Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst ...
3
4
5
6
7
LastLast
  1. #81
    Warchief DiscoGhost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Behind the Pillar
    Posts
    2,219
    now fix disc and i can go back to rmp
    You can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Delighted View Post
    The reason beacuse rogues are underrepresented is not damage. The class is boring as hell and blizzard invoking abillties with multiple effects such ss Hit'n Run is a great way towards the right direction. Im not saying Hit'n Run will be super useful but its an appealing and cool abillity.
    Nah, boring is just another thing coming atop all the other problems. Just look at the abilities rogue got, a tiny damage buff by doing shadow damage instead pf physical as 87 talent and mostly passive junk for 90. Other classes got great new utility like symbiosis, pala blind and so on and fairly nice ultimates, rogues didn't.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Nah, boring is just another thing coming atop all the other problems. Just look at the abilities rogue got, a tiny damage buff by doing shadow damage instead pf physical as 87 talent and mostly passive junk for 90. Other classes got great new utility like symbiosis, pala blind and so on and fairly nice ultimates, rogues didn't.
    It not just that most talent trees gave classes many new powerful abilities throughout the tree, rogues every tier is what 3 abilities I had before to do I get to pick 1 of or what new trash useless thing do I get to pick....

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    It not just that most talent trees gave classes many new powerful abilities throughout the tree, rogues every tier is what 3 abilities I had before to do I get to pick 1 of or what new trash useless thing do I get to pick....
    Well yeah, that's also weird. Before rogues used to have these abilities anyway, now they often get to pick only one of them, where in case of other classes they can pick the ability they had before OR an alternative.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    t. i play ret. being a hybrid doesn't make paladin any less deserving of a viable dps spec.
    If melee becomes total shit, Paladins can go holy and still be viable. And if holy becomes shit, they can go ret.

    If rogues become shit, all they can become is a different type of shit.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    Just look at the abilities rogue got, a tiny damage buff by doing shadow damage instead pf physical as 87 talent and mostly passive junk for 90. Other classes got great new utility like symbiosis, pala blind and so on and fairly nice ultimates, rogues didn't.
    +1, seriously shadowblades is probably the worst addition any class got this expansion. Just take a look on ench shamans Ascention - makes autoattacks ranged, makes SS ranged, interacts with mastery. Shadowblades is a joke of ability, seriously.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    If melee becomes total shit, Paladins can go holy and still be viable. And if holy becomes shit, they can go ret.

    If rogues become shit, all they can become is a different type of shit.
    lol. why would i go holy when i play ret? ret has even more right to be viable because paladins are so limited in their dps spec, and ret certainly has a right to be stronger in arena then it is because its so unwelcome in rbgs, unlike rogues.

    all i see out of rogues is "halp can't gibb people in cheap shot anymore, class is borked" the problem is that warriors do everything that rogues do better then rogues do it. and thats a problem with warriors, not with rogues.

    a better fix for rogues would be to fix disc priests and allow RMP to be competitive again, a better fix for rogues would be to tone down warriors and allow rogues who still remember how to control the opposing team shine again. a class having a bad season and then feeling entitled to massive unbalanced buffs is why we have such huge issues with warriors right now.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  8. #88
    Kosechi, please stop derailing the thread. It is about rogues. If they'll be too powerful, how they are now, etc. NOT about ret. No one in this thread gives a shit about rets besides knowing that they are more than viable and more than fine RIGHT NOW unlike rogues. That's where discussion with you stops. And that's where we continue discussing why rogue 5.2 buffs look like they'll be too good or just good enough or not enough.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-31 at 02:34 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyaldee View Post
    +1, seriously shadowblades is probably the worst addition any class got this expansion. Just take a look on ench shamans Ascention - makes autoattacks ranged, makes SS ranged, interacts with mastery. Shadowblades is a joke of ability, seriously.
    Shadow blades really buffed up combat heavily. Besides that, it's another offensive cd to a class that didn't really need them much. Rogue burst right now is right up there with warriors and hunters. The problem is they lost a lot of things they shouldn't have such as crit modifiers without any compensation. They also randomly decided rogues don't deserve reduced cds on the most important abilities they have leaving them even more nerfed. I'd have to say that the transition from cata to mop for rogues has to be the single most massive nerf to any class in this game.

    That's not to say though that the buffs coming in 5.2 are all warranted. Some of the ideas are stupid, over the top and unnecessary. Others I can understand. Prep baseline? Not a great idea. I know rogues have been asking for it for a long time and it's "mandatory" but we should be moving away from cd reducing cds. Readiness and cold snap don't belong in the current pvp game either. Reduced cds on the other hand do. No one likes being reliant on a 5 minute cd for marginal defenses (see: warriors, rets and mages). Blizzard has circumvented this through adding random other tools. We need to lose some of these tools both for reducing homogenization and for reducing the amount of bloat we have in this game.

    Not every class should have every tool for every situation. That's the entire point of an MMO and team play. That's the kind of position rogues are in right now. With major weaknesses that are made up by other classes. The problem is, this ideal isn't consistent across other classes and most if not all other classes have the tools of a rogue and more.

    That was a bit of a tangent.

    Marked for death: I like it. Great idea but quite a small buff I'd say. Great rogues can use it to great results.
    Rogue transcendence: unoriginal and overpowered.
    Prep: in the current pvp game I'd say it's fine and has been a long time coming. I'd love to see it and similar abilities removed though.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
    i7-860 @2.8GHz | Radeon HD 7770 | 8GB DDR3-1333MHz | Corsair CX 430W |

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    Kosechi, please stop derailing the thread. It is about rogues. If they'll be too powerful, how they are now, etc. NOT about ret. No one in this thread gives a shit about rets besides knowing that they are more than viable and more than fine RIGHT NOW unlike rogues. That's where discussion with you stops. And that's where we continue discussing why rogue 5.2 buffs look like they'll be too good or just good enough or not enough.
    i'm not derailing lol, i'm pointing out that your all the rogue tears we are currently inundated with are absolute bosh.

    prep baseline is moronic, prep-like abilities in general are moronic, and you end up with classes and specs balanced around them, and thats miserable. if they wanted to make something baseline out of the talent trees, they should have made shadow step baseline it would have helped with rogues mobility issues. if they wanted to make fixes to cloak and vanish they should have given them charges or shortened their cds. every single change looks to be returning rogues to their S11, gear scaled idiocy.

    cloak and dagger looks insanely overpowered. at least with enhance their ranged strikes are on a significant cooldown, its going to make pillaring and ranging rogues to escape damage even harder
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  10. #90
    overbuffed, if you think otherwise you're kidding yourself really.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamez View Post
    overbuffed, if you think otherwise you're kidding yourself really.
    Yes, Id be surprised if all changes made it to live, the Vigor one in particular.

  12. #92
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    4,624
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryft View Post
    Yes, Id be surprised if all changes made it to live, the Vigor one in particular.
    Hmm I wouldn't be too surprised. It's kinda obvious that they are going to overbuff rogues on purpose to make more people play the class.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    If melee becomes total shit, Paladins can go holy and still be viable. And if holy becomes shit, they can go ret.

    If rogues become shit, all they can become is a different type of shit.
    Thanks for the sig haha
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    If rogues become shit, all they can become is a different type of shit.

  14. #94
    I think we'll be a class again in pvp. Right now we are not.

    Prep baseline is about the best thing possible that could happen to the class.

    Points of worry:

    >Cloak and Dagger sounds like it turns shadowdance into avatar (several times during dance you will be able to port directly to your opponent). This seems like the sort of thing (dps cooldown making you unpeelable) that they were trying to move away from. It's also VASTLY more powerful with sub than the other specs, as sub has more openers. While powerful, this seems like a bad plan. The other thing in the notes (the datamined notes) was a temporary teleport with a pull-back feature, Hit and Run. Or they may go with something different, or find a way to make Cloak and Dagger better while also making it not have shadow dance synergy.

