    1. apply at 100% crit chance
    2. click off the luckydoo
    3. wait for apparition to extend DoT duration
    4. see if the extended ticks continue to crit 100% of the time

    So long as apparitions don't mess up our crit snapshot, this trinket is way better for us than other DoT classes at least (if not all other casters).
    This is litterally how I tested it and posted on a previous page >.> I had the sw get up to a 50 second duration that lasted over 5 mins from a single cast... Sw can be on a target indefinitely with a 100% crit buff. The only way this is attainable is from SAs refreshing the dot. So no they do not override the 100% crit.

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  7. #1067
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    This is litterally how I tested it and posted on a previous page >.> I had the sw get up to a 50 second duration that lasted over 5 mins from a single cast... Sw can be on a target indefinitely with a 100% crit buff. The only way this is attainable is from SAs refreshing the dot. So no they do not override the 100% crit.
    Good to know
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  8. #1068
    Yes, it even was pretty easy to assume it from the start. Boomkins current extention was based on the current dots and not on the druid's current stats. Seeing they are using the same word "extending" for our 2p, we could safely assume it worked on the same principle.

  9. #1069
    Quote Originally Posted by Spazzeh View Post
    Slight nit pick. While different spells between lock/priest, the result was the same.

    Not really, which was why priests kept manaburn longer.

  10. #1070
    Could anyone confirm if these maths are correct please?

    Considering: "Volatile Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault – 15% chance on landing harmful spell. 45sec ICD." Aproximating these numbers, I'd say that its uptime is 10/55 = 0.18.
    Considering Int = 1 and Haste = 0.33.

    Then VTSPA: 1,467*1+8,800*0.33*0.18 = 1989.72

    So this 522 trinket is a little bit worse than 502 Heroic Light of the Cosmos, which scores about 2,010 (not considering the VP upgrades).

    Am I right?
    Last edited by Eldarc; 2013-02-14 at 03:35 PM.

  11. #1071
    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    I need to do more tests on weather the SA's update it with trinket procs. If not, if you just get all trinket procs to line up at the start of the fight you are set with never having to refresh your dots again. I dont see how this makes the trinkets bad for us at all.. in fact that is really OP.... specially with mastery stacking that might happen.
    I tested this while naked with only Jade Serpent pots. SAs don't update the value from the increased Int on hit, so I don't see any reason why SP/Haste/Mastery/Crit would update either.

  12. #1072
    Quote Originally Posted by Twintop View Post
    I tested this while naked with only Jade Serpent pots. SAs don't update the value from the increased Int on hit, so I don't see any reason why SP/Haste/Mastery/Crit would update either.
    That makes since. Basically we want lust/trinket procs and pots all at the start to line up then we will have an insane sw/vt going for the whole fight.

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  13. #1073
    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    That makes since. Basically we want lust/trinket procs and pots all at the start to line up then we will have an insane sw/vt going for the whole fight.
    This will make for some ridiculous logs.

  14. #1074
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Does anyone know if the legendary head enchant thing stacks with Lust? It seems dumb if it doesn't.... but if it does, then 25% haste (8085 from gear)* 30% haste (lust)* 30% haste (head thing) = 211% haste (111% on char screen)?

    Which should put us at like Pain+5, VT+4, DP+5.
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  15. #1075
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    I'm implying we lack anything to successfully get away. Which is why frost/shadow is soo strong because of frost peeling, a long with rogue shadow.

    But the nerf to tendrils and psyfiend half the time not even worth using because of DR (and the fact that it never seems to work) plus mind control being useless, plus phantasm being nerfed. We depend on others for any kind of peel.

    Any team with a brain goes straight for the spriest - a target focus spriest is a sitting duck and can't get out our "great" damage which we only have for our lack of peeling.
    One weakness doesn't make our class weak in PvP so I don't know why'd you quote me in the first place.

  16. #1076
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldarc View Post
    Could anyone confirm if these maths are correct please?

    Considering: "Volatile Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault – 15% chance on landing harmful spell. 45sec ICD." Aproximating these numbers, I'd say that its uptime is 10/55 = 0.18.
    Considering Int = 1 and Haste = 0.33.

    Then VTSPA: 1,467*1+8,800*0.33*0.18 = 1989.72

    So this 522 trinket is a little bit worse than 502 Heroic Light of the Cosmos, which scores about 2,010 (not considering the VP upgrades).

    Am I right?
    First of all, 0,33 isn't the statweight I have for haste (the lower this is, the more it favors Cosmos). Secondly, you assume a 100% procrate for hc Light, it does proc from dots but with a 15% proc rate you can hardly assume that it'll proc instantly after coming off the ICD.

    Upgraded hc Light is definitely better than Volatile (even excluding the fact that passive haste is easier to gear around) but I'd go with Volatile over the unupgraded version.

  17. #1077
    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    Secondly, you assume a 100% procrate for hc Light, it does proc from dots but with a 15% proc rate you can hardly assume that it'll proc instantly after coming off the ICD.

    Upgraded hc Light is definitely better than Volatile (even excluding the fact that passive haste is easier to gear around) but I'd go with Volatile over the unupgraded version.
    1- Its proc lasts 10 secs. It has a 45 ICD. So I'd aproximated its uptime to 10/55 secs (55 = 45 ICD + 10 secs more or less to activate the 15% proc). Do you think 55 secs is too much or the opposite?

    2- Why would you go with a worse trinket if you can wear the better one even when unupgraded?

  18. #1078
    Quote Originally Posted by Eldarc View Post
    1- Its proc lasts 10 secs. It has a 45 ICD. So I'd aproximated its uptime to 10/55 secs (55 = 45 ICD + 10 secs more or less to activate the 15% proc). Do you think 55 secs is too much or the opposite?

    2- Why would you go with a worse trinket if you can wear the better one even when unupgraded?
    1.) I think 55 sec is an okayish estimate (I think it should be slightly lower than that though).

    2.) If you use a higher/"normal" statweight for haste (0,33 seems way too low) and don't calculate a 100% proc rate for Light (since it's 15%) Volatile comes out slightly ahead over an unupgraded Light.

  19. #1079
    Quote Originally Posted by Sakamae View Post
    This will make for some ridiculous logs.
    We can only hope.

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  20. #1080
    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    One weakness doesn't make our class weak in PvP so I don't know why'd you quote me in the first place.
    Way to insert your own words and read around mine. Never said they were weak.

    I said our lack of peeling prevents us from getting out our "awesome damage" you imply which pigeons us into teaming up with a frost mage or rogue to get any of our strengths out.

    The sad thing is rogues and frost mages don't need anyone to do this and do comparable damage to us.

    So yea when we get trained, we are pretty much f'ed.

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