5.2 Shaman changes

[Kazgrel]

Not sure what to make of the flame shock + lava burst proposed change at this time. Part of me simply wonders at this point "why not just remove the shared CD between the shocks" to help smooth things out rotation wise. I suppose it would make playing the spec more mongoloid or whatever.

Worst case, I look at this this way: At least they have taken note that elemental is lagging behind in terms of dps and are looking to do something, possibly outside of "lol hey buff shamanism problem solved for 5 minutes".

[shell]

We don't have enough information to know if this has any impact in PVE or not. Though reading what is actually said they seem to imply that they view this as a damage increase, not a nerf.



This was stated right after announcing the Lava Burst change. This wouldn't make any sense if they intended this to net lower Lava Burst with no increase to go with it. Merely that they don't think it is enough to fix us completely.

This change is exactly the direction we want to go with Lava Burst. Making it more like Chaos Bolt (and making it easier for them to make the damage scale with our critical strike rating) will favorably impact our stat scaling, and make our best cooldown, Ascendance, actually benefit from all of our stats. It isn't clear if that is included in this or not, but anyone assuming this will be a net decrease is looking for something to be unhappy about. The only numbers included in the post are speaking about relative damage (2.5:1 vs. 1.5:1 with respect to w/ Flame vs. no-Flame Shock.)

The change to needing Flame Shock on the target is mostly a PVP change, making is so you don't lose as much damage if your Flame Shock is dispelled while casting your Lava Burst, it won't have any notable impact on PVE, as we'll of course want to have FS up before casting it, which they stated they want to see continue. There is no reason to assume the total damage with Flame Shock up should be any different than on Live given what was actually said.

This seems pretty accurate to me. I'm not counting on LvB to scale with crit but only because I don't want to get my hopes up. If not then they shouldn't have mentioned Chaos Bolt in the same sentence.

From what I'm reading on the official PTR thread, its on everyone's mind. Of course its mixed in with all the "can santa please gimme x,y, and z?" which is super annoying. But hopefully it gets answered today.

[Relapses]

we just have to be a little bit patient till the next build (or next after next) to see the new numbers

I'm a bit worried about this mentality since it's the one I'm usually most secure with myself. With the patch looming just two weeks away, it seems like Blizzard is going for "quick and dirty" fixes to class DPS which is likely going to result in some pretty quirky numbers once the patch does go live.

[Tesshin20]

I'm a bit worried about this mentality since it's the one I'm usually most secure with myself. With the patch looming just two weeks away, it seems like Blizzard is going for "quick and dirty" fixes to class DPS which is likely going to result in some pretty quirky numbers once the patch does go live.

I agree with this. Its like they are throwing something at us to make us shut up for a couple of months.

They should make shocks dont share cds. To make the rotation easier, and increase lightning bolt damage, or/and searing totem damage.

[Recom]

The rotation isn't exactly hard, it doesn't have to be easier seriously.

[Tesshin20]

The rotation isn't exactly hard, it doesn't have to be easier seriously.

Its one of the most awkward ones among all the dps speccs. Because of fulmination crashes with flame shock debuff running out on the target.

Is it any reason why is shouldnt be as easy as any other dps specc in the game?

[Relapses]

Its one of the most awkward ones among all the dps speccs. Because of fulmination crashes with flame shock debuff running out on the target.

Is it any reason why is shouldnt be as easy as any other dps specc in the game?

That's literally the only thing even remotely complicated about the rotation though. On the whole, we have one of the easiest rotations in the game. The difference between a good Ele Shaman and a great Ele Shaman are usually the same things which differentiate good players of different classes. (Positioning, timing cooldowns, etc.)

[Recom]

That's literally the only thing even remotely complicated about the rotation though. On the whole, we have one of the easiest rotations in the game. The difference between a good Ele Shaman and a great Ele Shaman are usually the same things which differentiate good players of different classes. (Positioning, timing cooldowns, etc.)

Exactly. And shock clashes don't happen a lot, maybe once or twice per fight...

[Dkenusc]

That's literally the only thing even remotely complicated about the rotation though. On the whole, we have one of the easiest rotations in the game. The difference between a good Ele Shaman and a great Ele Shaman are usually the same things which differentiate good players of different classes. (Positioning, timing cooldowns, etc.)

The difference in dps is so small it doesnt even matter if you flame shock instead of fulminate or vice versa. It's just clunky the way it is now, and what did you do in wrath when shock cd management didn't exist?

[Roamingstorm]

Honestly after reading the changes I just saw to me it makes little sense.

Sure on multiple target fights it sucks, but as I see it wouldn't you still not want to cast LvB with out FS being on the target? Not saying our rotation is complicated at all, but this change in my head doesn't make much sense.

I guess at least they admitted to Elemental being low, but it seems like they're having issues figuring out how to balance the spec with out buffing the other two.

[Relapses]

The wording honestly made it sound like we would be getting yet another Shamanism buff which is neither surprising nor exciting.

[lokithor]

Is it just me or did the Legendary meta for casters change? I swear it was Int before now its crit.

[Endus]

Its one of the most awkward ones among all the dps speccs. Because of fulmination crashes with flame shock debuff running out on the target.

Is it any reason why is shouldnt be as easy as any other dps specc in the game?

Seriously?

I've played multiple DPS specs. Elemental is not particularly complicated. It's not paint-by-numbers easy, but it SHOULDN'T be, because those skill choices are what make the difference between a good play and someone who tosses all their abilities into a /castrandom macro. There is no major skill difference between playing Elemental or playing any other DPS spec.

[Taalyn]

There are a variety of situations in PvE, where I'll LvB an add without Flame Shock on the target. It might not be the best use of my DPS at that time, but it also doesn't hurt it. On a boss with adds, killing adds usually takes priority over killing the boss. Very rarely does my raid fail to kill a boss because of lack of DPS. It's a nice change for PvP and an added bonus for PvE. If I could have one change in 5.2 it would have been Elemental Blast given to Shamans as a specialization, or at the least a specialization for Elemental.

[Deleted]

Swapping target changed, I don't know what is so difficult to understand. Instead of throwing pitiful Lightning Bolts you can throw a guaranteed crit LvB which will hit harder without wasting 1 gcd on FS.

There's almost no situation where you won't have FS ready to swap to an add. Elegon? Incorrect, learn to time your shocks better. Tsulong HC? Have yet to find out so I can't comment. Amber Shaper? Get on the construct instead and have your melee/hunter finish the amber globules off. Will? FS should be up when you swap. Spirit Kings? Delay going on the skull until you have FS up (or cast an EB first, w/e), which should in any case not be more than 1-2 seconds. Zor'lok? Learn to time your shocks better. Mel'jarak what? You are using FS on adds? Protectors? Why?

The only case where this glyph would possibly be beneficial is if you are relatively alone on several waves of fast-spawning adds (Tsulong). Otherwise you can always time your cooldowns right for a target swap, have the others clean up the flimsy adds or open with a LB/EB before dropping that FS and casting LvB.

Let's not overreact. In those select situations where you fuck up, it's going to make you fuck up less on the meters. This change will not let us perform better by any standard, unless a subpar one in which you cast several LvBs without a FS up on the target. Which shouldn't happen. Is it a welcome change? Any positive change is welcome, but to pretend this is going to be one major QoL adjustment, or a flat out DPS increase as some mentioned, is delusional.

I'm a bit worried about this mentality since it's the one I'm usually most secure with myself. With the patch looming just two weeks away, it seems like Blizzard is going for "quick and dirty" fixes to class DPS which is likely going to result in some pretty quirky numbers once the patch does go live.

Well, Shamanism is the 'quick and dirty' all of us are hoping for, no?

Its one of the most awkward ones among all the dps speccs. Because of fulmination crashes with flame shock debuff running out on the target.

Is it any reason why is shouldnt be as easy as any other dps specc in the game?

Ele plays smooth as butter. The only awkwardness are Lava Surge procs on a high latency. In terms of easy vs. hard, we are undeniably one of the easiest specs with hardly any decision making, related to mechanics (not cooldowns, since every class deals with that), that separates the very good from the best, aside from Fulmination usage before FS refreshes.

[Irisia]

Is it just me or did the Legendary meta for casters change? I swear it was Int before now its crit.

It was changed from stamina to crit a few weeks ago.

[Deleted]

If I could have one change in 5.2 it would have been Elemental Blast given to Shamans as a specialization, or at the least a specialization for Elemental.

To be replaced with what? Just curious. I also feel that Elemental Blast completes our rotation, having it baseline and being able to go PE or whatever the new talent could be, would be fairly sweet.

[Recom]

Ok to clarify something : I never said that it's a shock CD problem. Obviously managing the CD is a big part of our gameplay.

Now, on Elegon for example, why on earth would you FS the balls ? Spending a GCD to FS a target who will die 3 to 6 seconds later is a big waste of DPS.
Now you can use it regardless, YES your LvB will do less damage since there is no FS but it'll still be better than having to waste 1 GCD to apply FS, instead you can EB/LB/whatever.

When you say that other people should do it instead of you, what about when nobody can do it except you ? I really don't understand how having more possibilities is a bad thing. It doesn't change anything to our normal rotation, and if you want to waste a GCD to FS you can still do it with the change, so tell me how is this bad exactly ?

Anyway thanks for all the gameplay advice but who are you exactly ?

[Deleted]

Ok to clarify something : I never said that it's a shock CD problem. Obviously managing the CD is a big part of our gameplay.

Now, on Elegon for example, why on earth would you FS the balls ? Spending a GCD to FS a target who will die 3 to 6 seconds later is a big waste of DPS.
Now you can use it regardless, YES your LvB will do less damage since there is no FS but it'll still be better than having to waste 1 GCD to apply FS, instead you can EB/LB/whatever. ?

If your group is going for anything above 4-5 stacks, you'd be hard pressed without dropping FS for the LvB crit. 10 Man.

When you say that other people should do it instead of you, what about when nobody can do it except you ? I really don't understand how having more possibilities is a bad thing. It doesn't change anything to our normal rotation, and if you want to waste a GCD to FS you can still do it with the change, so tell me how is this bad exactly ?

In what situation is there nobody but you to handle a mechanic that forces you to swap several times every 5 seconds or less to different bosses/adds? In this tier? And that results in imminent danger if you don't cast your LvB without a FS?

Read my post again, I never said it was bad. Don't pretend I said things to make your argument easier to defend.

Anyway thanks for all the gameplay advice but who are you exactly

I replied in a proper way and laid out my argument, I'm not going into this ad hominem battle because you're running out of things to say.

[Spongy]

Just saw the change, so from a PVE only point of view, I am going to hit for less basically. As the base damage has gone down a lot and the SP scaling but I gain 50% for not messing up. So from a PVE only point of view its making bad shamans better?