1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by demoncleaner View Post
    You see middle of the pack(raidbots 10h all parses) and say mediocre, I see middle of the pack and think well balanced. Also that's the only fight that I know of that would come close to qualifying to long term aoe. Ele needs a boost(its getting a couple) no one will argue that. But aoe is not a place that spec needs help in.
    Exclude Boss Dps, majority of the dmg done during Windlord Fight is Boss Dps.

    Only Logs that exclude Windlord itself are valid for AoE Dps Discussion, which i think is not case for Raidbots.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
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  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by demoncleaner View Post
    You see middle of the pack(raidbots 10h all parses) and say mediocre, I see middle of the pack and think well balanced. Also that's the only fight that I know of that would come close to qualifying to long term aoe. Ele needs a boost(its getting a couple) no one will argue that. But aoe is not a place that spec needs help in.
    If they were on average in the middle, i'd say balanced. But that's not the case.

    Being on the one fight that fits optimally the elemental aoe design and where you are expected to be top, just mediocre - well, that just doesn't work.

    Elemental would be okay, if they were able to muldidot on the same level of shadows and balance. Then they would be able to keep up.

    Mediocre for me is just the center third of all parses.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-01 at 01:41 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Exclude Boss Dps, majority of the dmg done during Windlord Fight is Boss Dps.

    Only Logs that exclude Windlord itself are valid for AoE Dps Discussion, which i think is not case for Raidbots.
    That's not true. On Windlord heroic, you also have to aoe adds until the end. On burst phases, you switch to pure single target and at the end of the fight (when you see that the next add wave doesn't die anymore or shortly before boss down).

    So for 80% of the fight, AOE is very important on that fight and so is the cleave of chain lightning.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    That's not true. On Windlord heroic, you also have to aoe adds until the end. On burst phases, you switch to pure single target and at the end of the fight (when you see that the next add wave doesn't die anymore or shortly before boss down).

    So for 80% of the fight, AOE is very important on that fight and so is the cleave of chain lightning.
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/k...?s=5567&e=5800

    My best Windlord Log so far.

    Lvb sits at ~40% dmg (including Overload) while all my AoE Spells (CL and EQ) sit at 37.7%.

    Obviously there could be some improvement made but still, Single Target Dps holds a decent chunk in this Fight, more than you would expect.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2013-01-01 at 01:07 AM.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
    Nothing about what I do is harmonious. I command the elements to my will. There is nothing offered in return. I would have it no other way.


    Never assume an ogre's stupid, that's when they'll get you.

  4. #264
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Pretty good changes overall. Tier 3 definitely needs fixed, and Conductivity just needs to be removed as a talent and get replaced with something else. I can't think of anyone who takes this talent. Every Resto Shaman picks up HTT, and Ele and Enhancement take HTT or AG. Blizzard really should consider putting something new in that slot.

    SR going Ele helps out a lot, and is a good change. As is the change to Flame Shock. We're on the right track. Just seems like baby steps....

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Pretty good changes overall. Tier 3 definitely needs fixed, and Conductivity just needs to be removed as a talent and get replaced with something else. I can't think of anyone who takes this talent. Every Resto Shaman picks up HTT, and Ele and Enhancement take HTT or AG. Blizzard really should consider putting something new in that slot.

    SR going Ele helps out a lot, and is a good change. As is the change to Flame Shock. We're on the right track. Just seems like baby steps....
    Yea i agree, but i think it will have to be pretty strong to be taken over either ag or healing tide. So whilst i dont want it to happen, the other talents, healing tide especially would probably be nerfed to compensate

  6. #266
    They won't nerf HTT or AG, both are to heavily tied to Resto and Ele output. Conductivity is rather easy to bring up to the other two talents. Buff the healing done for Resto, after X Lightning Bolt casts, HR is instant for Ele, and just make HR instant for Enhance but increase the CD.

  7. #267
    Elemental Lord Teriz's Avatar
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    Yeah, they're not going to nerf HTT or AG. HTT especially, because nerfing it would pretty much break Resto Shaman.

    A simple rework of Conductivity would be the best option. Right now its too convoluted, and requires too much work to be effective. I know when I choose talents, I look at Conductivity and roll my eyes, because it just looks like too much work for little benefit. Especially when you compare it to HTT and AG.

    A better idea would be for Blizzard to have heals (Resto) or damaging abilities (Ele/Enh) increase the power and reduce the cast time of Healing Rain by X amount. Another idea would be to expand the size of Healing Rain's radius.

  8. #268
    Mechagnome Cai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yeah, they're not going to nerf HTT or AG. HTT especially, because nerfing it would pretty much break Resto Shaman.
    I will have to disagree with you on that one there. On the fights that I heal I do just fine without HTT. HTT is actually pretty OP for Resto. I won't be too surprised if they due nerf it a little.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Cai View Post
    I will have to disagree with you on that one there. On the fights that I heal I do just fine without HTT. HTT is actually pretty OP for Resto. I won't be too surprised if they due nerf it a little.
    But resto is already the weakest healer, a nerf wouldn't really help the spec. (Please, I don't want to see any "But i top meters in my raid!")

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Cai View Post
    I will have to disagree with you on that one there. On the fights that I heal I do just fine without HTT. HTT is actually pretty OP for Resto. I won't be too surprised if they due nerf it a little.
    The problem is that resto shamans already lag behind when looking at total HPS (5th healer on 25man hc and 6th on 10man hc). If you would lower their utility or "gut" their throughput CDs, there would be very little reason left to bring a resto shaman.
    It's the internet. You never know if people are either sarcastic or just bad.

