5.2 Shaman changes

[Nebria]

well, im feeling less and less hopeful that blizzard is going to buff single target ele dps anymore than they already have (which isnt by that much)

remebers me on the beta time of mop where I waited for some changes for shamans that in the end never happened^^
but hope dies last... more so for shamans

[SenSayNyu]

I'm gonna switch to enhance if 5.2 goes live without changes for elemental.

[Dundebuns]

I'm gonna switch to enhance if 5.2 goes live without changes for elemental.

I think I will do the same, which is a shame as it will cost me a raiding spot. I refuse to gimp my raid though by taking up a space that could be easily filled by a warlock., but I get my enjoyment from being a productive member of the raid group first and foremost. Problem is that to raid and be worthy of that spot are conflicting issues. Also doesn't help I am under geared :P

[Raiju]

I think I will do the same, which is a shame as it will cost me a raiding spot. I refuse to gimp my raid though by taking up a space that could be easily filled by a warlock., but I get my enjoyment from being a productive member of the raid group first and foremost. Problem is that to raid and be worthy of that spot are conflicting issues. Also doesn't help I am under geared :P

Why not roll mage/warlock/warrior then, going enhancement isn't really going to get you anywhere further as a productive member of a raid group than elemental.

[Dundebuns]

I have a lock at 90 and could get my warrior to 90 within a day, but the raid already has these classes and I will still be undergeared. Must note the guild I am in is #1 on the server, and I cannot expect them (or to be honest, any guild) to have to gear my ass up more than once.

[Raiju]

I'm guess you already have the enhance gear lying around then? otherwise it just makes no sense

[Dundebuns]

Yeah, my Enhance gear is pretty good, and I managed to get a fair few off pieces during my stint as elemental; probably looking at ilvl 490 for enhance, with 1 if not 2 BiS trinkets

[Xanda]

Capacitive Primal Diamond
Item Level 90
Binds when picked up
+324 Stamina & Chance on striking with a melee attack to gain Capacitance.
Requires item level 502

This is one of five new legendary meta gems coming in 5.2. We do not know yet if this is in addition to a MoP meta gem, or takes the place of one.

Capacitive Primal Diamond: +324 Stamina & Chance on striking with a melee attack to gain Capacitance. When Capacitance reaches X charges, you will deal a Lightning Strike to your current target for 100 Nature damage.
Courageous Primal Diamond: +324 Stamina & Chance on casting a helpful spell to make your next spell cost no mana.
Indomitable Primal Diamond: +324 Stamina & Chance on being hit by a melee attack to gain a 20% reduction to physical damage taken for 15 sec.
Sinister Primal Diamond: +324 Stamina & Chance on dealing spell damage to gain 30% spell haste for 10 sec.
Tyrannical Primal Diamond: +665 PVP Power & +775 Resilience

Nature damage? Mmmmmmm

[Endus]

Why not roll mage/warlock/warrior then, going enhancement isn't really going to get you anywhere further as a productive member of a raid group than elemental.

Considering Enhancement is generally outperforming Warriors on most fights, I have no idea where you're getting that.

[Deleted]

Maybe I'm an exception or whatever... but in my guild (9/16 hc) Im among the top 5 dps easily as elemental, unless there are too many gimmicks and RNG included. We might not be elitist so that every single player/class puts out 90-95% of its potential, but we aren't bad either and as elementals are getting a slight buff next patch, I'm more than okay with that. The chainlightning change is going to rock the house on fights like Windlord (which won't be important next patch anymore but maybe there will be similar fights).

[Raiju]

Considering Enhancement is generally outperforming Warriors on most fights, I have no idea where you're getting that.

Sorry, FURY warriors. Didn't know we were being obtuse around here.

[Xanda]

Sorry, FURY warriors. Didn't know we were being obtuse around here.

http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_Scor...14/60/default/

?

[Shottgunn]

Sorry, FURY warriors. Didn't know we were being obtuse around here.

enhance is actually outperforming fury on most fights this tier. Do some research before assuming someones response was wrong.

[Endus]

Sorry, FURY warriors. Didn't know we were being obtuse around here.

And Enhancement is beating fury warriors on most fights. I wasn't assuming the average of the Warrior's two DPS specs or something. I was basing it on the top Warrior spec for the fights in question (which is pretty much Fury, every time, right now).

I'm not the one being obtuse, dude.

Like Xanda posted; http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...14/60/default/ Enhancement is ahead of Fury, overall. There's some fights Fury pulls ahead, but it's by no means "worse" to bring an Enhancement, overall.

[Kinnetik]

And Enhancement is beating fury warriors on most fights. I wasn't assuming the average of the Warrior's two DPS specs or something. I was basing it on the top Warrior spec for the fights in question (which is pretty much Fury, every time, right now).

