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  1. #881
    Quote Originally Posted by lolalola View Post
    Damage control. Hear lots of same criticism, and using authority instead of arguments to refute it or put it on hold (whereas the game isn't on hold except for about 100 top guilds, but the point here is that then the fixes were also already too late).

    Here numbers http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post20085458

    sad panda :<
    Redsparowe#2548 <Crayola Inc>, Lightbringer EU

  2. #882
    GC "we haven't touched PvE damage yet" is to offset the glyph nerf which is 6-7k dps I think that we lost and the DP change reverted. It's not referring to our horrible stat scaling.

  3. #883
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    GC "we haven't touched PvE damage yet" is to offset the glyph nerf which is 6-7k dps I think that we lost and the DP change reverted. It's not referring to our horrible stat scaling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Twintop View Post
    Here's a very simple way to look at the GoMS nerf: assume best case, no DI spec'd, at 25% Haste every Mind Blast cast is instant because of 2 stacks of GoMS, that means we get 3 orbs every 24sec instead of every 26.75sec. Over a 10 minute fight, that means we can cast 25 DPs with the current GoMS and 22.43 DPs without GoMS/changed. The DPS loss you're seeing is the loss of 2-3DPs and 7-9 Mind Blasts.
    yuck, reading and math... so hard.

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  4. #884
    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    yuck, reading and math... so hard.
    I stand corrected.

  5. #885
    To be fair, that doesn't involve the added loss you'll see during movement. I still think it's a decent nerf since it affects pvp way more than pve, but only if they make use of that "space" to buff our pve damage.

  6. #886
    is it me or the new datamined patch notes say that the initial damage of DP is buffed buy a huge margin and dot counterpart is nerfed yet again? isn't this a huge nerf to mastery scaling? i mean, wasn't it shitty enough already?

  7. #887
    The Patient Aica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crudelitas View Post
    is it me or the new datamined patch notes say that the initial damage of DP is buffed buy a huge margin and dot counterpart is nerfed yet again? isn't this a huge nerf to mastery scaling? i mean, wasn't it shitty enough already?
    You have to remember that the previous build had damage spread evenly. This patch is a revert to how it works on live.
    {[( )]}

  8. #888
    Quote Originally Posted by Crudelitas View Post
    is it me or the new datamined patch notes say that the initial damage of DP is buffed buy a huge margin and dot counterpart is nerfed yet again? isn't this a huge nerf to mastery scaling? i mean, wasn't it shitty enough already?
    They have just reverted the DP changes back to where it is on live (5.1) right now, as they announced they would earlier this week.

  9. #889
    Priest
    - We are reverting the change to how Devouring Plague deals damage. It will have more up-front damage in 5.2 as it does in 5.1. We think the more recent nerfs to Shadow healing and Phantasm are more appropriate changes for PvP.
    I bet the new build is just the above mentioned changes being put into the game.

  10. #890
    oh yeah. couldn't figure that out.

  11. #891
    imo, DP is the wrong place to buff Shadow PvE DPS, but I think this is just them following through with what they already have said and is not indicative of the numbers pass GC mentioned.

  12. #892
    Dreadlord Ilir's Avatar
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    Can someone explain the change on DP (no initial base damage or something like that) ? I don't understand it at all u_u
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  13. #893
    20% increase on Mind blast

  14. #894
    Brewmaster Alanar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alcaraz View Post
    20% increase on Mind blast
    wow this is aweomse

    now give us VT on the move!


  15. #895
    Quote Originally Posted by alcaraz View Post
    20% increase on Mind blast
    Nice, but still doesn't scale with Haste or Mastery. We'll be right back here in 5.3.

  16. #896
    Quote Originally Posted by alcaraz View Post
    20% increase on Mind blast
    Source

    Complete quote:

    I may regret this, because I don't know that I can capture every one and we iterate on this stuff really rapidly. We may change a number one day and change it again the next when we look at AE or PvP damage or whatever. If frequent iteration scares you, look away! But in the interest of providing context and helping theorycrafting, I'll give it a go.