  11. #271
    Mechagnome Cai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarasun View Post
    But resto is already the weakest healer, a nerf wouldn't really help the spec. (Please, I don't want to see any "But i top meters in my raid!")
    I do agree we are the weakest healer and I would love to be on par with other healers. I am not saying we need a nerf just that it wouldn't surprise me if we did get one. HTT is a really powerful cooldown, especially combined with our Mastery. I would really love to see a Purification buff.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Yeah, they're not going to nerf HTT or AG. HTT especially, because nerfing it would pretty much break Resto Shaman.

    A simple rework of Conductivity would be the best option. Right now its too convoluted, and requires too much work to be effective. I know when I choose talents, I look at Conductivity and roll my eyes, because it just looks like too much work for little benefit. Especially when you compare it to HTT and AG.

    A better idea would be for Blizzard to have heals (Resto) or damaging abilities (Ele/Enh) increase the power and reduce the cast time of Healing Rain by X amount. Another idea would be to expand the size of Healing Rain's radius.
    All they really need to do to make Conductivity stand on it's own with the other two is make HR instant cast if you take the talent.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Cai View Post
    I do agree we are the weakest healer and I would love to be on par with other healers. I am not saying we need a nerf just that it wouldn't surprise me if we did get one. HTT is a really powerful cooldown, especially combined with our Mastery. I would really love to see a Purification buff.
    But then you buff resto shaman in PVP, which doesn't need help at all. This is why they need to make spells/passives behave differently in PVE/PVP.

  14. #274
    It's funny how you say that Ele is mediocre at best at Wind Lord. Only ones actaully beating us are Affli locks and Fire Mages. Frost DKs, fury warriors and survi hunters are at the same line. So if there is 2 specs out of 22 specs beating you. I'd say you are pretty much over mediocre.

  15. #275
    Mechagnome Cai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sarasun View Post
    But then you buff resto shaman in PVP, which doesn't need help at all. This is why they need to make spells/passives behave differently in PVE/PVP.
    Ah, right, that other part of the game. Well making them act differently in PVE/PVP would be nice. I think I remember something about some blue saying that either the tech is there yet or they would have to duplicate every spell in the game. I can't remember exactly. Buffing/Nerfing healing spells/passives seem to be rather difficult without affecting both parts, PVE/PVP, of the game.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeequ View Post
    It's funny how you say that Ele is mediocre at best at Wind Lord. Only ones actaully beating us are Affli locks and Fire Mages. Frost DKs, fury warriors and survi hunters are at the same line. So if there is 2 specs out of 22 specs beating you. I'd say you are pretty much over mediocre.
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Wind_Lord.../7/30/default/
    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Wind_Lord...10100000000000

    Elemental is in the middle of the pack - at best. They are pretty much in the last third of all speccs.

    So nothing brilliant. Pretty close to the middle, where for me is the mediocre part. Not top, not bad.
    Last edited by Klatar; 2013-01-02 at 11:24 PM.

  17. #277
    Warchief Northy's Avatar
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    On PTR the new Flame Shock glyph only heals for 30% of dmg dealt. It's actually quite awful, I could passively regen faster than this...
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  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Pum View Post
    Unbuffed my FS does 6.1k+ per tick, so if the FS glyph was implemented now (without the buff to FS DoT damage), I'd be healed for just over 2k per tick, which seems pretty useless.
    Dunno about that, obviously it's not supposed to be competitive with actually healing yourself but for a HoT that you can maintain indefinitely WHILE doing DPS it's not bad. What does a shad priest's Renew tick for? That costs them a GCD at least.

    Come to think of it, I wonder if the HoT stacks if you maintain FS on multiple targets.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-03 at 05:52 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by demoncleaner View Post
    You see middle of the pack(raidbots 10h all parses) and say mediocre, I see middle of the pack and think well balanced.
    IKR. If WoW was 100% perfectly balanced then every class would be middle of the pack.
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  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by sarasun View Post
    But resto is already the weakest healer, a nerf wouldn't really help the spec. (Please, I don't want to see any "But i top meters in my raid!")
    Weakest healer?
    What are you smoking? They have the most ridiculously powerful CD's in the game, and using them correctly gives them very strong throughput. Maybe in 10m they suck, but in 25m they're ridiculously powerful and AMAZING to stack, more HTT's/ascendances etc. If your healers are playing correctly topping meters is not the most important thing, but bringing utility is. This is because every healer has the potential throughput necessary to heal through content, done correctly. The difference is some healers bring utility which makes them more useful and makes the raid safer. Two specific healers bring very strong utility, disc priests with absorbs, and rshams with their healing CD's (and 10% hp increase). Both of those make healing raids significantly easier/safer.

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by gnorrior View Post
    Weakest healer?
    What are you smoking? They have the most ridiculously powerful CD's in the game, and using them correctly gives them very strong throughput. Maybe in 10m they suck, but in 25m they're ridiculously powerful and AMAZING to stack, more HTT's/ascendances etc. If your healers are playing correctly topping meters is not the most important thing, but bringing utility is. This is because every healer has the potential throughput necessary to heal through content, done correctly. The difference is some healers bring utility which makes them more useful and makes the raid safer. Two specific healers bring very strong utility, disc priests with absorbs, and rshams with their healing CD's (and 10% hp increase). Both of those make healing raids significantly easier/safer.
    What?

    http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...00000000111111

    OVerpowered? Are you serious?

    There are place 5 of 6 in 25m and 6 of 6 in 10m and far behind disci priests. The only thing that makes them useful is mana tide totem in 25m ( + Stromlash). That's it.

    A PVE buff is long time needed.

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