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  1. #1

    Shadow Priest DOTs / Haste

    I have now 8100 haste, so I reached the soft cap. How should I clip the dots for maximum effect now? I noticed that second last tick comes around 1.5 sec before SW:P is expired

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Fabu View Post
    I have now 8100 haste, so I reached the soft cap. How should I clip the dots for maximum effect now? I noticed that second last tick comes around 1.5 sec before SW:P is expired
    you should try and clip it right after the second to last tick. so if the last tick is at X seconds, you should refresh it between (X-1.5) and X seconds, according to your numbers. although i have to say i'm surprised that your second to last tick comes at 1.5 seconds earlier, because math points to that being at 2.4 seconds earlier to the expiration of SWP. for your tick to be anywhere close to 1.5 seconds, you need more haste than we can realistically acquire, around 100% haste.

    DoTs update dynamically with buffs and debuffs on you, EXCEPT for haste. HoTs don't update dynamically with haste. if you want proof, cast SWP on a dummy, check the period, then cast PI and check the period again. it shouldn't change. If it does, then i'm wrong.

    what this means is that in some cases, it could be beneficial to recast DoTs early, but only when you've got a huge haste buff.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by nzall View Post
    DoTs update dynamically with buffs and debuffs on you, EXCEPT for haste.
    Is that true? I thought dots didn't update dynamically for haste nor any other stat...

  4. #4
    The Patient Aica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eldarc View Post
    Is that true?
    Completely false.
    Last edited by Aica; 2012-12-14 at 10:11 PM.
    {[( )]}

  5. #5
    the only 'dynamic' thing that impacts an already cast dot is a change in debuffs on the target (elegon, or CoE being applied/falling off), or your crit/mastery rating, because these are both done on a per tick basis (each dot tick rolls for mastery proc, then rolls for a crit, then the mastery proc rolls for a crit).

    intellect, spellpower, and haste all persist based on your levels when your dot lands on the target.

  6. #6
    again.... what snaxattax says is false, isn't it???

  7. #7
    That is true.

    (I stand corrected)
    Last edited by laplacedemon; 2012-12-23 at 02:55 AM.

  8. #8
    no, it's how they work. this is how they worked in cata and the mechanics of dots have not changed for MOP. the only thing that changed is our mastery rating, which is a per-tick rolled proc instead of a buff to empowered shadows.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by snaxattax View Post
    the only 'dynamic' thing that impacts an already cast dot is a change in debuffs on the target (elegon, or CoE being applied/falling off), or your crit/mastery rating, because these are both done on a per tick basis (each dot tick rolls for mastery proc, then rolls for a crit, then the mastery proc rolls for a crit).

    intellect, spellpower, and haste all persist based on your levels when your dot lands on the target.
    This is incorrect information, things changed long ago, you obviously did not do your homework.
    "You take 4,994,468 boredom damage from daily quests.... You have died."

  10. #10
    that is how it works. it hasn't changed. the only thing that is different from MOP with regards to dots is mastery. read your logs.

    or, better yet, just go up to a target dummy, cast SWP and watch it tick while your jade spirit/tailoring/trinkets proc. the only thing that changes is the damage done by your shadowy apps.
    Last edited by snaxattax; 2012-12-15 at 07:06 PM.

  11. #11
    from Kilee the SP mod over at How2Priest.com


    Re: Refreshing Dots

    Postby Kilee » October 22nd, 2012, 6:07 am


    Shadow Word: Pain - you can pretty much cast this whenever you want. Similar to DP back in Cata, the damage component of this spell makes it safe to cast whenever you like. You should be spamming this like a fiend whenever you're moving anyway.

    Vampiric Touch - if you've recently cast this spell, I wouldn't bother refreshing. A good rule of thumb is 50% of the spell remaining at the least, plus a very decent buff. 2000 intellect proc - yes. 2000 crit/haste/mastery - no.

    If there's ANYTHING you can cast other than Mind Flay or a dot refresh, do that instead.

    Keep in mind that refreshing isn't a big deal anymore. You won't notice a dps increase like you did in Cata. At best, it will "normalize" your dps, so that there's not so wide of a margin between high and low from fight to fight.
    "You take 4,994,468 boredom damage from daily quests.... You have died."