    >Shuriken Toss as listed seems hella baller. It reduces autoattack damage by 20%, but then makes all your damage shadow damage. A reasonable mitigation amount for a plate warrior is 40% ish, meaning that this represents a 33% increase in autoattack damage versus such a target (versus about doubled average damage during shadow blades), which is pretty pleasing for a full uptime ability. Presumably the 20% less damage is chosen such that maintaining this buff is either not a buff, or not on par with anticipation in pve. In any event, this will be an amazing change for rogues, but I'm worried it will be tweaked to be negligible- it would be lame to shuriken throw at range, and then have to macro off the buff once you are in melee with someone. This is the change I am the second-most excited about.

    > Marked for Death is better than versatility, but isn't exactly exciting sounding, and relies heavily on adds dying in a staggered way to work right in pve, while probably not outshining ST in pvp.


    Rogues should be a playable class, and have a real rep in 5.2. It's a shame that they deleted us for an entire season. 5.1 should have had many more buffs.

  15. #95
    Rogues crying after cata is gone... alright cya next season fotm-ers- till then play your warrior and feral druid- Peace out.
    And for the record I am super glad rogues are nerfed into the ground, because of the s11 rogues.
    afflocks that cry about balance in pvp make me sad.

  16. #96
    Rogues will be viable because Warriors return to Cata-Style.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by kosechi View Post
    prep baseline is moronic, prep-like abilities in general are moronic, and you end up with classes and specs balanced around them, and thats miserable.
    Well shoot, how am I supposed to feel, seeing as how I totally with kosechi on a rogue issue?

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfdragon View Post
    Rogues crying after cata is gone... alright cya next season fotm-ers- till then play your warrior and feral druid- Peace out.
    And for the record I am super glad rogues are nerfed into the ground, because of the s11 rogues.
    Rogues and Mages have always been complained about by mediocre to average players for as long as I have been playing, and most of the time it was not warranted. Rogues were fine in S11 IF they did not have PvE items. Legendary daggers and Heroic trinkets are what made S11 horrible when fighting Rogues, and casters with Cunning as well. In general it has always been PvE items that have made certain classes too powerful.

    Prep baseline is kinda dumb, they should just halve the cooldowns (probably not Dismantle though) and remove Prep altogether. Double Cloak is absurd against some comps even now when they do not get Shadowstep and suffer from the lower mobility. The changes are still not nearly enough to make them on the level of Warriors pre-nerfs which is a good thing, people are overreacting.

  19. #99
    While rogues were too good in one season in memory (the last Cata season), that difference is substantially less than, say, how overrepped warriors are throughout all of this patch. Warriors this patch are better than rogues have ever been in any season. That makes this season substantially less balanced. Also, rogues now are far far too low.

    If you are glad that rogues got nerfed this much, I'm glad you don't design games, because you really are clueless.

    Prep baseline is kinda dumb, they should just halve the cooldowns (probably not Dismantle though) and remove Prep altogether.
    Eeeeh. I really like baseline prep. If it's honestly too good, I wouldn't be super sad if they left it baseline, scratched it from arena (like lay on hands), and then buffed to compensate. I like the prep playstyle a whole lot. It's not even remotely the same thing as lower cooldowns.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by OMGITSDOT View Post
    Rogues and Mages have always been complained about by mediocre to average players for as long as I have been playing, and most of the time it was not warranted. Rogues were fine in S11 IF they did not have PvE items. Legendary daggers and Heroic trinkets are what made S11 horrible when fighting Rogues, and casters with Cunning as well. In general it has always been PvE items that have made certain classes too powerful.
    rogues could easily succeed with out pve items, and quite a few did get gladiator and R1 titles with even setting foot in DS, let alone having daggers/vial. all they did was make already powerful classes even more powerful.

    the thing with pve items is that it lowers the skill required to play a class. a competent 2.2k rogues who doesn't always get their cc chain or burst quite right would benefit a lot more from the increased damage of daggers and vial because it makes every cc and stun that much more powerful and it could easily push him out of the 2.2k bracket and into the 2.4k bracket or even 2.6k on a bad battlegroup. a rogue who was already a glad caliber player didn't need that because they didn't need the extra wiggle room in their ccs and burst opportunities to be effective.

    the pve items where not the whole problem last season, rogue mechanics were as much to blame as the pve gear was and they needed to have a large portion of their control and damage toolkit gutted in order to prevent that kind of scaling from happening again.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •