1. #2021
    Pandaren Monk Darksoldierr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Hungary
    Posts
    1,911
    Hah, well in that case count me in
    Time is on our side
    Brutal Gladiator Enhancement Shaman *rawr*

  2. #2022
    Dreadlord Aurokk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Internet
    Posts
    799
    Quote Originally Posted by woopytywoop View Post
    which one? this one?




    Lead developer sets an example of professionalism.
    Maybe we should hire a bus and go to the BBQ...
    In before Bus Shock jokes.

    On topic hows our damage compared to other classes w/o ToT trinkets and legendary meta gem and/or set bonuses from T15?

  3. #2023
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    7,000
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitwit View Post
    Monks are a new class, and they don't really have a dedicated SimC developer. Take their results with a grain of salt (I know I haven't been seeing WW monks at the top of PTR logs).
    Do you have an up to date on list on which specs have dedicated developers? Back in cata enhance was being handled by a mage/spriest where the mage said flame shock is the most important spell as it's a dot and the spriest put 69 seconds of spells in a 60 second timeframe due to not understanding the spec - who's doing it now?

  4. #2024
    The thing with Elemental 4-pc is...

    As a 10m raider with no Warrior in our group, and someone who tries to use it with Ancestral Guidance for huge heals, I'm liking the set-bonus. At the same time, however, it should still be a dps gain for everyone, and not just those unlucky enough to lack a Warrior!

  5. #2025
    Better to pray for some tweeks before patch go live folks! Even its only sim, it might give u some image how things gonna be.

    http://i.imgur.com/412acA2.png
    Shaman since MoP, Raider since Vanilla

    Armory

    eXample - Semi HC 12/14HC guild

  6. #2026
    The Patient Lensir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Otwock
    Posts
    220
    Quote Originally Posted by Sabrage View Post
    Better to pray for some tweeks before patch go live folks! Even its only sim, it might give u some image how things gonna be.

    http://i.imgur.com/412acA2.png
    Sorry but this is bullshit. I doubt Affli and Arcane will be the top specs in 5.2 - Affliction got GoSac nerfed to the ground and is so much closer to other Warlock's specs. The same case is with Arcane. So try again.

  7. #2027
    they nerfed sac buffed haunt , they buffed arcane then nerfed then buffed then nerfed and buffed again all spells for 2 %

    and look at trinkets and what benefit it has to aff

  8. #2028
    its the usual joke, buff ele by a tiny tiny amount, give everyone else huge changes.

    if GC thinks 5.2 should go live as it is and leave it like this until 5.3, he's more retarded than we first thought.

  9. #2029
    Quote Originally Posted by Pietrzyk View Post
    Sorry but this is bullshit. I doubt Affli and Arcane will be the top specs in 5.2 - Affliction got GoSac nerfed to the ground and is so much closer to other Warlock's specs. The same case is with Arcane. So try again.
    I said its ONLY SIM, which could mean something but it might not. Its not like other talents are THAT bad for Affli (ofc Sacrifice was top). About Arcane, nobody can say anything until we see it since every small buff/nerf to spell scaling changing that spec dps a lot.

    For Shaman we have warning signals like not-so-awesome trinkets, legendary meta which adds hardly some DPS upgrade or not much fancy 4p. :P
    Shaman since MoP, Raider since Vanilla

    Armory

    eXample - Semi HC 12/14HC guild

  10. #2030
    Stood in the Fire shell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    420
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    its the usual joke, buff ele by a tiny tiny amount, give everyone else huge changes.
    That's not what I'm worried about. From reading some theorycrafting from other posters here and elsewhere it seems that looking at our numbers in a vacuum, our dps is fine. By 'in a vacuum' I mean leaving out set bonuses and the meta-gem. Unfortunately, when those 2 things are included, THAT's where we fall way behind. In other words, for once, it actually looks like our dps is fine...but the gains we're getting, from set bonuses and meta-gem, relative to other spec appears to be majorly lacking.

    Unfortunately, when stuff like this gets brought up we're told it's too soon to know. Understandable, because numbers get changed often, but by the time we do know for sure....it's too late for the devs to make any changes.
    These words in my mouth... where did they come from? I don't think I'm the one that put them there...

  11. #2031
    In two days it'll hit live and people will start posting logs of their fights. Just wait two days and we'll see how we're looking on the first couple of fights

  12. #2032
    Dreadlord zenga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    998
    Quote Originally Posted by Sabrage View Post
    I said its ONLY SIM, which could mean something but it might not. Its not like other talents are THAT bad for Affli (ofc Sacrifice was top). About Arcane, nobody can say anything until we see it since every small buff/nerf to spell scaling changing that spec dps a lot.

    For Shaman we have warning signals like not-so-awesome trinkets, legendary meta which adds hardly some DPS upgrade or not much fancy 4p. :P
    Another warning signal for myself is that with specs I've never raided with, I'm able to pull higher dps vs the target dummy than with my ele shaman which I main since wotlk. That is reading up the guide on the respective wow class forums, make some weak auras to track stuff and setup my keybinds to what seems logical to me. That is of course no scientific evidence whatsoever, but it's damn well depressing. And a clear warning signal for myself.

  13. #2033
    Quote Originally Posted by Pietrzyk View Post
    Sorry but this is bullshit. I doubt Affli and Arcane will be the top specs in 5.2 - Affliction got GoSac nerfed to the ground and is so much closer to other Warlock's specs.
    Please check what GoSac actually does and then check the typical dmg distribution of affli locks. MG's dot component is unaffected by GoSac, GoSac only effects MG's dmg itself. That was minuscule to begin with.
    Also, a 13.3% nerf is not "to the ground".

  14. #2034
    Quote Originally Posted by Pietrzyk View Post
    Sorry but this is bullshit. I doubt Affli and Arcane will be the top specs in 5.2 - Affliction got GoSac nerfed to the ground and is so much closer to other Warlock's specs. The same case is with Arcane. So try again.
    Call BS too, according to this enh shaman sim much higher
    http://dread-gaming.com/simc/enh_mop_794.html

  15. #2035
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Waterloo, ON
    Posts
    22,561
    Folks, the sims are still VERY much partially complete and imperfectly tested. That's why simulationcraft doesn't have a 5.2 version ready for download, or t15 data on their front page. Simulationcraft isn't a monolithic tool where everything is at the same stage of development; each class and spec is often being worked on by different people, at different paces.

    Preliminary sims need to be taken with much larger grains of salt than even release-stage sims, which have plenty of issues of their own. I'm not saying Elemental will be fine and to ignore the sims (I think we'll be a bit low still), but the sims aren't "proof".

  16. #2036
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    7,000
    How about we just completely disregard simcraft sims that don't have a dedicated guy behind the spec in question (or behind each spec in question) that can prove he knows his shit. Otherwise they will continue to be as worthless to others as they clearly have been to enhance since they spiked in popularity in cata (late wrath?)

    Quite a few classes have their own much more reliable sims, is FD and SC still continued? I know Enhsim is no longer maintained by the guy who did a good job with it (still not 100% but it got a lot closer than anything else), not sure if it's even maintained.

  17. #2037
    I tell you now those sims are probably accurate. When i saw mop beta sims 6 months ago, elemental was at the bottom. Everbody yelled 'those sims aren't accurate', they do not reflex ingame numbers.

    well tbh ... yes they do

  18. #2038
    Immortal Raiju's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    England
    Posts
    7,000
    hitting bottom and bottom isn't exactly difficult to sim. But on both the OP side and hte UP side, getting people to dismiss sims that aren't good enough quality also means when someone damning comes up on a sim YOU CAN USE IT as evidence.

  19. #2039
    You don't need sims to predict where elemental's place will be in 5.2.
    We have enough data from 5.0/5.1.
    Look over the changes of all speccs.
    Look at elemental's scaling, we are the only casters who use red gems. But our gain from int isn't stronger than the other classes'.
    Look at the new meta gem, or read the blue post. Just wait for "We are aware of the issue, but we think it will be fine".
    Look at Unerring Vision of Lei Shen, or read the blue post.

    I can't predict numbers that way, but it gives a good picture where we will find ourselves compared to other speccs.

    _____

    I would love a new passive like: If your LvB or CL cast time is below 1 second, their dmg is increased by the portion the cast time is below one second...adding to that the Chaos Bolt mechanic to LvB, that would solve a lot of scaling issues and put our dps in regions where at least I think it should be, no multidotting, good cleave, good single target, good meaning between 60th and 80th percentile.
    Last edited by Laurean; 2013-03-03 at 06:54 PM.

  20. #2040
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Waterloo, ON
    Posts
    22,561
    Quote Originally Posted by rogas View Post
    I tell you now those sims are probably accurate. When i saw mop beta sims 6 months ago, elemental was at the bottom. Everbody yelled 'those sims aren't accurate', they do not reflex ingame numbers.

    well tbh ... yes they do
    You're ignoring the greater reality for a single incident.

    The 5.1 sims have Shadow WAY at the bottom. Ret is also down there, both below Elemental. In practice, even on single-target fights that are as close to a Patchwerk sim as we can get, they both do significantly better in practice than the sims show.

    Sims are a tool. They don't reflect reality perfectly.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-03 at 01:47 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    hitting bottom and bottom isn't exactly difficult to sim. But on both the OP side and hte UP side, getting people to dismiss sims that aren't good enough quality also means when someone damning comes up on a sim YOU CAN USE IT as evidence.
    It's not about "dismissing" sims. I don't disagree with Elemental's placement on them. I'm saying you need to take them with a grain of salt, since there's a lot of other stuff going on, particularly with PTR sims like this.

    It's evidence. It's not proof. People are saying "look at these sims, we're screwed." That's acting as if it's proof, when it's not. It's indicative there might be a problem, but you should be backing that up with other evidence, too.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •