1. #1181
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebria View Post
    you have a shared cd... now you can use LvB where before you couldn't as you had to wait for FS first
    think out of the box
    Again, if you can't mannage that you can't do both then you are doing it wrong in most cases. I rarely have the issue that I can't do both.

  2. #1182
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarac View Post
    Again, if you can't mannage that you can't do both then you are doing it wrong in most cases. I rarely have the issue that I can't do both.
    Please, enlighten me how you do it on garajal.

  3. #1183
    Field Marshal Shoo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Sofia
    Posts
    70
    Quote Originally Posted by Northy View Post
    As an Ele Sham who arenas (I'm a masochist) I can say..
    Haha exactly, I think only masochists could play PvP as Ele nowadays... Thumbs up!

  4. #1184
    Stood in the Fire shell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    420
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarac View Post
    And for PvP let's be honest, you will won't hit for crap without FS up. You hardly are viable with FS on target, leave alone without...
    Depends. I'm under the impression that most players don't unleash before they LvB in PvP currently. I don't have anything to back that up, its just my observation. Better players will but there are more subpar players than good ones. Subpar players are more likely to stick to a PvE spell priority where Unleashed Elements is not used in a standard rotation. So while I'm operating under this assumption, I'm also under the impression that more will use UE if this change goes through. In which case they won't be losing that much dmg from live to 5.2.

    I'm making broad generalizations about what I think the average ele pvper does but any way people look at it, its still a buff. Will it hit for crap dmg, yeah, but before it was a pile-o'-crap and now its upgraded to just crap. We're not viable on live but depending on the buffs we get, we might be able to put enough pressure on an enemy player to get them to play defensively. It's all hypothetical until we see what those numbers are and whether LvB will scale with crit.
    These words in my mouth... where did they come from? I don't think I'm the one that put them there...

  5. #1185
    I welcome this change but it doesn't seem like enough.

    It may be my ignorance but I don't know of many other classes that have this sort of problem target switching.
    Enhancement use to have this problem but now they completely wiped it (save for the Stormstrike debuff but it's minuscule) yet they still penalize Elemental.

    It just feels like a half-hearted attempt. I get that they want us to have Flame Shock still be necessary but the Lava Surge talent will always be enough to want to cast it.

    They really ought to remove the dependency from Flame Shock.

  6. #1186
    We don't have enough information to know if this has any impact in PVE or not. Though reading what is actually said they seem to imply that they view this as a damage increase, not a nerf.

    "Elemental's PvE damage will still be lower than we want after this change"
    This was stated right after announcing the Lava Burst change. This wouldn't make any sense if they intended this to net lower Lava Burst with no increase to go with it. Merely that they don't think it is enough to fix us completely.

    This change is exactly the direction we want to go with Lava Burst. Making it more like Chaos Bolt (and making it easier for them to make the damage scale with our critical strike rating) will favorably impact our stat scaling, and make our best cooldown, Ascendance, actually benefit from all of our stats. It isn't clear if that is included in this or not, but anyone assuming this will be a net decrease is looking for something to be unhappy about. The only numbers included in the post are speaking about relative damage (2.5:1 vs. 1.5:1 with respect to w/ Flame vs. no-Flame Shock.)

    The change to needing Flame Shock on the target is mostly a PVP change, making is so you don't lose as much damage if your Flame Shock is dispelled while casting your Lava Burst, it won't have any notable impact on PVE, as we'll of course want to have FS up before casting it, which they stated they want to see continue. There is no reason to assume the total damage with Flame Shock up should be any different than on Live given what was actually said.

  7. #1187
    Not sure what to make of the flame shock + lava burst proposed change at this time. Part of me simply wonders at this point "why not just remove the shared CD between the shocks" to help smooth things out rotation wise. I suppose it would make playing the spec more mongoloid or whatever.

    Worst case, I look at this this way: At least they have taken note that elemental is lagging behind in terms of dps and are looking to do something, possibly outside of "lol hey buff shamanism problem solved for 5 minutes".

  8. #1188
    Stood in the Fire shell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    420
    Quote Originally Posted by Moshne View Post
    We don't have enough information to know if this has any impact in PVE or not. Though reading what is actually said they seem to imply that they view this as a damage increase, not a nerf.



    This was stated right after announcing the Lava Burst change. This wouldn't make any sense if they intended this to net lower Lava Burst with no increase to go with it. Merely that they don't think it is enough to fix us completely.

    This change is exactly the direction we want to go with Lava Burst. Making it more like Chaos Bolt (and making it easier for them to make the damage scale with our critical strike rating) will favorably impact our stat scaling, and make our best cooldown, Ascendance, actually benefit from all of our stats. It isn't clear if that is included in this or not, but anyone assuming this will be a net decrease is looking for something to be unhappy about. The only numbers included in the post are speaking about relative damage (2.5:1 vs. 1.5:1 with respect to w/ Flame vs. no-Flame Shock.)