I'm not the one being obtuse, dude.

Like Xanda posted; http://raidbots.com/dpsbot/Overall_D...14/60/default/ Enhancement is ahead of Fury, overall. There's some fights Fury pulls ahead, but it's by no means "worse" to bring an Enhancement, overall.

Checking the overall DPS on all parses for any setting (personally 10 man, both Heroic and Normal), it's disheartening as Elemental. Especially given what appears to be very minor adjustments in 5.2 that won't cause Elemental to move up in the DPS ranks more.

I would seriously consider switching to Enhance myself if it weren't for:
1. Having zero Enhance gear as I haven't been collecting any.
2. Having a rogue and hunter both in my raid means I'm just stealing weapons/trinkets/gear from either or both, while caster mail would just be relegated to off-spec.

Ugh.

[Nebria]

I don't like to play a melee so changing is not an option for me even if playing enhance would be some fresh and new. also not every raid accepts switching from ranged to melee.
but it is good to see that enhance is pretty good in pve

[zenga]

GC just posted on the EU forums an answer to a destruction warlock question for a single target buff. Guess this applies to elemental shamans as well:

Q:Appreciate the update Ghostcrawler, but still waiting on news of a buff for Destro single target damage.

A: As I said above, it makes more sense for us to implement mechanics changes before we tune all the numbers. Otherwise, you throw out all the tuning work every time you make another mechanics change. I will post when we've finished our 5.2 tuning pass so you guys have a chance to offer feedback.

We think Destro may be a little behind, but it's not much. Affliction PvE damage is too high, which causes many warlocks to go Affliction on every fight rather than considering options. That creates a big sampling bias effect on sites like World of Logs and Raidbots. The lower performing DPS specs appear even lower than they actually are because the only players generating those logs are uninformed (which also tends to mean undergeared) or just messing around. To get a more accurate test, you need to see a player try every spec under similar circumstances (gear, skill, etc.), and those data are much more rare.

The 2nd part doesn't really apply to ele as we can't switch to enhance without gear, whereas pures can.

[Raiju]

Yes, using all parses makes so much sense. That's only logical when there aren't a huge amount of parses to begin with (to make sure the sample size is reasonable..) Why would you use that when you have top 100 and months of data to have plenty of logs?

Inb4 "but it's only 100 parses" it's the top 100. It's the top 100 for a reason. So what, a more FOTM spec gets lower on all parses because FOTM players are naturally bad?

[Endus]

The 2nd part doesn't really apply to ele as we can't switch to enhance without gear, whereas pures can.

It does, somewhat; a lot of Shaman go Enhancement because Elemental is performing so much worse. It's not as easy to switch, so if a patch suddenly hosed Enhancement and boosted Elemental you wouldn't see as fast a turnaround, but it has a long-term effect.

That's just why it'll take a few weeks/months to see Elemental's true recovery once they're fixed, though, as people gear up their Elemental spec again, not an explanation for their current numbers.

Yes, using all parses makes so much sense. That's only logical when there aren't a huge amount of parses to begin with (to make sure the sample size is reasonable..) Why would you use that when you have top 100 and months of data to have plenty of logs?

Inb4 "but it's only 100 parses" it's the top 100. It's the top 100 for a reason. So what, a more FOTM spec gets lower on all parses because FOTM players are naturally bad?

Because "top X parses" is statistically dishonest and misleading for a host of reasons, always, regardless of the amount of data. In fact, as you get more data, it makes "top X parses" models MORE misleading, not less.

I dealt with this in excruciating detail in a blog post a while back. The specific numbers are obviously out of date, but the math theory that is the point of the post is math theory, and never goes out of date; http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/880800

[Nebria]

GC just posted on the EU forums an answer to a destruction warlock question for a single target buff. Guess this applies to elemental shamans as well:

Q:Appreciate the update Ghostcrawler, but still waiting on news of a buff for Destro single target damage.

A: As I said above, it makes more sense for us to implement mechanics changes before we tune all the numbers. Otherwise, you throw out all the tuning work every time you make another mechanics change. I will post when we've finished our 5.2 tuning pass so you guys have a chance to offer feedback.

We think Destro may be a little behind, but it's not much. Affliction PvE damage is too high, which causes many warlocks to go Affliction on every fight rather than considering options. That creates a big sampling bias effect on sites like World of Logs and Raidbots. The lower performing DPS specs appear even lower than they actually are because the only players generating those logs are uninformed (which also tends to mean undergeared) or just messing around. To get a more accurate test, you need to see a player try every spec under similar circumstances (gear, skill, etc.), and those data are much more rare.

The 2nd part doesn't really apply to ele as we can't switch to enhance without gear, whereas pures can.

I think the bold text is what is interesting for us