[5.2 Balance] Changes discussion!

[halfawake]

That would be nice Cyberowl, but if the past is any indication they don't care very much about moonkins. The nv change was most likely made because of feral pvp and I haven't seen a moonkin thread get a blue response of any kind in a long time. I really don't know if I want to continue with moonkin for 5.2 but I'll give ptr* a go and see..

Sorry I know i'm being cynical but I'm already frustrated with certain elements of moonkins and like cyous said, we don't need more micro management.

[huth]

If the past is any indication they very much care about moonkins. We steadily got improved just about every expansion.

[Deleted]

Moonkin used to be my MS but after seeing the plan for MoP I switched to MS Guardian and never regretted it. Sure it's a complete role swap and I still enjoy playing boomer occaisonally. But the level of micro management to achieve sub par dps compared to other classes is something I don't enjoy. With NV going an even worse state for boomer it compounds the issue even further.
Then you might say they have buffed SoTF to make that viable compared to Incarnation also that HoTW is better than NV when combined. But that completely changes us from a class that requires timing to achieve our potential to a boring dull same rotation non-cd spec. One that anyone can play without being dependant on skill or timing.

I liked that they gave us CD's as a boomer, was a massive improvement from Cata. Just feels were being pushed away from that style again though.
What I'd prefer more than anything is something that proc's like an execute (not a new ability). DoT's auto refreshing at <20% when starfire/wrath lands etc.

[Pascal]

soul of the forest sounds like it might be good now. with the NV nerf it might be time to try a sotf/hotw no burst build.

I wouldn't mind, but I think Blizzard said they wanted activated talents to beat passive talents by a small margin. At best, a passive build would be decent but not optimal. Unless, of course, they change their mind about that, like everything else ever.

[Sunfyre]

The solution for Ferals would have been to adjust the damage value for them. They've proven they can make spells have different abilities for the different roles, so instead of nerfing it across the board, just leave it on a 3min cooldown for ferals but reduce the damage increase. Blizzard has never known what to do with Druid talents, and it's been apparent since day one of MoP's announcement.

[apepi]

The solution for Ferals would have been to adjust the damage value for them. They've proven they can make spells have different abilities for the different roles, so instead of nerfing it across the board, just leave it on a 3min cooldown for ferals but reduce the damage increase. Blizzard has never known what to do with Druid talents, and it's been apparent since day one of MoP's announcement.

I like this change, it will stop people from trying to cd stack so much. I don't think just nerfing it for feral would be a good idea, it was too strong for moonkin also. I want the last druid tier to be about hybrdibablity not damage.

[Yvan]

The should let our Starsurge procs stack up at least up to three times. It ticks me off that I get a proc, then another proc instantly, but I can't use both cause I'm in the middle of casting a wrath.

[Deleted]

1) Remove the reliance of crit, it's a horrible mechanic that punishes players not in heroic BiS gear. Shooting Stars should proc randomly from all MF/SF ticks, not just MF/SF crits. Also Starsurge should extend the duration of both DoT's regardless of being a critical hit or not.

2) Buff Force of Nature to be better. For Balance it should summon a Faerie Dragon, Resto the Treants, Feral some damage companion and Guardian something that makes sense to taunt the target from you.

[Sainiunit]

Curious to see how viable FoN in. I really miss my tree buddies.

I really dislike long CDs. If this can compete with incarnation, I'll pick these guys any day. Helps so much if I'm moving around.
Just my play style I guess.

[crunk]

The should let our Starsurge procs stack up at least up to three times. It ticks me off that I get a proc, then another proc instantly, but I can't use both cause I'm in the middle of casting a wrath.

its more damage to just stop casting wrath to get a starsurge. its even more damage to stop casting starfire if you're early enough in the cast. they would never let starsurge stack like that - you think taste for blood from warriors was bad? put x3 starsurge into a kid and see what happens

[Sunfyre]

I like this change, it will stop people from trying to cd stack so much. I don't think just nerfing it for feral would be a good idea, it was too strong for moonkin also. I want the last druid tier to be about hybrdibablity not damage.