    The change to needing Flame Shock on the target is mostly a PVP change, making is so you don't lose as much damage if your Flame Shock is dispelled while casting your Lava Burst, it won't have any notable impact on PVE, as we'll of course want to have FS up before casting it, which they stated they want to see continue. There is no reason to assume the total damage with Flame Shock up should be any different than on Live given what was actually said.
    This seems pretty accurate to me. I'm not counting on LvB to scale with crit but only because I don't want to get my hopes up. If not then they shouldn't have mentioned Chaos Bolt in the same sentence.

    From what I'm reading on the official PTR thread, its on everyone's mind. Of course its mixed in with all the "can santa please gimme x,y, and z?" which is super annoying. But hopefully it gets answered today.
    These words in my mouth... where did they come from? I don't think I'm the one that put them there...

  9. #1189
    Quote Originally Posted by Nebria View Post
    we just have to be a little bit patient till the next build (or next after next) to see the new numbers
    I'm a bit worried about this mentality since it's the one I'm usually most secure with myself. With the patch looming just two weeks away, it seems like Blizzard is going for "quick and dirty" fixes to class DPS which is likely going to result in some pretty quirky numbers once the patch does go live.

  10. #1190
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    I'm a bit worried about this mentality since it's the one I'm usually most secure with myself. With the patch looming just two weeks away, it seems like Blizzard is going for "quick and dirty" fixes to class DPS which is likely going to result in some pretty quirky numbers once the patch does go live.
    I agree with this. Its like they are throwing something at us to make us shut up for a couple of months.

    They should make shocks dont share cds. To make the rotation easier, and increase lightning bolt damage, or/and searing totem damage.

  11. #1191
    The rotation isn't exactly hard, it doesn't have to be easier seriously.

  12. #1192
    Quote Originally Posted by Recom View Post
    The rotation isn't exactly hard, it doesn't have to be easier seriously.
    Its one of the most awkward ones among all the dps speccs. Because of fulmination crashes with flame shock debuff running out on the target.

    Is it any reason why is shouldnt be as easy as any other dps specc in the game?

  13. #1193
    Quote Originally Posted by Mussy View Post
    Its one of the most awkward ones among all the dps speccs. Because of fulmination crashes with flame shock debuff running out on the target.

    Is it any reason why is shouldnt be as easy as any other dps specc in the game?
    That's literally the only thing even remotely complicated about the rotation though. On the whole, we have one of the easiest rotations in the game. The difference between a good Ele Shaman and a great Ele Shaman are usually the same things which differentiate good players of different classes. (Positioning, timing cooldowns, etc.)

  14. #1194
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    That's literally the only thing even remotely complicated about the rotation though. On the whole, we have one of the easiest rotations in the game. The difference between a good Ele Shaman and a great Ele Shaman are usually the same things which differentiate good players of different classes. (Positioning, timing cooldowns, etc.)
    Exactly. And shock clashes don't happen a lot, maybe once or twice per fight...

  15. #1195
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    That's literally the only thing even remotely complicated about the rotation though. On the whole, we have one of the easiest rotations in the game. The difference between a good Ele Shaman and a great Ele Shaman are usually the same things which differentiate good players of different classes. (Positioning, timing cooldowns, etc.)
    The difference in dps is so small it doesnt even matter if you flame shock instead of fulminate or vice versa. It's just clunky the way it is now, and what did you do in wrath when shock cd management didn't exist?

  16. #1196
    Honestly after reading the changes I just saw to me it makes little sense.

    Sure on multiple target fights it sucks, but as I see it wouldn't you still not want to cast LvB with out FS being on the target? Not saying our rotation is complicated at all, but this change in my head doesn't make much sense.

    I guess at least they admitted to Elemental being low, but it seems like they're having issues figuring out how to balance the spec with out buffing the other two.

  17. #1197
    The wording honestly made it sound like we would be getting yet another Shamanism buff which is neither surprising nor exciting.

  18. #1198
    Epic! lokithor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Mobile, AL
    Posts
    1,727
    Is it just me or did the Legendary meta for casters change? I swear it was Int before now its crit.

  19. #1199
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Waterloo, ON
    Posts
    21,371
    Quote Originally Posted by Mussy View Post
    Its one of the most awkward ones among all the dps speccs. Because of fulmination crashes with flame shock debuff running out on the target.

    Is it any reason why is shouldnt be as easy as any other dps specc in the game?
    Seriously?

    I've played multiple DPS specs. Elemental is not particularly complicated. It's not paint-by-numbers easy, but it SHOULDN'T be, because those skill choices are what make the difference between a good play and someone who tosses all their abilities into a /castrandom macro. There is no major skill difference between playing Elemental or playing any other DPS spec.

  20. #1200
    There are a variety of situations in PvE, where I'll LvB an add without Flame Shock on the target. It might not be the best use of my DPS at that time, but it also doesn't hurt it. On a boss with adds, killing adds usually takes priority over killing the boss. Very rarely does my raid fail to kill a boss because of lack of DPS. It's a nice change for PvP and an added bonus for PvE. If I could have one change in 5.2 it would have been Elemental Blast given to Shamans as a specialization, or at the least a specialization for Elemental.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •