5.2 Shaman changes

[LordHidious]

Shamanism is the only ability that scales with game patches and not gear.

[Kralljin]

Shamanism is the only ability that scales with game patches and not gear.

http://www.wowpedia.org/Shamanism_%28shaman_talent%29

Best Patch History ever.

[Intrepid1]

As far as I know there isn't any solid math out there that defines which of our level 90 talents are going to be best in 5.2. Have I missed something somewhere ?

[Lavindar]

Shamanism is the only ability that scales with game patches and not gear.

Seriously, this sort of post is just so useless, it's just whining, if you don't like how the spell works at lest explain why you don't like, don't just post something so clearly untrue. The skill improves the effect of other skills that improve with the increment of stats, how thats not scaling?

Anyway, to stay on topic, I think that looking at just this last changes could be perceived as not enough, but elemental got others buffs before, so in the end it could be enough to be in a good spot.

And about the whole issue of Lightning Bolt criting for more than Lava Burst, even if in the end Lava Burst would still be better, we have to remember that perception of what is happening is important too, and it has to be taken in account in design. That said, I wouldn't be annoyed if in some fights with strange buffs it happen to be casting only Lightning Bolts, I would even macro a /y Unlimited Power!!!

Edit:

We are unlikely to add extra crit damage to Lava Burst given the amount of time we have left for testing because we don't feel we can accurately predict what it would do to gear or rotational choices, and there is a PvP burst risk as well. We're not against the idea in theory and might try it at a future date once we have more information about what the 5.2 changes do to Elemental overall.

So, no crit increasing Lava Burst damage in 5.2, but not discarded, maybe 5.3 could be the time of this change.

[Slappyjoe]

PE will be the flat out winner.
Nearly every Boss has a Nuke Phase. And if it isnt even behind in overall dps, theres no reason not to use it.

This attitude is weird to me. As flexible as the talent switching system is, why do people expect one talent to be the perfect solution for every encounter? Blizz designed the new system to allow you to switch out depending on the situation and they've been pretty up front about not wanting there to be a "flat out winner" talent in each tier.

[Hoptam]

Seriously, this sort of post is just so useless, it's just whining, if you don't like how the spell works at lest explain why you don't like, don't just post something so clearly untrue. The skill improves the effect of other skills that improve with the increment of stats, how thats not scaling?

Anyway, to stay on topic, I think that looking at just this last changes could be perceived as not enough, but elemental got others buffs before, so in the end it could be enough to be in a good spot.

And about the whole issue of Lightning Bolt criting for more than Lava Burst, even if in the end Lava Burst would still be better, we have to remember that perception of what is happening is important too, and it has to be taken in account in design. That said, I wouldn't be annoyed if in some fights with strange buffs it happen to be casting only Lightning Bolts, I would even macro a /y Unlimited Power!!!

Edit:

We are unlikely to add extra crit damage to Lava Burst given the amount of time we have left for testing because we don't feel we can accurately predict what it would do to gear or rotational choices, and there is a PvP burst risk as well. We're not against the idea in theory and might try it at a future date once we have more information about what the 5.2 changes do to Elemental overall.

So, no crit increasing Lava Burst damage in 5.2, but not discarded, maybe 5.3 could be the time of this change.

I am not realy sure what he ment by "rotational choices" as LvB is prio anyway and the other part of the sentence about no time for testing at this point is also ridiculous acc to my oppinion - there was enough time if they were even remotely interested in shaman community.

That makes me sad :-(

[Deleted]

I dont know how much attention blizz give to the *new* feature "suggestion" you can use in wow, but maybe more then they do to forums?
I wonder if it would change something if all shamans made suggestion about making EB baseline as people mentioned. (tho it probably wont happen in 5.2 cus there isnt time to make new 90 dps talent 2 weeks before patch.)

[woopytywoop]

What scares me a bit is that we're not properly tested (yet again).
With the napkin math of some people, we'll get pushed just below average but blizz will only evaluate us when it's too late again.

And then pvp burst -.-... lava burst isn't anymore the thing of wotlk. At the same time there will be a trinket that will make boomkins spam starsurges like we spam LvB's under ascendance... T.T.

[Deleted]

Is there any place where we have all the 5.2 shaman changes compiled in one post? It's hard to get an overview.. Some of them are in the very first post in this thread, but it needs updating. :-/

[woopytywoop]

Is there any place where we have all the 5.2 shaman changes compiled in one post? It's hard to get an overview.. Some of them are in the very first post in this thread, but it needs updating. :-/

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=5.2+ptr+patch+notes&l=1

click shaman and get here http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/822...3#class_shaman

hope i don't get infracted for this :X

[Kralljin]

i doubt that EB is better on cleave as CL.

With the 5.2 Change to Cl, EB and Cl will be roughly the same in terms of DPCT.

Cl however has on 2 target only 2/3 of your actual Mastery while EB has the full percentage.

And its not that hard to time PE. Its not like u never have the time for the ele to nuke 1 min on a boss.

Depending on the Boss it can be sometimes quite difficult, also PE has the problem of being a Pet, on some Encounter where you get dmg debuffs your pet won't benefit from it.

And PE has one big disadvantage, it does not scale with Mastery, which will very likely be our best stat in 5.2

[Sarevokcz]

And about the whole issue of Lightning Bolt criting for more than Lava Burst, even if in the end Lava Burst would still be better, we have to remember that perception of what is happening is important too, and it has to be taken in account in design. That said, I wouldn't be annoyed if in some fights with strange buffs it happen to be casting only Lightning Bolts, I would even macro a /y Unlimited Power!!!

Y. And then you realize your unlimited power is doing one fifth of firemage dps. Alysrazor flashbacks.

Edit:

We are unlikely to add extra crit damage to Lava Burst given the amount of time we have left for testing because we don't feel we can accurately predict what it would do to gear or rotational choices, and there is a PvP burst risk as well. We're not against the idea in theory and might try it at a future date once we have more information about what the 5.2 changes do to Elemental overall.

So, no crit increasing Lava Burst damage in 5.2, but not discarded, maybe 5.3 could be the time of this change.

Well of course its too late to make mechanical changes to LvB now when they ignored elemental feedback for most of PTR. Why didnt they do it in the first place? Make the FlS extra damage scaling with crit and not flat %? And what gearing choices does he mean? that we would actually benefit now from crit proc for our big CD? PvP risk my ass. And of course they dont feel they can accurately predict 5.2 ele, they never can. Here, I can predict it. We got SR, so we will be sligtly better in PvP, but stil one of the least desirable specs, because our pvp problems are more than just about popping defensive CD. We got slight boost to our damage, but nowhere near enough, especially when alot of other specs were buffed too, so we will be maybe not dead last, but subpar pve dps nontheless. We still got no gimmicks that would make us shine and CL was buffed, so we will be stronger on cleaving. lets hope most aoes dont need more than 4-5 targets

[SamoTray]

[QUOTE=Kralljin;20291012]With the 5.2 Change to Cl, EB and Cl will be roughly the same in terms of DPCT.

Cl however has on 2 target only 2/3 of your actual Mastery while EB has the full percentage.



Well you also have to take in to account ele new tier 15 two piece which im sure will but CL on two targets over the top

[Deleted]

Well its truth that everything special we had didnt get affected on alys fight, lava burst would crit anyway and when LB was under 1sec cast when you popped BL it didnt do anything special either, tho i loved that fire elemental was hitting fast like crazy and critting with every hit too. In PvP as long as we will be so weak against silences even SR wont help so much, i mean its nice to have it and with glyph you can dispell dots, pala stun and so on. Tbh it would be nice to have some totem which can disarm or something like totem which get filled by magnetic force and suck your enemy weapon to it out of his hands.

btw where are you from Sarekovcz?

