5.2 Disc - go Mastery, Crit, ...?

[Mctriple]

Exactly what was needed. Nerfed 25-man spirit shell without drastically changing it in 10-man (it'll still reach the hp% cap for things like unseen strike). For once, an intelligent change!

[Deleted]

The change to holy fire seems specifically made for disc - since the only possible gain you can get out of a 10 sec cd spell is coming from evangelism/archangel for which disc already uses holy fire.

Best case scenario:
- using Solace on cd instead of Holy Fire - 6% mana per minute
- shadowfiend - 8% mana per minute (though the 3 min cd makes it uncertain to quantify)
- gaining the cost of 6 holy fires: 1.8%*6=10.4% mana per minute
----------------
Adding up: 24.4% mana and some free heals at the cost of 5 extra gcds versus 14.6% mana from mindbender.

For holy, there is no situation where Solace is better than mindbender. They dont use HolyFire anyway, as it gives them nothing. All they can gain is 6% mana per minute and the around 8% (more or less depending on the duration of the fight) from shadowfiend, on a total of 14% versus 14.6%, and loosing 5 gcds.

I'm not sure I understand the info about spirit shell: I assume taking into consideration correctly Aegis means the 30%>50% but what about the crit change? How exactly did that change?

[TaurenNinja]

Thanks for input.

[HamSandwichFace]

Why wouldn't mastery be your best stat? Spirit Shell will still take into account absorbs via PoH's DA value so I don't see why it wouldn't be the best stat. DA + SS make up around 60-70% of a Disc Priests overall healing value.

[Chimaera]

Why wouldn't mastery be your best stat? Spirit Shell will still take into account absorbs via PoH's DA value so I don't see why it wouldn't be the best stat. DA + SS make up around 60-70% of a Disc Priests overall healing value.

DA is 1/3 of PoH's overall healing output(before mastery scaling). 2.5% (1 mastery) * 1/3 = .833 whereas 1 crit gives 1%. Crit is substantially better on all spells that are not poh and power word: shield. Right now the primary reason disc priests are stacking mastery is because SS scales with it.

[HamSandwichFace]

DA is 1/3 of PoH's overall healing output(before mastery scaling). 2.5% (1 mastery) * 1/3 = .833 whereas 1 crit gives 1%. Crit is substantially better on all spells that are not poh and power word: shield. Right now the primary reason disc priests are stacking mastery is because SS scales with it.

Ignoring the fact that the only spells a Priest uses in raids (at least from what I've seen from all 25 man HC encounters) are PoH, PW:S and Cascade. Our Priest, on HC Shek'zeer (a 13 minute fight) used Penance 8 times.

[Deleted]

^ 10 man is very different. I would actually say I use atonement more than I do PoH, although the healing from the latter matters far more.

[Urumii]

Our Priest, on HC Shek'zeer (a 13 minute fight) used Penance 8 times.

I highly doubt that. Check his damage done. Penance used as a damaging ability will not show up in the healing meters since it does it's healing through atonement. Those 8 Penance hits are likely during the add phase where he targetted the tank directly with penance.

If he truly only used penance 8 times, you may want to point that out because he should be using it mostly on CD. It's a large source of healing, damage, and evangelism stacks.

[Deleted]

Aside spirit shell phases, I'm using penance on cd, but unless I want a quick stack of grace on the tank if he takes/is going to take a dive, I use it offensively for evangelism stacking. It's also a case of how sure you can be atonement will land on the tank, since its a smart spell. If no raid member is significantly lower than the tank, you can pretty much be sure atonement will hit the tank - and with 5 evangelism up, it hits pretty nice.

So yes, a lot of my penances show as atonement.

[HamSandwichFace]

On Shek'zeer we have Pallies + Priests AoE healing, we have Mistweavers tank healing.

[Deleted]

On Shek'zeer we have Pallies + Priests AoE healing, we have Mistweavers tank healing.

And that means that your priest is technically hardly ever thinking of using penance as a heal, and can just use it to dps? You should check his atonement numbers. Not that I follow the whole "mistweaver tank healing" thing, my notions of mistweavers might be slim, but weren't they supposed to be quite weak tank healers? Ours run like hell from tank healing. Also, are you talking about the normal or the hc version? I know nothing about the hc, so not commenting in that.

[HamSandwichFace]

I was speaking about HC.

Atonement (for the Priest who topped with 100k ehps, likewise the other Mistweaver and I did 65k ehps) healed for 2.9% total. SS, DA and PoH made up 82% of her overall healing done with PW:S pulling in 8.1% and PoM pulling in 2.4%.

It must be fun playing a class which does 90% of it's entire healing with 2 spells.

[Deleted]

I was speaking about HC.

Atonement (for the Priest who topped with 100k ehps, likewise the other Mistweaver and I did 65k ehps) healed for 2.9% total. SS, DA and PoH made up 82% of her overall healing done with PW:S pulling in 8.1% and PoM pulling in 2.4%.

It must be fun playing a class which does 90% of it's entire healing with 2 spells.

Must be fun being clueless enough to think that we just use two spells to do those 90%. I'm pressing more buttons on my disc than I've done on any other class I've raided with. You also think that you should do even close to as much as the discs if you are tankhealing and they are raidhealing?

[HamSandwichFace]

Must be fun being clueless enough to think that we just use two spells to do those 90%. I'm pressing more buttons on my disc than I've done on any other class I've raided with. You also think that you should do even close to as much as the discs if you are tankhealing and they are raidhealing?

They healed the tanks for more than the Mistweaver and I did.

On HC Shek'zeer we tank heal via fistweaving.

[HPLathus]

Mastery, why? Because we are PoH bots plain and simple. Regardless of the nerf on spirit shell, you now will still be getting 40k DA procs + a 100k spirit shell shield.

SO really its not going to affect us much at all unless you are using SS with single target heals.

So yes, stack mastery..

/thread

[Deleted]

They healed the tanks for more than the Mistweaver and I did.

On HC Shek'zeer we tank heal via fistweaving.

It's really cute how you manage to ignore the majority of every post I write and yet end up being incorrect, you healed the tanks more than the priests in the logs you've provided. Now since you are entirely clueless regarding the mechanics of disc priests at least stay out of any thread discussing this, I would love if you just could stay away from our forum entirely but that seems impossible for you.

[HamSandwichFace]

It's really cute how you manage to ignore the majority of every post I write and yet end up being incorrect, you healed the tanks more than the priests in the logs you've provided. Now since you are entirely clueless regarding the mechanics of disc priests at least stay out of any thread discussing this, I would love if you just could stay away from our forum entirely but that seems impossible for you.

Disc is overpowered. It needs to be balanced, otherwise the next tier is going to be a boring Priest-fest.

[Meaks]

Disc is overpowered. It needs to be balanced, otherwise the next tier is going to be a boring Priest-fest.

If the next raid tier is full of low damage periods that can be snipe healed with atonement followed by a large raid burst damage on precisely a predictable 1 minute cd, then yes disc will likely be very strong. This might be true for HoF - where the fights are seemingly perfectly designed to align with Discs tools. This is much less the case in TOES. It is also much less the case in 10man (SS caps, holy pal's seem to be about even). But it seems like you only care about healing meters on 25H Shek'zeer. There are 63 other encounters. Meter watching is super fun, is that why you rolled a monk at the beginning of this raid tier?

Also I still don't understand why you are posting in priest forums. You are not a priest. You are not adding anything positive or constructive to the conversations. You have frequently shown that you do not understand priest mechanics. Your primary arguments are entirely based on anecdotal evidence in your one single raid, and primarily concerned with healing meters. If spirit shell instead was a raid wall and wasn't showing up on the meters, would you be complaining as much as you are now? I'm sure there is a giant QQ thread somewhere in the monk forums about 25man nerfs for mistweavers (I haven't checked, because I'm not a monk.) Also when monks were blatantly OP and disc was awful I did not constantly troll monk forums like you are doing here.

[HamSandwichFace]

I actually think Mistweavers are good. Hopefully the changes in 5.2 wont be limited primarily to PvP and we'll have a few PvE changes (Jab is getting nerfed unfortunately, increased mana cost) but the issue isn't that Disc is good in "certain" situations, Disc is good in every situation.

Sure, you could argue all I care about is a healing meter but let me ask you this question (and imagine you're doing heroic content). You need to bring 4 healers to a fight so that you have a chance to meet the hard enrage (in this tier, 6 encounters of 16 were 4 healed, 2 are 7+ healed, the rest can be done with 5-6 healers, but normally lower rather than more). Which healers do you bring to an encounter (ignoring the mechanics because each class practically works the same now)?

You can argue (rather effectively) that a healing meter doesn't matter much. That's not what I'm arguing. I'm arguing the following:

> Disc has too many raid CDs
> Disc doesn't (and will continue not to) experience mana issues
> Absorbs are too powerful and ruin fights
> In a competitive scene you stack a class which is OP or shines on a certain fight (Will of the Emperor's 4 mage 3 DK tactic as an example)

As a healer who raids at a somewhat competitive and hardcore nature, I worry because when I look at a fight I try to think what my class does which no-one else can do (and to the credit of Blizzard a few fights in t14 have a niche for Monks): Shek'zeer with dispells (via Revival), Tsulong with dispells (via revival), Spirit Kings heroic (Meng's crazed state). As I stated previously, most of the 'high level' raiding Priests are saying these changes are pretty much negligible. The math for Rapture shows that using Rapture 2 or 3 more times in a fight will equal the exact same mana returns as current (even with stacked MTTs) and that the overall nerf to SS is nothing more than a 3-5% throughput nerf.

I'm merely comparing these nerfs to the nerfs Mistweavers took (and I agree that Mistweavers did need one).

As for the thread? The thread is stupid. Any Disc Priest who's intelligent will still go for Mastery because PoH and PW:S make up around 85-90% of a Priest's entire effective healing and both gain from the mastery 100% of the time, generally with 100% effectiveness.

[Deleted]

> Disc has too many raid CDs

If you include SS as a raid CD, sure. I'm not sure Blizz intended it as such (given the duration and CD) and I expect further changes (nerfs) before 5.2 launches.

> Disc doesn't (and will continue not to) experience mana issues

From your perspective, in your raid. It is perfectly possible to OOM as Disc in a 10 man with no resto shaman (assuming it's progress and on the limits of what is possible-any farm raid is irrelevant since you and/or the raid outgear it by definition)

> Absorbs are too powerful and ruin fights

Perhaps. This point might be worthy of more discussion. Ever stop to think that fights are actually designed around having those absorbs though?

> In a competitive scene you stack a class which is OP or shines on a certain fight (Will of the Emperor's 4 mage 3 DK tactic as an example)

Quit whining and get used to it. Class stacking has been a feature of progress raiding since, well, always. Something has to be top/most effective. Some classes deliver their damage in a manner suited to a fight/phase/whatever. Get used to it.

I feel it's probably worth pointing out that your opinions here are poorly valued (opinion based on the feedback to your posts) due to several factors:

You whine too much.
You seem to focus 99% of your attention on the fact you as a monk are no longer the biggest meter whore.
You either do not play/understand priest properly (if you did, some of the WoL facts you have delivered might have actually been accurate)
You raid world Top 25 and 25 man. 99.9%+ of raiders raid 10's/outside the top 25.