    DPS Tuning Adjustments

    - Arms - Increased Deep Wounds by +100%.
    - Balance - Increased Starfire, Wrath and Starsurge by 9%.
    - Mind Blast - Increased Mind Blast by 20%. (Yeah I know you have to stop and cast it modulo procs, but I meant in contrast to Mind Flay which makes you really plant.)
    (I don't understand his quote between brackets.)

    But the reason I am also quoting the Arms and Balance specs (which I normally wouldn't quote since we're priest forum) is those are low DPS specs according to SimC. We are finally getting some recognition here.

    Like Ven says its bandaid though.

    But the DP change to scale better with SP also helps PvE more than it does PvP, because PvE has more SP on gear. Apparently this took 4 months of theorycrafting on his side to figure this one out...
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  17. #897
    Apparently this took 4 months of theorycrafting on his side to figure this one out...
    It'll take him another 4 months to figure out if he just fixed scaling he wouldn't have to buff a single spell every tier by X% to get our dps moderately inline.

  18. #898
    Quote Originally Posted by zito View Post
    It'll take him another 4 months to figure out if he just fixed scaling he wouldn't have to buff a single spell every tier by X% to get our dps moderately inline.
    Sadly yes.

    All scaling issues would be so simply fixed: give priests the ability back that reduce Mind Blast cooldown with haste, then adjust the numbers, and FIXED!

  19. #899
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velerios View Post
    Sadly yes.

    All scaling issues would be so simply fixed: give priests the ability back that reduce Mind Blast cooldown with haste, then adjust the numbers, and FIXED!
    Mind Blast scaling with haste would be a buff to haste scaling yes, but ALL our stats are scaling slower than for any other caster - it wouldn't be enough just to buff mind blast scaling, literally all our stats need better synergy, or we need a spec wide damage buff. The easiest way to do that is to buff Shadowform from 20% bonus Shadow damage to 30%, which would be an 8.33% buff to all our damage, and about the same size buff to all our scale factors.

    This would immediately put us just below the middle of the pack for single target, bring us up to the bottom of par with the other multi-dot specs (we'd still be the worst multi-dot spec, but only marginally so - an acceptable equivalent) - and on fights with 60-90% ToF uptime like Elegon and Will of the Emperor, we'd shine as one of the top DPS for that fight. I think that's a fair and solid position for us to be in, we have a weakness (single target) and a strength (multi-dot with high ToF uptime). Every spec should feel that way, there should be some fights where we go "ugh, Patchwerk? I'll try - but I'll still be on the bottom half of the meter" and others where we go "Yay! Elegon, my time to kick ass!".

    Our single target damage is 11% below median, and 20% below the top end. Our scale factors are 30% below the top end for caster specs and 15% below average. So a buff to Shadowform would not only mean we immediately jump up to 3% below average on single target, and become strong on multi-dot / ToF fights, but our scalng would mostly be fixed as well.

    I should note that in my analysis I found that Elemental is scaling almost as poorly as Shadow, Boomkins are scaling a good bit better - but nothing compared to Destro / Demo which are scaling just above caster average. Frost, Fire, Arcane and Affliction are all scaling equally - all equally AMAZING - 30% higher than Shadow and about 27% higher than Elemental. This means that as we continue to go into future tiers, Shadow and Elemental (in their current states) will not only continue to deal the low-end damage that they do now - but will continue to slip further and further behind (Shadow is already the worst single target spec).

    In terms of Raidbots however - high ToF uptime on a number of fights - or just bringing in adds all fight to cheese the meters - is causing Shadow to appear a good deal stronger than it is (up to 15% stronger). While ToF uptime is a neat mechanic, I don't think anyone likes the idea of a spec being propped up by a single talent.
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  20. #900
    as much as i'd appreciate %30 shadow form bonus damage, how would it help us scale better with secondary stats? as far as i can predict, it'll take us to TBC scaling, which is secondary stats are nearly not necessary, so we should stack SP (int in this case).

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