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by snaxattax View Post
    or your crit/mastery rating, because these are both done on a per tick basis (each dot tick rolls for mastery proc, then rolls for a crit, then the mastery proc rolls for a crit).
    Unless shadow is different from affliction, this is wrong, at least with regards to crit. When I solo Alyszrazor I put up fresh dots just as my crit buff is falling off (+75%). Almost every tick of all three of my dots crits until they expire.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Bremmon View Post
    from Kilee the SP mod over at How2Priest.com


    Re: Refreshing Dots

    Postby Kilee » October 22nd, 2012, 6:07 am


    Shadow Word: Pain - you can pretty much cast this whenever you want. Similar to DP back in Cata, the damage component of this spell makes it safe to cast whenever you like. You should be spamming this like a fiend whenever you're moving anyway.

    Vampiric Touch - if you've recently cast this spell, I wouldn't bother refreshing. A good rule of thumb is 50% of the spell remaining at the least, plus a very decent buff. 2000 intellect proc - yes. 2000 crit/haste/mastery - no.

    If there's ANYTHING you can cast other than Mind Flay or a dot refresh, do that instead.

    Keep in mind that refreshing isn't a big deal anymore. You won't notice a dps increase like you did in Cata. At best, it will "normalize" your dps, so that there's not so wide of a margin between high and low from fight to fight.
    none of this has anything to do with dynamic stat updating. the vampiric touch part hints at the fact that they don't dynamically update.

    i thought that they'd changed how it works for crit for mop, but it's such a minor difference in most scenarios (non alysrazor buff) that i've never bothered to test it.

    regardless, you don't get dynamically updated intellect/spellpower on dots.

  14. #14
    Bloodsail Admiral Frmercury's Avatar
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    Wow.

    DoTs 'snapshot' your stats when cast and keeps them until recast. Period.

  15. #15
    that is how it works. it hasn't changed. the only thing that is different from MOP with regards to dots is mastery. read your logs.
    Except that DoTs didn't work like that in Cata....

    DoTs 'snapshot' your stats when cast and keeps them until recast. Period.
    This is how it works. Your stats (SP, Haste, Crit AND Mastery) are snapshot when your Dot lands on the target, and never updates until it falls off or you refresh it. Debuffs on the target updates dynamically for every tick.

    Period.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by snaxattax View Post
    none of this has anything to do with dynamic stat updating. the vampiric touch part hints at the fact that they don't dynamically update.

    i thought that they'd changed how it works for crit for mop, but it's such a minor difference in most scenarios (non alysrazor buff) that i've never bothered to test it.

    regardless, you don't get dynamically updated intellect/spellpower on dots.
    Which is exactly what that post says... Update your dots with intel procs, ignore everything else except Heroism.
    "You take 4,994,468 boredom damage from daily quests.... You have died."

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Bremmon View Post
    from Kilee the SP mod over at How2Priest.com


    Re: Refreshing Dots

    Postby Kilee » October 22nd, 2012, 6:07 am


    Shadow Word: Pain - you can pretty much cast this whenever you want. Similar to DP back in Cata, the damage component of this spell makes it safe to cast whenever you like. You should be spamming this like a fiend whenever you're moving anyway.

    Vampiric Touch - if you've recently cast this spell, I wouldn't bother refreshing. A good rule of thumb is 50% of the spell remaining at the least, plus a very decent buff. 2000 intellect proc - yes. 2000 crit/haste/mastery - no.

    If there's ANYTHING you can cast other than Mind Flay or a dot refresh, do that instead.

    Keep in mind that refreshing isn't a big deal anymore. You won't notice a dps increase like you did in Cata. At best, it will "normalize" your dps, so that there's not so wide of a margin between high and low from fight to fight.


    So what are you saying? Does not the haste cap is so good that is said to be? I wondered it btw otherwise too, in Simulationcraft crit is more important than haste. I think you forget in your thing that if refresh dots too eearly, you lost time with global cooldowns in overall time.

  18. #18
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    Hmm,

    Updating dots due to a trinket haste proc is wrong? why is that?

    I do it on int trinket proc and on haste proc

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Frmercury View Post
    Wow.

    DoTs 'snapshot' your stats when cast and keeps them until recast. Period.
    Wrong - Dots snapshots your stats when the spell lands on the target - go try with Vampiric Touch.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by zirgalan View Post
    Hmm,

    Updating dots due to a trinket haste proc is wrong? why is that?

    I do it on int trinket proc and on haste proc

    Lets say your at your haste soft cap.. What is your dots gaining with haste proc? with int procs it will surely do more damage. I think it's waste of time refreshing dots for haste. I certainty do it for int procs.

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