[Deleted]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=5.2+ptr+patch+notes&l=1

click shaman and get here http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/822...3#class_shaman

hope i don't get infracted for this :X

Ya, I know that list allready... But it's missing the Shamanism and Clearcasting changes. So that made me unsure if there was anything else the list was missing.

[Warmage]

Is it just me or is anyone else really annoyed by the GC answer from the front pages?
So basically they didnt do anything major to ele during the ptr, few weeks before release they changed LvB and now they are not making it scale with crit because there is not enough time left to test it...
Well why the hell did you wait until now ffs... that really pisses me off.
And also to ppl like Endus always saying when we dont get any updates in many new ptr builds in a row...just wait ...they work on other classes but they'll get to us...the ptr is still not over... well now you have your example that waiting pationtly doesnt get you anywhere.
We could get this on the firstt few ptr builds , get to test it, and by now it could be a significant mechanic and dps improvement...

[rogas]

you know, what bugs me the most, is the fact early mop beta sims clearly showed elemental at the bottom of the dps/damage rankings. I'm talking about 7-8 months ago ! Those early beta sims also showed a unacceptable spread between the higest and lowest dps specs.

Did they address those issues 7-8 months ago? No, because they wanted to push their mop release forwards.
Did they address those issues now? a bit, we will again be the lowest dps out there, but the spread between us and the highest dps will be a bit less...


After years raiding, always playing with a disadvantage, i'm done with this shit. What's the fun in being one of the lowest range dps specs, at the end of each patch? year after year after year...

[zenga]

Is it just me or is anyone else really annoyed by the GC answer from the front pages?
So basically they didnt do anything major to ele during the ptr, few weeks before release they changed LvB and now they are not making it scale with crit because there is not enough time left to test it...
Well why the hell did you wait until now ffs... that really pisses me off.
And also to ppl like Endus always saying when we dont get any updates in many new ptr builds in a row...just wait ...they work on other classes but they'll get to us...the ptr is still not over... well now you have your example that waiting pationtly doesnt get you anywhere.
We could get this on the firstt few ptr builds , get to test it, and by now it could be a significant mechanic and dps improvement...

My own highly subjective impression is that this is a recurring thing since cata beta (I can't comment before cata). If I think back about the state of ele, both in pvp and pve, relative to all other dps specs since 4.0, then I'm really disappointed. Outside of 4.2 ele has had always issues in that time frame. Which - as I said before - makes me believe we are less of a priority for the devs. Of course they want us to be good, they don't deliberately make us bad. But it's less of a priority imo than making 1 or 2 rogue, mages and lock specs good. It comes with playing a hybrid I guess.

[Deleted]

you know, what bugs me the most, is the fact early mop beta sims clearly showed elemental at the bottom of the dps/damage rankings. I'm talking about 7-8 months ago ! Those early beta sims also showed a unacceptable spread between the higest and lowest dps specs.

Did they address those issues 7-8 months ago? No, because they wanted to push their mop release forwards.
Did they address those issues now? a bit, we will again be the lowest dps out there, but the spread between us and the highest dps will be a bit less...


After years raiding, always playing with a disadvantage, i'm done with this shit. What's the fun in being one of the lowest range dps specs, at the end of each patch? year after year after year...

I'm sure Endus will give you a 10 page response full of complicated mathematical equations showing we recieved a 3% over dps boost.. Completly ignoring how much other classes got buffed. Shaman gets the lowest dev time spent on it - it always has. Sure I'll get infracted for pointing out the glaring obvious, but hey ho - been a member of this forum longer than most on here, including the mods and seen it all.

[Deleted]

LB isn't anywhere close to surpassing LvB. In 5.1, LvB has roughly three times the DPCT of LB.

That a crit LB can get close to an LvB cast is irrelevant, since EVERY LvB is a crit, and that's a huge factor people ignore.

One can argue that an ability that always crits is also somewhat an ability that never crits.

Bascially LvB is already really low to make up for it always crit. One can argue that it has a high non crit, but never crits...