It wasn't too strong, because our non-cool down dps is subpar. If they want to nerf our cool downs they need to increase our passive damage. (Especially wrath.)

[halfawake]

Sunfyre knows what he's talking about here. Our cooldowns were a very big part of our damage. Our sustained is pretty bad atm, and a 1.5 minute nv is going to be hard to line up with lunar every 1.5 and incarnation plus lunar every other 1.5 minutes. It effectively makes incarnation longer than 3 minute cooldown if done this way. Also, cooldown stacking provides more damage than cds used separately even if done exactly 1.5 minutes apart. 1.5 minute cooldown is also much harder (or possibly not optimal) to line up with on use trinkets or synapse springs.

The only people complaining are pvpers and considering we aren't all that great there I'm not sure what the complaint is about. Even if you consider our burst to be op there, a solution that effects pvp only would be better than changing our pve mechanics and damage.

[Deleted]

Since nature's vigil lasts 30 seconds I wouldnt bother trying to line it up with stuff (When CA and INC are on cd), we can prolly catch every proc and eclipse in those 30 secs. So just use it on CD.

[Sunfyre]

Since nature's vigil lasts 30 seconds I wouldnt bother trying to line it up with stuff (When CA and INC are on cd), we can prolly catch every proc and eclipse in those 30 secs. So just use it on CD.

To min/max, you have to use it at precise moments. For example, when you know your cool downs are up for your next lunar, you sit on a Starfall, so you can triple Starfall under CD. You can't just "use on cd" and get anywhere close to maximum benefit of it.

[Varna]

So, SotF+DoC is looking viable. If it stays like this I'll be dropping NV+INC, as no doubt they'll either increase INC CD or nerf its % at some point in the future due to PvP, just to make CD stacking less favourable. They can't really change DoC or SotF re; PvP as I doubt its used much at all in PvP and INC will still stay #1 for PvP, so can almost shield yourself against PvP changes going SotF+DoC if PvE is your only flavour. We can still do the 3 starfall rotation at the pull for a bit of burst, obviously no where near INC+NV but meh, I guess we'll have to see what the stats show from PTR and if this change still goes in - fingers crossed they buff Wrath a little also.

[huth]

1) Remove the reliance of crit, it's a horrible mechanic that punishes players not in heroic BiS gear. Shooting Stars should proc randomly from all MF/SF ticks, not just MF/SF crits. Also Starsurge should extend the duration of both DoT's regardless of being a critical hit or not.

2) Buff Force of Nature to be better. For Balance it should summon a Faerie Dragon, Resto the Treants, Feral some damage companion and Guardian something that makes sense to taunt the target from you.

1) would just make you "reliant" on a different stat, probably haste, and make crit bad again, forcing everybody to regear. Really not a great idea.

2) FoN is getting buffed (by 50% for Balance from what i've seen), while the rest would just be graphical changes for the heck of it. Graphical changes that i, at least, don't support, i prefer to keep them as leafy companions.

[Alzu]

Curious to see how viable FoN in. I really miss my tree buddies.

I really dislike long CDs. If this can compete with incarnation, I'll pick these guys any day. Helps so much if I'm moving around.
Just my play style I guess.

Oh my god, please let it be ANYTHING but the trees. After cataclysm where their damage was pathetic I've avoided like a plague. I simply hate those things.

I give my vote for SotF + HotW combo.

[Deleted]

To min/max, you have to use it at precise moments. For example, when you know your cool downs are up for your next lunar, you sit on a Starfall, so you can triple Starfall under CD. You can't just "use on cd" and get anywhere close to maximum benefit of it.

I think you should read my post again.

[Juvencus]

I will support FoN as my talent choice the day it becomes castable like Mirror Images and not targetable like now ( or be very OP :P )

[earthwormjim]

its more damage to just stop casting wrath to get a starsurge. its even more damage to stop casting starfire if you're early enough in the cast. they would never let starsurge stack like that - you think taste for blood from warriors was bad? put x3 starsurge into a kid and see what happens

How could it be more damage? If you stop casting, you just spent a whole GCD doing absolutely nothing.