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  1. #641
    Am I the only one seriously pissed Priests are gonna suck in 5.2 as well? We still have the very same mana issues, and the very same lack of CC. I had high hopes they were really going to try. They gave us a 10% bump in survivability, made a few glyphs baseline that other classes already have, and that's it?

    Then they went and NERFED our PvP mana regen with the Rapture change to be even lower, and THEN reverted Cyclone's DR and put back in Imp. Counterspell. Meanwhile, P. Terror and Psyfiend share a DR and pretty much every class has fear breaks baseline. I'm sorry, but what?

    The worse part is, you just know they are gonna be like "We think Priests are fine." afterwards.

  2. #642
    I've kinda just lost faith in disc pvp (+I have a resto druid and mw approaching 90:P). On a serious note, I actually think disc is the way healers 'should be' in pvp right now, not an insane amount of cc, with the mana pool actually mattering and I'd love to see every other healer nerfed down to this level as well (rather than disc buffed). Until then disc is complete shit and some band-aid fixes aren't going to change this, simply because we don't bring anything worthwhile that a different healer doesn't, even if our most glaring issues (mana, survivability) are fixed.

  3. #643
    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    On a serious note, I actually think disc is the way healers 'should be' in pvp right now, not an insane amount of cc,
    I'd be okay with this, except for the fear breaks ingame. Priests (all specs) Shamans (all specs) Warriors (all specs) DKs (Talent) Mages (Ice Block) Warlocks (Talent) Monks (Brewmaster, Windwalker) Hunter (Beast Master) Paladin (Divine Shield). Druid/Rogue (Baseline for Humans)

    That's 24 of 33, potentially ALL specs, being immune or countering that fear, meaning they have nearly a 100% uptime on you for over a minute.


    Also, incensed, I made this post on the Official Forums: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...5?page=64#1269
    Last edited by Venaliter; 2013-01-27 at 06:46 AM.

  4. #644
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    I'd really like to see them make some more positive changes for Disc PvP, and Shadow PvE this patch - I made a twitter account just to tweet GC about it, but no response yet, hopefully he gets to it!
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  5. #645
    Quote Originally Posted by Saphiramoon View Post
    Makes you wonder why holy had exclusive Body&Soul for an entire expansion, its because no sane priest would ever use it. And evidently putting a shield on a person that needs it is "mindless bubble", regardless of how good it could be.
    Doubt that blizzard would ever promote shielding for holy. It happened briefly when they decided to not penalize holy for using PWS when they increased the mana cost for disc in february at the beginning of cata and they killed that style quickly.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it was more of a PvP talent back in the days. Some holy PvP priests are using PW:S while some disc priests are using Renew - its a different game than PvE. But yeah, overall B&S is a much more natural disc talent, I also found it pretty funny to see on the holy tree.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-27 at 09:19 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Cookie View Post
    Yep, completely out of context. There's no better alternative than PW:S to save someone who's about to die as holy, never using it as holy is just bad.
    Every heard of Guardian Spirit? I mean, its bugged and all, but it used to save people from near death.

  6. #646
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    I'd really like to see them make some more positive changes for Disc PvP, and Shadow PvE this patch
    We should totally made an online petition. If they can get Obama to respond for a measly 25k replies, I'm sure we could get that recalcitrant crab too. Either way, or go spam mass dispel in Orgrimmar again.

    FOR THE REBELLION! ;-)

  7. #647
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venaliter View Post
    We should totally made an online petition. If they can get Obama to respond for a measly 25k replies, I'm sure we could get that recalcitrant crab too. Either way, or go spam mass dispel in Orgrimmar again.

    FOR THE REBELLION! ;-)
    Hmmmm, maybe we should go over Ghostcrawler's head and get 25k priests to petition Obama for buffs
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  8. #648
    Quote Originally Posted by Blachshma View Post
    Every heard of Guardian Spirit? I mean, its bugged and all, but it used to save people from near death.
    I think I'll pass on using a major tank cd that doesn't work half the time over PW:S (which also gives B&S) in most situations.

  9. #649
    @Yvaelle :> I do like some of the changes you propose, but I don't think DP should become a channel, it would be better in Single target situation, but a 6second channel would not help us at all in multi doting or aoe situation. But the changes on MB and DI would be very interesting, thought I would also add some sort of channel to gain orbs out of combat. And of course a total rework on PI.

    TBH its very shocking to see mages and locks and even monks tweaked so much and SP only had one change on a talent that was total garbage and a DP nerf for pvp. Currently, none of the previous class suffer in single target damage, and they all scale well.

    But I would go even further than your idea of a MB crit giving us 2 orbs(we would be so dependent on it), I would go for a ember-like resource system, we have the mastery that would go very well with it. Lets say you need 20 Shadow fragment to make an orb, one MB would give you 10 fragments and each dot would give 1 fragment per tic, and give double fragment when crit or/and mastery proc. MS would give 5 fragments to compensate:P This would be a decent system and would allow way better scaling with stats.

  10. #650
    Quote Originally Posted by Venaliter View Post
    I'd be okay with this, except for the fear breaks ingame. Priests (all specs) Shamans (all specs) Warriors (all specs) DKs (Talent) Mages (Ice Block) Warlocks (Talent) Monks (Brewmaster, Windwalker) Hunter (Beast Master) Paladin (Divine Shield). Druid/Rogue (Baseline for Humans)

    That's 24 of 33, potentially ALL specs, being immune or countering that fear, meaning they have nearly a 100% uptime on you for over a minute.
    Divine Shield and Ice Block have long CDs.

    You're also not mentioning Will of the Forsaken and trinket.

    Am I the only one seriously pissed Priests are gonna suck in 5.2 as well?
    Honestly? No. I gave up on this expansion. 5.3 will likely have some "game changing technology." But other than that I'm looking more forward to 6.0.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  11. #651
    Quote Originally Posted by Blachshma View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it was more of a PvP talent back in the days. Some holy PvP priests are using PW:S while some disc priests are using Renew - its a different game than PvE. But yeah, overall B&S is a much more natural disc talent, I also found it pretty funny to see on the holy tree.
    It was actually a PvE talent back in the day. Flat out mandatory for ToGC 25 (unless every single non Paladin in your raid was an Engineer), and exceptional utility for half of ICC as well, no other class had an on-demand 60% sprint, let alone one targettable for other people.

    And the reason they gave it to Holy rather than Discipline, was because Discipline had enough reason to ALREADY be casting Power Word: Shield. Between holding onto the 4pc8 (+Spellpower on Shield cast) bonus longer than they should have (seriously, people were failing at math), Borrowed Time, simultaneous Rapture procs, Renewed Hope (-3% damage taken) being based off of Weakened Soul (then later, just a raidwide buff on shield cast).

    Discipline didn't need another reason to cast Power Word: Shield. At all. Not in PvE, not in PvP. It was already doing it a lot. They gave it to Holy to expand Holy's toolkit, to hopefully be a bit more than "Renew, Renew, Renew" or in my case, "Prayer, Prayer, Prayer". A situational tool that isn't used all the time but has a lot of potential, like say a soldering kit, gave a lot more to the spec than just a different colored screwdriver.


    Every heard of Guardian Spirit? I mean, its bugged and all, but it used to save people from near death.
    That's a glyph that should make a comeback, all things considered.
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  12. #652
    I am Murloc! Thallidomaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    It was actually a PvE talent back in the day. Flat out mandatory for ToGC 25 (unless every single non Paladin in your raid was an Engineer), and exceptional utility for half of ICC as well, no other class had an on-demand 60% sprint, let alone one targettable for other people.

    And the reason they gave it to Holy rather than Discipline, was because Discipline had enough reason to ALREADY be casting Power Word: Shield. Between holding onto the 4pc8 (+Spellpower on Shield cast) bonus longer than they should have (seriously, people were failing at math), Borrowed Time, simultaneous Rapture procs, Renewed Hope (-3% damage taken) being based off of Weakened Soul (then later, just a raidwide buff on shield cast).

    Discipline didn't need another reason to cast Power Word: Shield. At all. Not in PvE, not in PvP. It was already doing it a lot. They gave it to Holy to expand Holy's toolkit, to hopefully be a bit more than "Renew, Renew, Renew" or in my case, "Prayer, Prayer, Prayer". A situational tool that isn't used all the time but has a lot of potential, like say a soldering kit, gave a lot more to the spec than just a different colored screwdriver.
    Also back in the day, B&S allowed Holy Priests to dispel one poison effect from themselves with Cure/Abolish Disease, meaning that B&S served PvP purposes too.

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  13. #653
    Quote Originally Posted by Thallidomaniac View Post
    Also back in the day, B&S allowed Holy Priests to dispel one poison effect from themselves with Cure/Abolish Disease, meaning that B&S served PvP purposes too.
    True, and Blessed Resilience prior to being a 3% healing output increase (putting it above Empowered Healing's boost to Flash/Greater) only triggered it's +Heal-to-self after a crit (not 10% HP damage). There were PvP talents, don't get me wrong. But a lot of people just saw "lol pvp talent in the wrong tree" and even years later never really understood why Body and Soul was so much more than that.
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  14. #654
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    True, and Blessed Resilience prior to being a 3% healing output increase (putting it above Empowered Healing's boost to Flash/Greater) only triggered it's +Heal-to-self after a crit (not 10% HP damage). There were PvP talents, don't get me wrong. But a lot of people just saw "lol pvp talent in the wrong tree" and even years later never really understood why Body and Soul was so much more than that.
    R.I.P body and soul.

    /cry

    I did holy pvp as lols in cataclysm and end of wrath. How I missed it... I could troll anyone in a one on one. Problem was mana - spot healing - and the fact you can't live with 2 people pressuring you and in the end it got nerfed.

    /sigh

  15. #655
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Divine Shield and Ice Block have long CDs. & You're also not mentioning Will of the Forsaken and trinket..
    The fact DS and IB have long cds is irrelevant. They are there if they need them. And I did totally forget WotF, which is sad because Venaliter was an undead priest for 5+ years.

  16. #656
    I agree Yvaelle totally with the changes you propose to Shadow gameplay, from my side I would add three more:

    • More power to Lvl 90 talents
    • We should have a passive that regenerates one Shadow Orb out of combat, so we always will have at least one
    • DPS CD – how I miss a juicy button

  17. #657
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    It was actually a PvE talent back in the day. Flat out mandatory for ToGC 25 (unless every single non Paladin in your raid was an Engineer), and exceptional utility for half of ICC as well, no other class had an on-demand 60% sprint, let alone one targettable for other people.

    And the reason they gave it to Holy rather than Discipline, was because Discipline had enough reason to ALREADY be casting Power Word: Shield. Between holding onto the 4pc8 (+Spellpower on Shield cast) bonus longer than they should have (seriously, people were failing at math), Borrowed Time, simultaneous Rapture procs, Renewed Hope (-3% damage taken) being based off of Weakened Soul (then later, just a raidwide buff on shield cast).

    Discipline didn't need another reason to cast Power Word: Shield. At all. Not in PvE, not in PvP. It was already doing it a lot. They gave it to Holy to expand Holy's toolkit, to hopefully be a bit more than "Renew, Renew, Renew" or in my case, "Prayer, Prayer, Prayer". A situational tool that isn't used all the time but has a lot of potential, like say a soldering kit, gave a lot more to the spec than just a different colored screwdriver.


    That's a glyph that should make a comeback, all things considered.
    Hmm...even withougt PW:S, holy has the largest toolkit of all healers. Maybe it was different back in the days, but nowdays renew is barely used in raids.

  18. #658
    Quote Originally Posted by Blachshma View Post
    holy has the largest toolkit of all healers.
    I would argue Holy has the weakest utility of all the healers. I've been arguing for some utility like Ancestral Fortitude. I think a passive that increases healing taken by 3% for 15 sec would fit beautifully. That, Holy Concentration, and Holy Word: Chastise/Chakra tweaks.

  19. #659
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomyzs View Post
    I agree Yvaelle totally with the changes you propose to Shadow gameplay, from my side I would add three more:

    • More power to Lvl 90 talents
    • We should have a passive that regenerates one Shadow Orb out of combat, so we always will have at least one
    • DPS CD – how I miss a juicy button
    I find our level 90 talents are pretty solid, they could be stronger though

    I don't think 1 Orb out of combat would help us much, our resource system is more like Holy Power or Eclipses than Burning Embers or Soul Shards - I think we need a way to regenerate 3 orbs out of combat - or even if Dispersion gave us 3 orbs while we were dispersed (one every 2 seconds for example, so we don't just dispersion and /cancelaura for free orbs and then moan about how we have to disperse offensively - but six seconds of dps-off is always a dps loss).

    I'd really like a burst cooldown again yes I'd suggest Archangel but it wouldn't have any real effect in the current Shadow model - given Mind Blast is a builder not a finisher, and Mind Flay is so weak. Still, Wings would be nice to have on call again (ignoring the glyph because that was an obvious attempt to appease us when they took it away).
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  20. #660
    One thing i wish theyd change about our new single target rotation with insanity.
    As it is now, it's realy beneficial to use 1shadow orb DP rotation, witch in turn makes our single target rotation realy rather clunky.
    Why not adjust, so that insanity scales with the number of Shadow orbs on the DP to make it smoother?

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